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  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6949

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #260 on: May 20, 2023, 06:44:41 pm »
That could happen... but it won't. You could be struck by lightning and die... but you won't. Do you understand statistical odds?

At the time the travel advisory was issued - mid 2019,

Venezuela: 60.3
USA: 5.1

But the stats for that year weren't even out yet, so the government was going off of

Venezuela: 81.4
USA: 5

When UK economic trouble was in the news, Ugandan dictator Idi Amin trolled them by televising a fundraiser asking for donations to help the struggling people of Britain. Similar situation here. It's like when RT, a channel funded by the Russian government, made programs about problems in the United States. Never a peep about bad things in Russia though. It's propaganda. Like Venezuela, Russia's an autocracy. Not democratic. Not free.
It happens. Numbers can't disguise that.

The US's gun problem is not propaganda.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6949

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #261 on: May 20, 2023, 06:45:33 pm »
I find it odd how one would find comfort in comparing one's country to some of the worst places in the world for gun related deafs in comparatively undeveloped countries.
Whistling past the graveyard?


  • Adel
  • The Legend

    • 2546

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #262 on: May 21, 2023, 03:40:10 am »
Whistling past the graveyard?
Perhaps it could work as an election slogan on the right!


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • 🇰🇷
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #263 on: May 22, 2023, 08:18:26 am »
Found an article that explains why Venezuela and Uruguay posted travel advisories against travelling in the US.

Apparently it was in response to a particularly bad weekend with several high mortality mass shootings.
Also, the travel advisories mentioned a few particular cities which its citizens ought to avoid (Detroit, Baltimore and Albuquerque) due to the fact that all 3 made the top 20 most dangerous cities in the world according to the CEOworld Magazine 2019 index.


I imagine that in Venezuela's case, at least, there was a bit of tit-for-tat involved, as there had been some political friction between the 2 countries at the time.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/06/americas/venezuela-uruguay-travel-warnings-us/index.html


Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #264 on: May 22, 2023, 11:42:06 am »
I should also add, that while I agree these warnings are often contextual and even murder rates can be misleading, if you genuinely think Venezuela is safer than the U.S., you're a non-believer in facts.

Thinking something like that is akin to that one backpacking couple that got seized by terrorists. Basically, they drank a bit too much of the Kool-Aid and thought all the terrorism stuff was just racism and some awful fantasy cooked up by war-mongering white people. They even treated their abduction at first as a sort of "adventure." There's video of how it turned out and the screams at the end showed the moment when reality slammed up against political argument in the form of a 7.6239 slamming into their skulls.

Are there parts of Venezuela much safer than the U.S.? Absolutely. Is a travel advisory wrong? Nope. Are you mistaken if you think Venezuela as a whole is safer than the U.S. because of U.S. gun laws? Yes.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2023, 01:02:26 pm by JonVoightCar »


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • 🇰🇷
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #265 on: May 22, 2023, 12:01:33 pm »
I should also add, that while I agree these warnings are often contextual and even murder rates can be misleading, if you genuinely think Venezuela is safer than the U.S., you're an idiot.... Are there parts of Venezuela much safer than the U.S.? Absolutely. Is a travel advisory wrong? Nope. Are you smoking crack if you think Venezuela as a whole is safer than the U.S. because of U.S. gun laws? Yes.
I don't think anybody here has put forward the idea that Venezuela is less dangerous than the USA.

However, by framing the question like this and saying that people who believe it area idiots, you're implying that some of the posters here think that way. This kind of  aggressive  strawmanning immediately puts people's backs up, and is counter-productive to your own arguments (as people will tend to consider the rest of your post in a hostile light).

I also know that you're aware of all this, so I wonder why you do it. When you have an argument, why not just make it straight away rather than riling people up first?


  • Mithras
  • Super Waygook

    • 397

    • June 28, 2022, 01:57:07 pm
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #266 on: May 22, 2023, 12:04:30 pm »
When you have an argument, why not just make it straight away rather than riling people up first?

New here?


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • 🇰🇷
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #267 on: May 22, 2023, 12:41:07 pm »
Occasionally.


Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #268 on: May 22, 2023, 01:01:34 pm »
I don't think anybody here has put forward the idea that Venezuela is less dangerous than the USA.

However, by framing the question like this and saying that people who believe it area idiots, you're implying that some of the posters here think that way. This kind of  aggressive  strawmanning immediately puts people's backs up, and is counter-productive to your own arguments (as people will tend to consider the rest of your post in a hostile light).

I also know that you're aware of all this, so I wonder why you do it. When you have an argument, why not just make it straight away rather than riling people up first?
I mean what would you call someone who sees the actual murder rate of Venezuela and the murder rate of the U.S. and concludes Venezuela is safer? We're not talking a marginal difference, we're talking several tiers worth of difference. Pointing out the ridiculousness of such a conception in harsh terms might be a touch poor in manners, though certainly not beyond what those here are in practice of doling out themselves, but what it lacks in kindness, perhaps it makes up for in directness? Regardless, I have been admonished on this before and did agree to attempt to refrain in the future. I will change it now.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • 🇰🇷
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #269 on: May 22, 2023, 01:09:14 pm »
I mean what would you call someone who sees the actual murder rate of Venezuela and the murder rate of the U.S. and concludes Venezuela is safer?
I would call them imaginary. Fictitious. Nonexistent on waygook.org.
Hence my comment.  :smiley:

And danke.  :smiley:


  • Adel
  • The Legend

    • 2546

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #270 on: May 22, 2023, 02:12:52 pm »


Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #271 on: May 22, 2023, 02:23:37 pm »
I would call them imaginary. Fictitious. Nonexistent on waygook.org.
Hence my comment.  :smiley:

And danke.  :smiley:

I mean, SPQR did post this.

Quote
The more time Venezuelans and Uruguayans spend in any OECD contry except the United States, the much more safer they'll be.


  • Jethro Bodine
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1161

    • November 02, 2022, 12:10:43 pm
    • ce-ment pond
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #272 on: May 22, 2023, 02:25:55 pm »
Here's a weird one Adel! I had a dream about you last night. We were sitting on sand dunes watching some surfers catch a few massive waves. Can't remember what we were talking...just shooting the breeze. We were eating sticks of sherbet wrapped in stripped marshmallow. They looked like sticks of mini dynamite and even had a wick made of thin gummy stuff...you know that sugary sour stuff they sell here. Absolutely bizarre! I don't even know what you look like IRL.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • 🇰🇷
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #273 on: May 22, 2023, 02:40:59 pm »
I mean, SPQR did post this.

Hmm. Ok. True. But!:

1. SPQR
2. The term "much more safer" was used unironically so none of the rest counts.


Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #274 on: May 25, 2023, 11:51:53 am »
Here's a weird one Adel! I had a dream about you last night. We were sitting on sand dunes watching some surfers catch a few massive waves. Can't remember what we were talking...just shooting the breeze. We were eating sticks of sherbet wrapped in stripped marshmallow. They looked like sticks of mini dynamite and even had a wick made of thin gummy stuff...you know that sugary sour stuff they sell here. Absolutely bizarre! I don't even know what you look like IRL.

Okay, but what did Adel look like in your dream?


  • Jethro Bodine
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1161

    • November 02, 2022, 12:10:43 pm
    • ce-ment pond
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #275 on: May 25, 2023, 12:13:01 pm »
Okay, but what did Adel look like in your dream?

I'm not totally sure but he seemed a bit taller than me...maybe 5'10 or so...but we were sitting and he was above and to the side on a dune. He also seemed solid but not really muscular or fat (and he had hairy legs). His face was a face I recognized but can't describe accurately...not round...longer and more oval, with collar length light brown or sandy hair. Kind of a beach face, if you know what I mean. Strange but a cool dream. I do love my dreaming  :smiley:


Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #276 on: May 25, 2023, 03:37:01 pm »
I'm not totally sure but he seemed a bit taller than me...maybe 5'10 or so...but we were sitting and he was above and to the side on a dune. He also seemed solid but not really muscular or fat (and he had hairy legs). His face was a face I recognized but can't describe accurately...not round...longer and more oval, with collar length light brown or sandy hair. Kind of a beach face, if you know what I mean. Strange but a cool dream. I do love my dreaming  :smiley:



It's funny how dreams work.

I wanna dream about you guys, too. Then we can compare notes about what we all look like.

I'm sure August would be a talking llama.


  • Adel
  • The Legend

    • 2546

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #277 on: May 26, 2023, 06:04:18 am »
Well this thread has taken a strange turn.  :huh:
I suggest we go back to talking about cheese.


Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #278 on: May 26, 2023, 12:39:23 pm »
I agree, McDonald's McGriddles wouldn't taste right without the cheese.


  • Augustiner
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1584

    • December 06, 2021, 01:18:06 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Right-wing gunmen
« Reply #279 on: May 26, 2023, 02:51:45 pm »


It's funny how dreams work.

I wanna dream about you guys, too. Then we can compare notes about what we all look like.

I'm sure August would be a talking llama.

I would like to know where the llama angle came in.