Right-wing gunmen

 The way you change your tune reminds me of Michael Bolton changing musical genres
until he found one he could succeed in.

Hahaha

laugh at us for I don't know, our crap cheese or whatever.

US cheese is nothing to sneer at! It's won plenty of awards over the years.
Wisconsin cheddar in particular, I believe, is very well regarded, globally.

Unfortunately, that fact is often overshadowed by the existance of that processed, individually wrapped abomination that American food standard committes for some reason allow to be called cheese. 

I mean, it has its place, sure, but its popularity gives the US a bad reputation, cheese-wise.

US cheese is nothing to sneer at! It's won plenty of awards over the years.
Wisconsin cheddar in particular, I believe, is very well regarded, globally.

Unfortunately, that fact is often overshadowed by the existance of that processed, individually wrapped abomination that American food standard committes for some reason allow to be called cheese. 

I mean, it has its place, sure, but its popularity gives the US a bad reputation, cheese-wise.

Ekshully, they don't.  The Kraft American Singles to which you refer are officially labeled "pasteurized prepared cheese product".  And, whatever their flaws, make for a very good grilled cheese sandwich.

Like I said, they have their place.

And I wasn't aware that theyre not allowed to be called actual cheese. Cool. Guess all that campaigning paid off! 

That's funny dude, your cultural nuance and understanding of this part of the world is sublime.
But back on point, I guess the victims of guns massacres and those homeless folk would draw a lot comfort from their freedoms and Marti's post here on Waygooks. 
Were they some of you relatives in the previous picture?

Australia has no homeless?

Anyways, everything has a trade off. Part of the cost of defending our vassal states like Australia is that we have to spend on defense what we would otherwise on social programs. But hey, at least we get to keep them in line and they have to follow our think-tank policies while their people delude themselves that they are free.

However I think not having to be used as cannon fodder by some trash Empire is worth some gun deaths. That and being able to set our own foreign policy. Also, were anyone to try and invade they would find it an impossible task.

Many of these countries (including Australia and Korea) are like spoiled child that thinks its where it is on its own, not because mommy and daddy are putting in all the hard work. At least in Korea's case it actually is attempting to pay that back by developing a robust defense industry and keeping ammunition stocks at a healthy level.

Anyways, you win. You have Yahoo Serious and that one band that plays the same chord over and over again.

I really should read one of your posts one day Marti. 

America will never have the fascist gun control that Kyndo and Mr C crave. Gun toting states like new Hampshire and Maine will always have lower murder rates than authoritarian poop holes like... Belgium? Belgium is more violent than peaceful Maine? But... guns... Maine has concealed carry, why isn't everyone dead?

Ekshully, they don't.  The Kraft American Singles to which you refer are officially labeled "pasteurized prepared cheese product".  And, whatever their flaws, make for a very good grilled cheese sandwich.

I think Kraft singles and Spam continue to be increasingly shunned
in western countries but continue to grow in Korea's wonderful culinary
domain.

America will never have the fascist gun control that Kyndo and Mr C crave. Gun toting states like new Hampshire and Maine will always have lower murder rates than authoritarian poop holes like... Belgium? Belgium is more violent than peaceful Maine? But... guns... Maine has concealed carry, why isn't everyone dead?

I think the people in different nations have different values and codes
of conduct on how they view and interact with other people in their
countries. Most western countries accept the need to pull together and
supply healthcare and pensions to their populations. The States is a more
"dog eat dog" system where you scramble to survive at the cost of other
people. Perhaps this social alienation makes it easier for people to gun
down others.

Canada also has a lot of guns per capita, but has MUCH fewer mass
shootings.

Therefore it boils down to the fact that some countries just should not
have access to guns. The USA, unfortunately, is in this group.

America will never have the fascist gun control that Kyndo and Mr C crave. Gun toting states like new Hampshire and Maine will always have lower murder rates than authoritarian poop holes like... Belgium? Belgium is more violent than peaceful Maine? But... guns... Maine has concealed carry, why isn't everyone dead?

I'm not sure what your point is here--wasn't this about guns?

I mean, in Belgium in 2016 (the last year I could easily find) about 108,000 people died, 173 of which were gun-related.  That is 0.15% of deaths that year. ( https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/18/total_number_of_gun_deaths , https://www.statista.com/statistics/516846/number-of-deaths-in-belgium/ )

In Maine in 2021 (the last year I could easily find), 16,000 people died, and 178 of those deaths were gun-related.  That's 1.1% of Mainer's deaths related to guns (  https://legislature.maine.gov/doc/9742 ) 

So, about the same number of deaths, but Belgium has quite a bit larger population.  Did you take that into account?

Hasn't this thread moved on to processed cheese?

Total Maine firearm deaths 2016: 123 (suicides: 112, homicides: N/A)

Most gun violence is suicide. Would a suicidal person not commit suicide if there's not a gun? No, in most cases other methods would be used. For example, South Korea - a place without guns - has a higher suicide rate than the United States. Earlier in this thread it was noted that after Australia's gun grab, gun suicides went down. Yes, that happened, but it meant people killed themselves in other ways. Hanging sucides went up.

From a more recent publication:

In Maine, 89% of gun deaths are suicides and 7% are homicides.

- - -

Homicides per 100k:

Belgium: 1.8

Maine: 1.6

New Hampshire: 0.9

All are low.

The common denominator: not many Bloods and Crips living in Belgium ... or Maine ... or New Hampshire ... or Canada ... or Australia ... or South Korea.

I'm not sure what your point is here--wasn't this about guns?

I mean, in Belgium in 2016 (the last year I could easily find) about 108,000 people died, 173 of which were gun-related.  That is 0.15% of deaths that year. ( https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compareyears/18/total_number_of_gun_deaths , https://www.statista.com/statistics/516846/number-of-deaths-in-belgium/ )

In Maine in 2021 (the last year I could easily find), 16,000 people died, and 178 of those deaths were gun-related.  That's 1.1% of Mainer's deaths related to guns (  https://legislature.maine.gov/doc/9742 ) 

So, about the same number of deaths, but Belgium has quite a bit larger population.  Did you take that into account?

I notice this common mistake made by both sides, but more so on the anti-gun side and that is confusing murder rate and fatal shooting rate.

Murder is what indicates dangerous and criminal, not shootings.

I notice this common mistake made by both sides, but more so on the anti-gun side and that is confusing murder rate and fatal shooting rate.

Murder is what indicates dangerous and criminal, not shootings. Only a dimwit would confuse/conflate the two.

Well, the "dimwit" in question argued that more guns should mean more people are dead: "Why isn't everyone dead?" he asked.  I answered.  And you have no room in this forum to call anyone a dimwit, even shaneberry.

"A can of beer, a semi-automatic pistol and a dune buggy were factors in a deadly confrontation in Florida on Friday.

A Florida man allegedly threw a beer can as a dune buggy passed him, then fatally shot the driver after a confrontation, according to court records.When the two men were within four feet of each other, Kirkland allegedly shot the man in the chest with a Ruger semi-automatic pistol, prompting the victim to say “he couldn't believe” Wallace Kirkland shot him, according to the affidavit.

Witnesses to the incident told authorities they could not see any weapons in the victim's hand, and the affidavit noted that the victim was both “outnumbered and physically smaller” than Kirkland and his neighbor."

Bullies and guns don't mix. Plus, imagine thinking you needed to carry a semi-automatic weapon on a walk around your neighborhood. Mr. Rogers, this ain't.

LI mentioned the connection between suicide and guns above, a well-known fact that is an argument for and not against gun safety laws. It seems getting in a beef with an asshat neighbor is a new way to commit suicide.

Total Maine firearm deaths 2016: 123 (suicides: 112, homicides: N/A)

The common denominator: not many Bloods and Crips living in Belgium ... or Maine ... or New Hampshire ... or Canada ... or Australia ... or South Korea.

Gang-related homicides only account for about 13% of total homicides, according to the FBI and DOJ.

https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/survey-analysis/measuring-the-extent-of-gang-problems

Most gun violence is suicide. Would a suicidal person not commit suicide if there's not a gun? No, in most cases other methods would be used. For example, South Korea - a place without guns - has a higher suicide rate than the United States...
From a more recent publication:

In Maine, 89% of gun deaths are suicides and 7% are homicides.

Great news for Maine, I guess. Not so great for the rest of the country.

In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458).

About eight-in-ten U.S. murders in 2021 – 20,958 out of 26,031, or 81% – involved a firearm. That marked the highest percentage since at least 1968, the earliest year for which the CDC has online records. More than half of all suicides in 2021 – 26,328 out of 48,183, or 55% – also involved a gun, the highest percentage since 2001.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

Earlier in this thread it was noted that after Australia's gun grab, gun suicides went down. Yes, that happened, but it meant people killed themselves in other ways. Hanging sucides went up.

Australia's gun buyback program took place from late '96 to late '97. Since then the suicide rate has been consistently lower than in previous years.

https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/data/deaths-by-suicide-in-australia/suicide-deaths-over-time

Recent FBI homicide data (2019). Gun-related deaths:

Narcotic-related: 500
Robbery: 422
Domestic Violence: 62
Argument over money or property: 88
Other arguments (not related to felony crimes): 2,274
Gangland killings: 537
Other (not specified): 1,096

Total murder victims: 13, 927
By firearm: 10,258

Obviously gangs and crime play a big role in gun deaths, but not to the proportional extent that some would like us to believe. At least not to an extent that justifies the kind of matter-of-fact pronouncements of which L I is so fond. People like L I should really stop distorting the facts. It makes one question their motives.



 

Recent FBI homicide data (2019). Gun-related deaths:

Narcotic-related: 500
Robbery: 422
Domestic Violence: 62
Argument over money or property: 88
Other arguments (not related to felony crimes): 2,274
Gangland killings: 537
Other (not specified): 1,096

Total murder victims: 13, 927
By firearm: 10,258

Obviously gangs and crime play a big role in gun deaths, but not to the proportional extent that some would like us to believe. At least not to an extent that justifies the kind of matter-of-fact pronouncements of which L I is so fond. People like L I should really stop distorting the facts. It makes one question their motives.

While "gang-related" certainly is not accurate as he says, I think what is being described is killings tied to criminal activity vs. people snapping. In other words, individuals with substantial criminal histories engaged in crime or various "street beefs" that aren't exactly ganf-related but fit a similar pattern. People for whom illegality is not a major deterrent.

You'd really need to look at the breakdown of each case. I think purely "gangland" is a bit narrow for gun crime that is centered around criminal activity.

Practically, what I think many RWers mean by that is "Minorities shooting each other", and in their minds such acts are confined to minority neighborhoods and they to some extent or another devalue/deemphasize minority life. Sorry, but just because a shooting of an 8 year-old black child happens in a poor black neighborhood doesn't mean you can just handwave it away as "gang-shooting."

Everyone is trying to manipulate the stats to support their respective views.

Well, the "dimwit" in question argued that more guns should mean more people are dead: "Why isn't everyone dead?" he asked.  I answered.  And you have no room in this forum to call anyone a dimwit, even shaneberry.

But you answered by showing the fatal shooting rate, not the murder rate.

The issue is murders.

But you answered by showing the fatal shooting rate, not the murder rate.

The issue is murders.

Well, I agree that's what the thread started out to be about, but that's not the comment i was responding to.

You of all people on this forum surely understand how people make tangentially-related (and indeed completely unrelated) points in Waygook threads.