Young Koreans flock to luxury goods as society tells them looks means everything

A bigger number is a bigger number no matter how you are trying to twist it. In a swimming race, there may be less than a second between the gold medalist and the 6th. Can the 6th say that the difference is so small, they basically won?

I don't think your analogy works as an analogy of conclusion, and if it as an analogy of rationale, then it just shows really poor logical thinking.

We aren't talking about a race. This isn't a contest. You're attempting to draw a conclusion from data that the data doesn't seek to answer. The data answers only one thing- Luxury goods spend per capita. However, it doesn't do anything to address culture. As far as we can tell, it doesn't even address things like import costs and relative price of goods based on each country.

It would be like saying "Japan spends the most per capita on gasoline, ergo Japanese culture is more of a driving and gasoline consumption culture than anywhere else." No, it just says that they spend more than anyone else. Now MAYBE it is because of a culture that really values driving and consuming gasoline. I mean, Japanese do manufacture a lot of cars (Japan manufactures cars, ergo I think Japanese are a culture of driving and consuming gasoline. It matches with what I see and I'm married to a Japanese woman, so I'm right). However, perhaps there are other explanations.....

Same with Korea and luxury goods spending. All the data says is that they spend more per capita. You'd need a lot more to support the conclusions you are drawing.

But you missed where I wrote that being number 1 or 5 doesn't make a difference. Koreans are one of the top consumers of designer goods in the World. Being a materialistic society, this is not surprising at all.

Do you not see how you are working backward? You are starting with a conclusion and then looking for data to support your view, rather than relying on the data to make your conclusion. Now you have found data that you feel supports your conclusion.

Except the data doesn't really do that when you examine it deeply. For starters, there we only get data for three countries (unless you can point me to the full unlocked survey and its methodology). We get a data point for Korea, one for China and one for the U.S. Furthermore, the range of the figures is apparently $85 to $280 to $325.

The fact that we're talking luxury goods and the range of per capita spend is $280 to $325 should throw up massive red flags concerning any conclusions. First, the figure is incredibly low. In fact it's so low, that were it in fact to be a luxury good in and of itself, in both the case of the U.S. and Korea, it would qualify as a single purchase of a low-tier luxury good. It is also a very small percentage of income. Finally, when dealing with narrow ranges, one should look to see if in fact rather than raw-ranking, a tier is a better way to properly contextualize the data.

You didn't do any of that. You didn't do any deeper dive into the data. And you got rather defensive and close-minded when asked to examine that.

Like, if we were in an academic setting, and you were presenting this, you would be getting completely eviscerated right now and everyone would be pointing out these flaws in how you were analyzing things.

Even other posters who are no fans of mine are acknowledging that this figure doesn't support the conclusions you are drawing.

He bolds the bits he thinks are his epic putdown moments

Sorry, that was probably my fault, he was a little emotional when I left yesterday. 

Got him going into hyperdrive with his usual hypocrisy and typical gaslighting monologues, he's trying extra hard to convince everyone that they're the ones being hysterical, not him, and therefore any points you make loses validity. He tends to do that whenever his arguments are especially weak, makes a lot of false assertions and hyperboles as a basis for all of it, and can't really take it when people turn that around on him.

So he bolds his text. I mean, you need to know. He's the most serious analyst here, and by god he's going to put you in your place.

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On topic, real analysts have weighed in:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/13/south-koreans-are-the-worlds-biggest-spenders-on-luxury-goods.html#:~:text=Morgan%20Stanley%20analysts%20explained%20the,icons%20to%20further%20catalyze%20demand.

Sorry, that was probably my fault, he was a little emotional when I left yesterday. 

Got him going into hyperdrive with his usual hypocrisy and typical gaslighting monologues, he's trying extra hard to convince everyone that they're the ones being hysterical, not him, and therefore any points you make loses validity. He tends to do that whenever his arguments are especially weak, makes a lot of false assertions and hyperboles as a basis for all of it, and can't really take it when people turn that around on him.

So he bolds his text. I mean, you need to know. He's the most serious analyst here, and by god he's going to put you in your place.

-------

On topic, real analysts have weighed in:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/13/south-koreans-are-the-worlds-biggest-spenders-on-luxury-goods.html#:~:text=Morgan%20Stanley%20analysts%20explained%20the,icons%20to%20further%20catalyze%20demand.

Well, if you didn't have me on ignore, you might actually have read what I was saying and realize that I was debating the point, and what my rationale was because we addressed what the journalists concluded from that Morgan Stanley survey.

Anyways, in your own article-

However, Bain & Company cautioned against the use of per capita metrics for luxury good consumption.

“Luxury by definition is not a mass market product,” Bain & Co partner Weiwei Xing told CNBC.

“I would suggest to prorate the total luxury spending by number of population that’s middle class and above, which would be a more meaningful measure to reflect attitude and consumption towards luxury,” Xing said, adding that would narrow the gap.

It might also be useful to look at total number of individual luxury goods purchased as well as the spend on each item.

Of course doing this common sense step would shrink the gap incredibly to the point of near nothing-ness and not serve its function as a means to spur investment for shareholders and serves as empty data for those using Morgan Stanley's financial/consulting services.

There is a reason we also need to use academic sources in addition to the investment sector when making these kinds of conclusions.....

Ok, I'm done with Marty.

Sorry, that was probably my fault, he was a little emotional when I left yesterday. 

Got him going into hyperdrive with his usual hypocrisy and typical gaslighting monologues, he's trying extra hard to convince everyone that they're the ones being hysterical, not him, and therefore any points you make loses validity. He tends to do that whenever his arguments are especially weak, makes a lot of false assertions and hyperboles as a basis for all of it, and can't really take it when people turn that around on him.

This is what, your 6th post on this thread about me? I see the ignore function is working well for you.

Anyways, its a bit rich to accuse someone of making bad arguments, when your posts haven't even been about the OP, but about me, without any direct communication between us, and with me supposedly being "ignored".

I’d take Van’s rants over Marty’s BSisms every day of the week.

Same.

They're both obnoxious and insufferable, but at least Van's posts are shorter. And while he has the same lack of accountability as DM has, at least he'll run along after a while.

I'd prefer neither Savant. Talk of the devil, where is he?

...at least he'll run along after a while.

Good point. So yeah, if given a choice van is easier to handle and distract.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/the-world-s-biggest-luxury-spenders-are-label-loving-koreans

Listed as 10th largest luxury market (at least since spring of last year), but #1 in per capita spending.

Pretty much agreement across the board on why, a lot of you guys were on the nose with some of your suppositions.

I'd prefer neither Savant. Talk of the devil, where is he?

Vacation, maybe? Could also be embarrassed about his latest drunken faux pas, I'm pretty sure he's actually capable of being embarrassed. Just lacks the impulse control to avoid it.

Good point. So yeah, if given a choice van is easier to handle and distract.

And Van's rants are way more fun to parody

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/the-world-s-biggest-luxury-spenders-are-label-loving-koreans

Listed as 10th largest luxury market, but #1 in per capita spending.

Pretty much agreement across the board on why, a lot of you guys were on the nose with some of your suppositions.

Sigh. If you didn't block anyone, or even read your own article you posted, you might have seen why per capita spend is an incredibly poor indicator.

If you want a case study in the dangers of "ignore", when you combine with poor critical thinking skills, you end up like Chinguetti- not seeing the counter-arguments and people pointing out pretty elementary flaws with the conclusions being drawn. Then you go off into your world of ignored ignorance convinced that something is true.

Sigh. If you didn't block anyone, or even read your own article you posted, you might have seen why per capita spend is an incredibly poor indicator.

If you want a case study in the dangers of "ignore", when you combine with poor critical thinking skills, you end up like Chinguetti- not seeing the counter-arguments and people pointing out pretty elementary flaws with the conclusions being drawn. Then you go off into your world of ignored ignorance convinced that something is true.

everyone has put you on ignore, not because they don't want to have an argument with you. But because they're all tired of your argument. "Korea and koreans can't possibly be _______. Just look at _________."   Korea and Koreans are. We've all lived here a very long time. Everyone is observing the exact same thing. Youve got you blinders on because of some perceived nationalism.  Its ok to be Korean and also see the negative side of korea. You don't always have to argue to engage with people. I believe in you.

everyone has put you on ignore, not because they don't want to have an argument with you. But because they're all tired of your argument. "Korea and koreans can't possibly be _______. Just look at _________."   Korea and Koreans are. We've all lived here a very long time. Everyone is observing the exact same thing. Youve got you blinders on because of some perceived nationalism.  Its ok to be Korean and also see the negative side of korea. You don't always have to argue to engage with people. I believe in you.

Is Marty a gyopo?

Marty is a gyopo with Walter Mitty leanings.

Is Marty a gyopo?

Ethnically, he is Korean.

All of a sudden everything makes so much sense!

I put him on ignore because he's incredibly one-note and doesn't know how to have an honest conversation. The bulk of his posts are aimed at putting people down or trying to make them feel stupid, either directly or indirectly, even for their food choices, and he's constantly ascribing to how wrong everyone is. Like all the time, usually with very little to no basis. Loves to misrepresent things people say towards that end. He's absolutely one of the most biased and least impartial users here but is constantly trying to point the finger at everyone else. He projects. A lot. When people challenge him on that, he resorts to gaslighting and using fallacies. When people get tired of dismantling his constant flow of weak arguments and start taking a hard look at what's behind these arguments, he says they lack critical thinking skills (like wtf? Does he ever read back over the bullshit he writes, lol?).

It's Freudian logic.

The way he's constantly at everyone's throats on these boards, that's not something a normal person does, lol. He's a hot, narcissistic mess. I've said it before, but it's really not about defending Korea. It's about defending his own dysfunctional sense of self and being able to do what he wants without criticism. A part of that is tied to his identity with Korea, but it's a lot more than that. He's always defending toxic and abusive people and behaviors that he identifies with, even without Korea in the equation. You take Korea away from him, he'll just replace it with something else because what it boils down to is control to make up for whatever it is that he lacks. Control over how other people should feel or think. Control over what gets discussed. "YOU don't get to say anything about "x" because what do you know? Listen to what I tell you." He twists narratives so that he can derail threads and frustrate users into shutting down.

Once you realize that, the best thing you can do is to choose not to engage.

Is Marty a gyopo?

everything about him screams gyopo.  my best guess would be adopted from korea as a child before 10 years of age to a family in the north east of america. Teased a lot as a kid going to predominantly white / black schools. developed a tough exterior and had to defend koreaness and asianness to alot of kids in school.  came back here in early adulthood for a sense of fitting in but still not quite fitting in.  continued to defend Korea and koreans like he always has.  i get that if this were the case, it'd be a tough upbringing.  it would tend to make a person defensive.  but, thats not an excuse to be insufferable.   all of this is just my best guess.

i still think the biggest issue here is the constant conflation of someone saying "i dont like this about korea" with "i don't like this about korea because it doesn't happen anywhere else in the world".

i don't think that anyone can deny that appearances matter a lot more than they should in korea, and you don't need statistics to prove it, you just need to open your eyes for a few seconds. obviously other countries have had this issue too, but we've moved on to body positivity and whatnot (which some would argue is the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction, but thats neither here nor there). that being the case, i dont think its an unfair conclusion to draw that this aspect of modern korean culture is likely a contributing factor in the amount of money koreans spend on luxury goods.