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Why is Marti complaining about no one answering his question about women and luxury goods?  That has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Actually it does. We're going into why people buy luxury goods. Since everyone here claims to have such keen insight and know why, they should be able to answer this easily as to some of the general tendencies and motivations of 52% of the market.

However, if you can't answer that, maybe it's an indication you shouldn't jump to conclusions or that you might not have the best insight.


I can only speculate and rely on conversations over the years; given being married to a Korean woman for 41 years, having two daughters who have lived most of their lives in Korea, and having a large Korean family and social group surrounding me. All anecdotal of course, and which of course you would refute. No point getting in to it with you Marti.  Plus this is not my field of study.
Well, if I was such a person, I might be much more hesitant about drawing conclusions if I couldn't explain a major demographic's general motivation with luxury goods/cosmetic items.

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When?????? Show me where I stated this????
My apologies if you did not attribute Korean culture as an explanation. In which case, do you agree with me that given all the other factors I listed- rural vs. urban, shopping infrastructure, average age of retirement, etc. that this somewhat explains differences.

However, I will say there is one significant cultural practice here vs. U.S (though not Korea vs. World) and that is the prevalence for unmarried children to live at home with their parents, even while working, which in turn has an impact on disposable income.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 11:55:53 am by JonVoightCar »


Please give a link that shows the Korean average income (or median) being only 20% lower than the USA's.
Correction, average salary.


For sure, it's an impossible discussion. I just felt the need to bring up our previous discussion because Korean reporters were also writing about why luxury goods in Korea were so important to Koreans.
Exactly what you said..."written by Koreans on Korean habits.
Okay, so NOW we're viewing the Korea Times as a reputable source that does insightful analysis and is a bastion of critical and analytical reporting?

Korean news will make anything about Koreans, even if it isn't.


  • 745sticky
  • The Legend

    • 2423

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Okay, so NOW we're viewing the Korea Times as a reputable source that does insightful analysis and is a bastion of critical and analytical reporting?

Korean news will make anything about Koreans, even if it isn't.

Out of curiosity, has Jefro in particular ever called The Korea Times disreputable, or is this another one of those cases where you're smearing the whole board based off something hangook and his ilk said?


Anyone here got an explanation for why $325 vs. $280 is some great indicator of different behavior and mentality in the world of luxury goods consumerism?

That's what this is all about. That single difference in a data point. Please explain what conclusions you were able to draw from that.


  • Lazio
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1136

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Correction, average salary.

Link please.
Wage or income, median or average, the difference is significantly higher than the 20% you wrote.
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  • Lazio
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1136

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
My apologies if you did not attribute Korean culture as an explanation. In which case, do you agree with me that given all the other factors I listed- rural vs. urban, shopping infrastructure, average age of retirement, etc. that this somewhat explains differences.

This is gold.
Accuses someone writing something that never actually happened and then goes: ''oh you didn't say that? Then you must agree with what I wrote''
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Out of curiosity, has Jefro in particular ever called The Korea Times disreputable, or is this another one of those cases where you're smearing the whole board based off something hangook and his ilk said?
Well, the implication was that this article had validity because it was a Korean article about Koreans, thus its conclusions about Koreans were valid.

-I'm more looking at the actual figure used to justify all of this which is apparently a difference of $325 per person vs. $280. No one is really trying to address that outside of Lazio.
-Then there is the issue of "Why is this necessarily reflective of Koreans and their culture/ and why is that the first instinctual conclusion?" Korea's urbanization, shopping infrastructure, exchange rate, import costs and so on are also explanations.
-If people here are such keen observers of shopping motivation, surely they can explain why a major demographic spends the way it does with luxury products and why.

Basically, what happened is people, always on the lookout for some reason to diss Koreans and their culture, as they believe they are entitled to sit in judgment an their worldview is the "normal", correct one, spouted off on some thread about Koreans and luxury goods. Then an article pops up which at first glance appeals to this view, but of course, lacking critical thinking skills and suffering from confirmation bias, they didn't bother to analyze it and see the limitations. Common enough mistake. We all do it.


what happened is people, always on the lookout for some reason to diss Koreans and their culture, as they believe they are entitled to sit in judgment an their worldview is the "normal", correct one

No, this isn't what happened.


Link please.
Wage or income, median or average, the difference is significantly higher than the 20% you wrote.
You're right. More like ~33%. I double checked again. I did two sources and they were different years.

Regardless, this still doesn't get to the issue: What is the substantive difference between $280 vs. $325? How is that much of an indicator when factoring in inflation and import costs and such?

Basically, it's two people in two different countries buying the same product. You're treating this as a math problem, but really we're talking consumer behavior. If we assume that in both countries, being developed countries, that people would be expected to buy say, 1 low-tier luxury item per year, then that price would pretty much line up with that difference. At some point average wage doesn't matter. You're still going to buy your 1 designer wallet/handbag/luxury whiskey/shoes/etc.

The pseudo-mathematicians view: "OMG, there's a huge difference based on these stats. there must be some big explanation. This is wildly out of proportion"
The marketing view: "People in both countries bought a pair of designer shoes."


  • Lazio
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1136

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
You're right. More like ~33%. I double checked again.

That's another made up figure. Try again.
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  • Lazio
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1136

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Okay, I'm out.
I will just leave this here again, hoping that JVC gets it at some point:

''Koreans' per capita spending on luxury goods highest in world''
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No, this isn't what happened.
Why was this article of interest then?

Koreans seem to like purchasing luxury goods and are willing to pay overs when buying them. It's all one-upmanship and defining your social status. I guess, it's also just feeling good about owning something expensive and classy.

In other countries luxury goods are less important for an average citizen. But in a Korea, appearance is extremely important. Showing yourself more than what you are is a deeply rooted part of the culture here.
It's not that difficult for someone with a half decent job to drop 2-3-4 million on a purse. Especially if they are single, not even planning to have a family and/or even live with their parents. They might live in a tiny studio, but are proudly displaying their Chanel purse. Owning at least one piece of designer item seems to be a basic necessity here for many, regardless of their economic and social status.

And for the wealthy: they also seem to spend their money differently here. In the US, one would have a car collection of 5, 10, 15 cars. Or a vacation home in Florida or Hawaii. These are not really a thing here. At least I don't think they are.

Notice the attitude in these posts- The presumption of judgment. The us vs. them mindset. The desire to see difference and in that difference to present them as lower. The belief that their way is the normal one and that the others are the ones that are "different" and wrong.

Hopefully as this generation moves on, we'll get to move on from these kinds of attitudes as well. I notice they are far less prevalent in younger westerners, so there's hope that such dinosaur attitudes are disappearing. Nice to see young western kids telling people with such views to take a hike (though they do take it to far). Am I getting this right? That's how we all like to talk about ajosshis and I think it applies here? No?

Anyways, Jethro, do you agree that this is your mindset or is reflective of it? Do you think maybe, just maybe there is a bit of that in how you view Koreans and the world and maybe understand that it's not your place to judge them and they don't exist to fulfill your expectations and to have the same values as you?

Like, you know that subtle Korean racism we have all experienced and picked up on? The way the ajosshi tries to be friendly but says things in a certain way that lets you know he views himself at one level and the waygookin at another? Or that he thinks his Korean way is the norm? Same thing.

The boomers on here and ajosshis- two sides of the same coin.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 12:48:27 pm by JonVoightCar »


Okay, I'm out.
I will just leave this here again, hoping that JVC gets it at some point:

''Koreans' per capita spending on luxury goods highest in world''
The difference you are talking about is the cost of purchasing the exact same item in Korea vs. the U.S.
 
Do YOU get it?


  • Billy Herrington
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1120

    • June 30, 2022, 12:02:07 am
    • China
    more
Basically, what happened is people, always on the lookout for some reason to diss Koreans and their culture, as they believe they are entitled to sit in judgment an their worldview is the "normal", correct one

Are you mentally ill? Who did that?
Blocked: Billy Herrington, Van Darkholme, The Cat's Meow, Sock Puppet


Okay, I'm out.
I will just leave this here again, hoping that JVC gets it at some point:

''Koreans' per capita spending on luxury goods highest in world''

I'm out too! Not even going to respond to the above quote Marti. Just read Lazio's again. He said it all.


  • 745sticky
  • The Legend

    • 2423

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Basically, what happened is people, always on the lookout for some reason to diss Koreans and their culture, as they believe they are entitled to sit in judgment an their worldview is the "normal", correct one, spouted off on some thread about Koreans and luxury goods.

Korea having a materialistic aspect to their culture isn't unique to Korea, but it's perfectly valid to explore the ways in which the reasons for it might be uniquely Korean. I don't know if I'd say that's "dissing Korean culture". Or even if it is, I don't think you could call it a double standard. People have been satirizing and railing against celebrity culture in the States for ages.

I'm sure anybody on this thread who thinks Koreans are materialistic would also agree that the current obsession with overpriced streetwear brands (Supreme, Bape, etc) and celebrity worship of people like The Kardashians are also stupid. And that while it may not be a uniquely American phenomena, there are aspects of American culture that makes it particularly prevalent in our culture.





Are you mentally ill? Who did that?
Didn't you read the posts?

Quote
Koreans seem to like purchasing luxury goods and are willing to pay overs when buying them. It's all one-upmanship and defining your social status. I guess, it's also just feeling good about owning something expensive and classy.
See the judgment and the othering in this. The view of Koreans as wrong and different. In Jethro's defense he at least offered an alternative explanation of it bringing satisfaction.

Quote
But in a Korea, appearance is extremely important. Showing yourself more than what you are is a deeply rooted part of the culture here.
It's not that difficult for someone with a half decent job to drop 2-3-4 million on a purse. Especially if they are single, not even planning to have a family and/or even live with their parents. They might live in a tiny studio, but are proudly displaying their Chanel purse. Owning at least one piece of designer item seems to be a basic necessity here for many, regardless of their economic and social status.
If you can't view the condescension in that, then I'm sorry.


Korea having a materialistic aspect to their culture isn't unique to Korea, but it's perfectly valid to explore the ways in which the reasons for it might be uniquely Korean. I don't know if I'd say that's "dissing Korean culture". Or even if it is, I don't think you could call it a double standard. People have been satirizing and railing against celebrity culture in the States for ages.

I'm sure anybody on this thread who thinks Koreans are materialistic would also agree that the current obsession with overpriced streetwear brands (Supreme, Bape, etc) and celebrity worship of people like The Kardashians are also stupid. And that while it may not be a uniquely American phenomena, there are aspects of American culture that makes it particularly prevalent in our culture.
True, but I think if they felt that and were interested in having a fair discussion, they'd include that in what they wrote, which to be fair to Jethro, he did balance out his view somewhat.

And is this kind of thing were a one-off, it might be different. But this is part of a pattern of behavior we have seen- People come on here and bitch about Koreans.