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  • Anor Londo
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    • Cheongju
The Future of EFL Survey
« on: November 24, 2022, 08:50:57 pm »
Hello,

I'm collecting data on perceptions of the future of the EFL industry. I am interested in how instructors view their vocation in light of the recent changes caused by the pandemic and the rise of remote teaching. This post is a call for participants who are teaching EFL and are part of the EFL industry in South Korea.

Here's the link: https://forms.gle/ibBAPrt51qASEyTW8

Thank you.



  • Billy Herrington
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2022, 09:09:39 pm »
Real question: why do academics spend so much time studying "perceptions" instead of what's actually happening in education? You know our perceptions of this issue are utterly irrelevant, right?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 09:19:48 pm by Billy Herrington »


  • Anor Londo
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2022, 09:39:02 pm »
Real question: why do academics spend so much time studying "perceptions" instead of what's actually happening in education? You know our perceptions of this issue are utterly irrelevant, right?

The study investigates how EFL teachers perceive the future of their vocation. The questions were designed to give the participants an account of their current job experiences.

I don't think you believe that your perception is irrelevant. Participating in this forum and expressing your views suggests you have a privileged account of your point of view. If it were otherwise, you would have stayed silent or done something else with your time.


  • Billy Herrington
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2022, 09:57:34 pm »
The study investigates how EFL teachers perceive the future of their vocation. The questions were designed to give the participants an account of their current job experiences.

I don't think you believe that your perception is irrelevant. Participating in this forum and expressing your views suggests you have a privileged account of your point of view. If it were otherwise, you would have stayed silent or done something else with your time.

You think we have a "privileged account"? You think Hogwon owners care what we think? Maybe you should ask some hogwon owners because they're the ones who are closer to the driver's seat here. And yes, I do think my perception of the future is ESL is irrelevant to the future of ESL. I am curious, however, as to why education academics spend so much time studying perceptions instead of reality.


  • Kyndo
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2022, 07:19:58 am »
You think we have a "privileged account"? You think Hogwon owners care what we think? Maybe you should ask some hogwon owners because they're the ones who are closer to the driver's seat here. And yes, I do think my perception of the future is ESL is irrelevant to the future of ESL. I am curious, however, as to why education academics spend so much time studying perceptions instead of reality.

I would guess that we're a good audience to survey because we have a lot of experience in the field, and because posters on waygook obviously have the time and inclination to type about it.  :smiley:

Not trying to put words in OP's mouth, but I would guess that our perceptions are important in that what we experience and relate to our friends, acquaintances, youtube followers etc can influence how others perceive the ESL industry in our area, and might influence the number of esl applicants that want to teach in South Korea or whatever.
   It's also a way to measure how the industry is doing (albeit using secondary data) from a POV that has very different biases compared to those that traditionally compile data (ie governments, POEs, hagwon unions etc).

Also, with enough survey data, discrepancies between existing official data and data collected about teacher perceptions will become evident, and those might be very interesting to look at, and examine what the underlying causes of those discrepancies might be.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 07:21:51 am by Kyndo »


  • Renma
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2022, 07:56:38 am »
Quote
The study is an examination of teachers' perceptions of the systemic challenges facing EFL in Korean higher education.

OP what is this for? Who is your target? What is your thesis (presumably) on?  The blurb at the top says its to gather our perceptions on Korean higher education. What insight are you hoping to gain from us? For non-university teachers, why would our views matter? Do you have any quality controls? Half the posters on this forum left Korea and/or Korean education behind already. How will you differentiate former from current teachers? A lot of users have outdated, warped or parroted-from-social-media views. Will you recognize and represent those in your results?

Tons of people come by and drop a link to vague and similar surveys and never elaborate on them. Introduce it and yourself properly. And buy me a coffee if you want my time. :wink:


  • Mithras
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2022, 08:59:44 am »
I printed out your survey to take (I don't trust google) and it gave me a paper cut. Why did you hurt me? Also give me your home address so I can return it in person. Completed, slightly sanguinary.


  • Billy Herrington
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2022, 12:31:32 pm »
OP what is this for? Who is your target? What is your thesis (presumably) on?  The blurb at the top says its to gather our perceptions on Korean higher education. What insight are you hoping to gain from us? For non-university teachers, why would our views matter? Do you have any quality controls? Half the posters on this forum left Korea and/or Korean education behind already. How will you differentiate former from current teachers? A lot of users have outdated, warped or parroted-from-social-media views. Will you recognize and represent those in your results?

Tons of people come by and drop a link to vague and similar surveys and never elaborate on them. Introduce it and yourself properly. And buy me a coffee if you want my time. :wink:

I'm a bit new here so I am curious. How many of them study real stuff and how many of them study "perceptions" of stuff that have zero bearing on said stuff? I once wrote an essay on the benefits of peer editing. Most of the research I found was about how students "perceived" peer editing rather than the actual outcomes of it. Occasionally I would find one or two articles that compared standardized test scores before and after conducting peer editing, but they were incredibly rare. Most researchers I found just focused on feelings.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 01:16:57 pm by Billy Herrington »


  • Anor Londo
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2022, 06:41:41 pm »
OP what is this for? Who is your target? What is your thesis (presumably) on? The blurb at the top says its to gather our perceptions on Korean higher education. What insight are you hoping to gain from us? For non-university teachers, why would our views matter? Do you have any quality controls? Half the posters on this forum left Korea and/or Korean education behind already. How will you differentiate former from current teachers? A lot of users have outdated, warped or parroted-from-social-media views. Will you recognize and represent those in your results?

Tons of people come by and drop a link to vague and similar surveys and never elaborate on them. Introduce it and yourself properly. And buy me a coffee if you want my time. :wink:

I'm writing about EFL teachers' perceptions of their industry. Initially, the study was restricted to university instructors, but the sample size was limited. I decided to expand the sample size, took a risk, and asked for volunteers on this site. As for the limited amount of description, I did not, and I still don't want to say too much because I don't want to influence what people will say.

With that said, I'm not here to judge your views. I collect and gather your opinions. Afterward, I analyze trends and construct themes for a possible paper.


  • Billy Herrington
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2022, 12:14:38 pm »
I'm writing about EFL teachers' perceptions of their industry. Initially, the study was restricted to university instructors, but the sample size was limited. I decided to expand the sample size, took a risk, and asked for volunteers on this site. As for the limited amount of description, I did not, and I still don't want to say too much because I don't want to influence what people will say.

With that said, I'm not here to judge your views. I collect and gather your opinions. Afterward, I analyze trends and construct themes for a possible paper.

Can you tell us which university you're with, and/or which faculty you're in, and maybe what kind of journal you'd be publishing in?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 12:53:56 pm by Billy Herrington »


Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2022, 02:31:57 pm »
One thing it seems people still arenít thinking about is that this entire thing of spreading English is linked to the 300-year British/American era of imperialismÖand that era is now ending. But people are always fighting the last war, and Korean moms are no different: still thinking about English as a way to get something out of the empire (even though with their kidís lifespan, they will be firmly in some new world by the time they are middle ages). But probably people on this thread mean 3-5 years, not 30-50.


  • VanIslander
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2022, 08:28:55 pm »
Given world GDP trade and given COVID and other restrictions? *shrug*

But, despite record lows in birth rate in South Korea, i see a continuing thirst for English language learning among Korean moms, even more intense than before (e.g., wanting teacher-parent meetings), with more 1st & 2nd graders at academies than ever before (as a ratio of the total).

The pandemic has clearly shrunk the ELT industry, given all those i know in my industry (20 years here anniversary last week for me yay!).

On the other point: I am shocked at the lack of fire for REMOTE teaching. My hagwon boss had me do a couple of online classes. But nothing more than that. And no more these days. One would expect with the pandemic of COVID that remote learning, online learning would become a thing. And maybe it is internationally. But in South Korea, moms (yes, 90%+ of concerned parents here are moms) demand TOP QUALITY for their children (er, each for their child, given birth rates we're talking one on one). I teach in a small town but i have a part-time job in a Korean city where i see all this often!

I would say the future of ELT (English language teaching) in South Korea is stronger than ever, though maybe tighter, as moms demand more: parent-teacher interviews, homework and/or academy updates more than bi-monthly reports with newsletters.

For sure, the "industry" as you call it, is not dying.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2022, 08:52:44 pm by VanIslander »
Help others, especially animals. Say what you think, be considerate of others. Appreciate more than deprecate. Teach well, jump on teachable moments. Enjoy Korea as it is, without changing it. Dwell! Yet, at times, change your life for the better. "The most important [thing] is to have a good day."


  • Billy Herrington
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2022, 08:40:36 pm »
Congratulations on your 20 years, Van!  ;D ;D ;D ;D


  • VanIslander
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2022, 09:44:43 pm »
Congratulations on your 20 years, Van!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
The joy you send, now, on Christmas Eve, I dunno how best to respond, so I wiil be direct:

Thanks, man. Wish you were here instead of China. You have two nights on my floor anytime (er, am in too small a bachelor's apt to offer more).
Help others, especially animals. Say what you think, be considerate of others. Appreciate more than deprecate. Teach well, jump on teachable moments. Enjoy Korea as it is, without changing it. Dwell! Yet, at times, change your life for the better. "The most important [thing] is to have a good day."


  • Billy Herrington
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2022, 10:53:45 am »
The joy you send, now, on Christmas Eve, I dunno how best to respond, so I wiil be direct:

Thanks, man. Wish you were here instead of China. You have two nights on my floor anytime (er, am in too small a bachelor's apt to offer more).

Thank you, Van. :smiley: Maybe one day I'll be able to take you up on that offer.


  • waygo0k
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2022, 08:17:00 am »
Given world GDP trade and given COVID and other restrictions? *shrug*

But, despite record lows in birth rate in South Korea, i see a continuing thirst for English language learning among Korean moms, even more intense than before (e.g., wanting teacher-parent meetings), with more 1st & 2nd graders at academies than ever before (as a ratio of the total).

The pandemic has clearly shrunk the ELT industry, given all those i know in my industry (20 years here anniversary last week for me yay!).

On the other point: I am shocked at the lack of fire for REMOTE teaching. My hagwon boss had me do a couple of online classes. But nothing more than that. And no more these days. One would expect with the pandemic of COVID that remote learning, online learning would become a thing. And maybe it is internationally. But in South Korea, moms (yes, 90%+ of concerned parents here are moms) demand TOP QUALITY for their children (er, each for their child, given birth rates we're talking one on one). I teach in a small town but i have a part-time job in a Korean city where i see all this often!

I would say the future of ELT (English language teaching) in South Korea is stronger than ever, though maybe tighter, as moms demand more: parent-teacher interviews, homework and/or academy updates more than bi-monthly reports with newsletters.

For sure, the "industry" as you call it, is not dying.

If mums demand top quality teachers for their children, they best ensure the pay is able to attract top quality teachers.

Minimum wage in 2022 ainít cutting it.


  • hangook77
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2022, 10:53:38 am »
Not always about qualifications, but people who can teach and are good with kids.  Some folks have qualifications up the ying yang and are terrible teachers, boring, not liked by kids.  Then others can have advanced education and be decent at teaching.  Then others with just a Bachelors and a pulse have the personality that kids like and can teach enough through experience and trial and error. 

Mums usually want the foreign teacher to be fun and for the kids to be enthusiastic to speak English around.  They may expect a bit more training, grammar, vocabulary from the Korean teachers.  But the foreign teacher is mostly for speaking and maybe can reinforce some of the Korean teachers info. 

Now for years, hakwons could get the foreigners on the cheap and mums never were the wiser.  They are probably unaware of how the exact market works.  Many probably still think we are paid well.  They will be in for a shock if lots of teachers leave due to low pay.  Already there is a forum on reddit apparently with EPIK asking what it can do to keep experienced teachers and there are some Facebook groups where teachers are slamming the low wages.  Fortunately some of the hakwons are starting to raise the pay a bit though still not where it should be.  Better than 2.1 I guess.  But it needs to get up to 3 plus million won.  (And maybe it will.)

Of course, I do get crap for saying this, but China does and will have openings with almost double the pay.  Maybe young teachers will consider this if wages here don't improve.  I think many will wait for covid to rip through the population first. 


  • Billy Herrington
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2022, 08:47:41 pm »
Of course, I do get crap for saying this, but China does and will have openings with almost double the pay.  Maybe young teachers will consider this if wages here don't improve.  I think many will wait for covid to rip through the population first.

A lot of recruiters have already gone into overdrive trying to find people from overseas.


  • Mr C
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2022, 09:11:29 pm »

Of course, I do get crap for saying this, but China does and will have openings with almost double the pay. 

No, you get crap for saying almost nothing else.


  • Jethro Bodine
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Re: The Future of EFL Survey
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2022, 09:18:12 pm »

Of course, I do get crap for saying this, but China does and will have openings with almost double the pay. 

Hangook, you don't get crap for saying this...what you say is often true. Wages in Korea at the bottom end, are terrible. Conditions are often poor, and China is an option if you are seeking more money. Most would agree.

What you get shit for in part, is how you manage to drag this into most related or unrelated conversations, and, how you do it relentlessly. I've been posting on here regularly since early 2020 and I honestly can't remember a day when you haven't brought these things up or got into it with other posters over these issues. This is what has led to people rolling their eyes and poking you some more.

Oops, Mr C beat me to the punch. Same opinion though,