China, Covid measures, and vaccines

Fair enough.

Actually there is an update. In Shanghai, the education industry is a particular bind this week. There was a Covid outbreak at Disneyland so schools all over Shanghai are closing due to close contacts.

Actually there is an update. In Shanghai, the education industry is a particular bind this week. There was a Covid outbreak at Disneyland so schools all over Shanghai are closing due to close contacts.

Looks like 2023 or 2024 till folks can really start getting over there.  Though if this keeps up there's gonna be a revolution over there in the meantime.  Looks like Korea can stay arrogant for another year.  But boy oh boy, once things open up again, that's another story....  I am here at least another year anyways.  Signed another contract grudgingly this past summer.

Looks like 2023 or 2024 till folks can really start getting over there.  Though if this keeps up there's gonna be a revolution over there in the meantime.

It looks like China might he headed that way. Public opinion has definitely turned against Zero-Covid. It was sold as a way to return to normal, and that's not what we are being delivered. Videos have emerged of workers at the iPhone factory in Zhengzhou escaping and hitching rides on trucks heading out of town. Today a three year old girl in Lanzhou died because she was denied medical treatment due to Covid protocols. Unfortunate, the medical community seems to believe everything the government tells them, including the constant stream of lies about how deadly Omicron is.

hahaha   revolution in china will be dealt with swiftly and nochalantly. without a single care from the rest of the world.  live in a country, play by their rules.   hows the history of protests been in china?   that poster that was briefly hung from an overpass recently that was critical of the Xi governemtn and their handling of covid made world news...  but im sure the person who hung it is either "missing" or spending life in prison right now.  and no one cares.

It's hard to say. Zero-Covid is DEEPLY unpopular now. It's almost at the same level as the One-Child Policy was back in the late 2000s/early-to-mid 2010s. Even if we don't see resistance and protest in the traditional Western sense, it might get harder and harder for the government to enforce. A lot of Westerners (and Chinese for that matter) make the mistake of thinking that the Chinese government is omnipotent and can control everything that happens in China all the time. Unfortunate this delusion seems to have made it all the way to the top.

Most of the country was ok with zero covid when the lockdowns were ravishing the coastal elite cities/provinces (Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Hong Kong etc). The less well-off cities/provinces felt their wealthier coastal cousins were too uppity and the government was right to bring them to heel.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot and zero covid has spread to those less developed regions with far less competent leadership (meaning far more horrendous decision making skills), the working class majority who just earlier this year wholeheartedly rallied behind Xi "taming the capitalists", are now grumbling louder and louder at how unfair zero covid is.

To put zero covid decision making into context, you have to remember there's a general order from the top on what results to achieve. How those results are achieved are largely left to the regions to figure out. You then have to remember over 70% of the Chinese workforce do not have a high school education. That means when you get to middle and lower and local management positions in these less well off regions...you essentially have public policy being decided by highly unqualified people...to the point where PUBLIC BATHROOMS are being used to "house" people who either have covid or are close contacts of those who tested positive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htRRMF5SUg8

Most of the country was ok with zero covid when the lockdowns were ravishing the coastal elite cities/provinces (Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Hong Kong etc). The less well-off cities/provinces felt their wealthier coastal cousins were too uppity and the government was right to bring them to heel.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot and zero covid has spread to those less developed regions with far less competent leadership (meaning far more horrendous decision making skills), the working class majority who just earlier this year wholeheartedly rallied behind Xi "taming the capitalists", are now grumbling louder and louder at how unfair zero covid is.

To put zero covid decision making into context, you have to remember there's a general order from the top on what results to achieve. How those results are achieved are largely left to the regions to figure out. You then have to remember over 70% of the Chinese workforce do not have a high school education. That means when you get to middle and lower and local management positions in these less well off regions...you essentially have public policy being decided by highly unqualified people...to the point where PUBLIC BATHROOMS are being used to "house" people who either have covid or are close contacts of those who tested positive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htRRMF5SUg8

The problem is too that the instructions come from the top and if some lowly official in a small town doesn't contain the virus according to Xi the Pooh's wishes, their heads will roll, hence the stupid decisions made. It's all about keeping your lucrative job and not ending up as an organ donor.

Most of the country was ok with zero covid when the lockdowns were ravishing the coastal elite cities/provinces (Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Hong Kong etc). The less well-off cities/provinces felt their wealthier coastal cousins were too uppity and the government was right to bring them to heel.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot and zero covid has spread to those less developed regions with far less competent leadership (meaning far more horrendous decision making skills), the working class majority who just earlier this year wholeheartedly rallied behind Xi "taming the capitalists", are now grumbling louder and louder at how unfair zero covid is.

Before the Shanghai lockdown I knew many people here who supported Zero-Covid. I told them it was a ticking time bomb and that they mainly supported it because it wasn't happening to them. As soon as we went into lockdown, they all changed their tune (and no, I didn't say "I told ya so"). Also during the Shanghai lockdown there was a lot of sneering from other provinces. What the rest of China didn't seem to understand was that if they lock down the wealth elite coastal cities, China will run out of money to enforce Zero-Covid measures. It seems to have cost them about 5% of their GDP this year.

Going on a bit of a rant here, but I would like to point out that ther was a lot of horrendous decision making in Shanghai too. God knows how many people got infected doing daily mass testing. They were taking Covid-positive kids away from parents until CNN picked up the story and blasted it all over the evening news. I think Western media and institutions who praised China's response to Covid two years ago should probably reflect on this. I really wish they would be as critical of Xi now as they were of Trump in 2020, because what Xi has been saying about Covid is just as inaccurate, not to mention the lower officials who push conspiracy theories that make Alex Jones' Sandy Hook story look like Pulitzer Prize winning journalism.

The problem is too that the instructions come from the top and if some lowly official in a small town doesn't contain the virus according to Xi the Pooh's wishes, their heads will roll, hence the stupid decisions made. It's all about keeping your lucrative job and not ending up as an organ donor.

Yep. Deliberately undereducate the population for decades, then have them perform complex sociological experiments with zero tolerance for failure.

Before the Shanghai lockdown I knew many people here who supported Zero-Covid. I told them it was a ticking time bomb and that they mainly supported it because it wasn't happening to them. As soon as we went into lockdown, they all changed their tune (and no, I didn't say "I told ya so"). Also during the Shanghai lockdown there was a lot of sneering from other provinces. What the rest of China didn't seem to understand was that if they lock down the wealth elite coastal cities, China will run out of money to enforce Zero-Covid measures. It seems to have cost them about 5% of their GDP this year.

Going on a bit of a rant here, but I would like to point out that ther was a lot of horrendous decision making in Shanghai too. God knows how many people got infected doing daily mass testing. They were taking Covid-positive kids away from parents until CNN picked up the story and blasted it all over the evening news. I think Western media and institutions who praised China's response to Covid two years ago should probably reflect on this. I really wish they would be as critical of Xi now as they were of Trump in 2020, because what Xi has been saying about Covid is just as inaccurate, not to mention the lower officials who push conspiracy theories that make Alex Jones' Sandy Hook story look like Pulitzer Prize winning journalism.

Exactly. Even Shanghai isn’t immune to brain-dead decision making (entire complexes queuing to get tested, thereby making each testing round a superspreader event). Our building guards had the bright idea to put bike locks on the entrance doors one night during lockdown…this was a 21floor building with 30+ apartments on each floor. They only changed their minds after multiple threats from residents who were willing to smash the glass doors to make a point about fire safety.

My friend is in Zhengzhou where the outbreak is supposedly serious (just a few cases is serious  ) and his whole apartment complex is in lock down and they have to have a rapid test every morning. He tells me they are herded into a crowded elevator and then into an even more crowded room for the test. Stupidity at its finest.

Honestly, I feel really let down by the medical community in China. They literally believe everything the government tells them, even the obvious lies about the dangers of Omicron, and carry out every brain dead order given to them. Even the WHO couldn't handle China's obvious disinformation and told them to knock this s*** off.

My friend is in Zhengzhou where the outbreak is supposedly serious (just a few cases is serious  ) and his whole apartment complex is in lock down and they have to have a rapid test every morning. He tells me they are herded into a crowded elevator and then into an even more crowded room for the test. Stupidity at its finest.

Anyway..right...its like the thought of taking a jab, that does not prevent infection or transmission.

Very few vaccines are 100% effective, Spliced.
Even the small pox vaccine and the polio vaccine are not guarantees.
Vaccines aren't all-or-nothing measures, despite what the anti-science crowd would have us believe.

The covid vaccines are less effective than hoped, sure, but they *do* offer protection enough that getting the injection is a net benefit.
By priming the immune system, you will have a higher probability of overcoming the virus before it can get a foothold, you will have a lower viral load meaning fewer and less serious symptoms, and that lower viral load will also mean that your probability of transmitting the disease will decrease substantially.

Saying that the covid vaccine is not at all effective is not only just plain wrong (or, at the very least, a gross exaggeration), but it also propagates distrust of measures that reduce the spread of disease.

Very few vaccines are 100% effective, Spliced.
Even the small pox vaccine and the polio vaccine are not guarantees.
Vaccines aren't all-or-nothing measures, despite what the anti-science crowd would have us believe.

The covid vaccines are less effective than hoped, sure, but they *do* offer protection enough that getting the injection is a net benefit.
By priming the immune system, you will have a higher probability of overcoming the virus before it can get a foothold, you will have a lower viral load meaning fewer and less serious symptoms, and that lower viral load will also mean that your probability of transmitting the disease will decrease substantially.

Saying that the covid vaccine is not at all effective is not only just plain wrong (or, at the very least, a gross exaggeration), but it also propagates distrust of measures that reduce the spread of disease.

You are reaching Kyndo.....get out of the echo bubble/chamber...read up on the REAL data.  It does not take much effort...it is quite easy actually. All it takes is effort. 

...you can do it:)

BTW...I recall Benedict Bdiden noting, in so many words...that the "vaccine" would prevent ......

Stop Kyndo...you have a decent reputation....don't sell it down the river.

Honestly, I feel really let down by the medical community in China. They literally believe everything the government tells them, even the obvious lies about the dangers of Omicron, and carry out every brain dead order given to them. Even the WHO couldn't handle China's obvious disinformation and told them to knock this s*** off.

To be fair, some of their top brass were fairly vocal in 2021 and earlier this year, and got promptly swatted down/silenced/demoted/fired/disappeared.

Enough of the medical community knows zero covid is bullshit, but they have to "resolutely adhere" to the supreme leaders wishes.

To be fair, some of their top brass were fairly vocal in 2021 and earlier this year, and got promptly swatted down/silenced/demoted/fired/disappeared.

Enough of the medical community knows zero covid is bullshit, but they have to "resolutely adhere" to the supreme leaders wishes.

Absolutely, to give an example of how controlled doctors are in China, I was teaching a 1 on 1 class and my student that night was a doctor. In the middle of the lesson he burst into tears. I asked what was wrong and he told me he was working at a government hospital but wanted to specialise and he had to move from Zhengzhou to Beijing to do it but the official that had to approve this move, for some reason had taken a dislike to him and refused his request. He told me he was so depressed and couldn't handle spending the rest of his life working in those hospitals which he was doomed to do.

I suggested he should consider moving abroad but he said he couldn't as Chinese doctor's qualifications are not recognised abroad.

I felt so sad for him, he never came back to that institution again, I hope he didn't do something like taking his own life.

You are reaching Kyndo.....get out of the echo bubble/chamber...read up on the REAL data.  It does not take much effort...it is quite easy actually. All it takes is effort.  ...you can do it:)

Reaching? How so?
Here's data from reputable sources confirming that all of the mRNA vaccines do in fact reduce the incidence, severity, and R₀  of Covid19:

Reduces likelihood of becoming infected (between 50 and 90% depending on various conditions)
Reduces infection rate (R₀)
Reduces severity of covid symptoms, as well as that of "long Covid" symptoms"

All these sources are articles taken from reputable and peer reviewed journals.

BTW...I recall Benedict Biden noting, in so many words...that the "vaccine" would prevent ......

If that's what he claimed, then clearly he was wrong. 
Absolute prevention is impossible. Insofar as I know, no vaccine in the long history of vaccines has ever managed it.
Near-absolute immunity is the ideal, but unfortunately it was never attained for covid19.
Reduction and mitigation are the orders of the day: things that current covid vaccines -- imperfect as they obviously are -- do provide.

Some vaccines, like rabies, smallpox, and measles, are nearly 100% effective. Unfortunate Covid mutates too quickly for our current vaccine technology. Scientists are trying to isolate which parts of the virus don't mutate and develop vaccines that target that, but it's going to take time. China hasn't implemented a vaccine mandate so far, probably partly because it would make Zero-Covid harder to justify, and partly because the Chinese-made vaccines don't work.

Reaching? How so?
Here's data from reputable sources confirming that all of the mRNA vaccines do in fact reduce the incidence, severity, and R₀  of Covid19:

Reduces likelihood of becoming infected (between 50 and 90% depending on various conditions)
Reduces infection rate (R₀)
Reduces severity of covid symptoms, as well as that of "long Covid" symptoms"

All these sources are articles taken from reputable and peer reviewed journals.
If that's what he claimed, then clearly he was wrong. 
Absolute prevention is impossible. Insofar as I know, no vaccine in the long history of vaccines has ever managed it.
Near-absolute immunity is the ideal, but unfortunately it was never attained for covid19.
Reduction and mitigation are the orders of the day: things that current covid vaccines -- imperfect as they obviously are -- do provide.

Ah...conflating. 

OK.

Some vaccines, like rabies, smallpox, and measles, are nearly 100% effective. Unfortunate Covid mutates too quickly for our current vaccine technology. Scientists are trying to isolate which parts of the virus don't mutate and develop vaccines that target that, but it's going to take time. China hasn't implemented a vaccine mandate so far, probably partly because it would make Zero-Covid harder to justify, and partly because the Chinese-made vaccines don't work.

Yes, they lose a measure of control if they scrap their Zero Covid policy and that is a no-no in the CCP's books. Absolute control is their method of ensuring they remain in control of 1.4 billion slaves.