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  • Adel
  • The Legend

    • 2346

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2022, 03:48:55 am »
My position has never changed on this forum when I was living in Korea, and after I left.

It has remained consistent throughout.

The only difference are those who cannot see the forest from the trees, failed in Korea, left, newly minted ESL instructors who think they got it all figured out...failed...left ...new peeps...etc.

Dude, I left Korea almost 10 years ago and also live a comfortable life. I enjoy posting here too, it's just I don't feel the need to buttress my self esteem in the same manner.
Would you acknowledge it's possible that people choose to remain in Korea for a host of reasons different to your own rationale for leaving?
I kind of miss the place myself but would find it difficult to return given the comfort levels that I would leave behind. Ideally I envisage a time where I could just alternate between hemispheres to appreciate the warmer months.


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2022, 07:28:01 am »
I'm a bit confused. How do you guys define "TEFL" in Korea? I'm at an international school now but I teach ESL

It's not my area but from what I've heard schools that don't require qualified teacher status, like yours, are usually classified by those in the business as 'fake' international schools. In order to work at a 'real' international school you have to have QTS and usually a couple of years' expereince in your home country. They don't teach EFL at these 'real' internatioal schools, or if they do they employ a teacher already teaching a subject at the school. As I said, international school reddits can give you more info about this.  If you're teaching EFL full time you're an EFL teacher, so your job would be considered part of the TEFL industry in Korea.


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2022, 11:11:56 am »
During normal times they typically require at least an iPGCE. Due to shortages, they just had to drop the requirement recently. What makes an international school 'real' or 'fake'? There's lots of international schools for people from non-native English speaking countries, like French, Germans, etc... Is it the student body?


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2022, 11:25:58 am »
From the International school teachers Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Internationalteachers/

What is an International School?

An International School is traditionally a school for international students that live in a host country not their own. For 'real' international schools, students are the children of other expatriates, or children from the host country that have spent significant time living outside of their country. School curriculum and instruction is given in English. Teachers are typically a mix between local hires that speak English fluently, and international teachers.

However, there are schools and countries that allow students from the host country to attend. While this is not traditional in an international school, it is not uncommon. There are also bilingual schools that may call themselves 'international' - for example, a private school in the Middle East that has mostly all local students with a few classes in English may call themselves an International school. These schools may have a handful of international students.

Teaching at an International school is not the same as teaching TEFL in a school abroad. Please visit the wonderfully helpful community of r/tefl for questions about that.


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2022, 11:43:01 am »
Wow these guys sound... uhh... "fun."


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2022, 11:57:26 am »
It's not my area but from what I've heard schools that don't require qualified teacher status, like yours, are usually classified by those in the business as 'fake' international schools. In order to work at a 'real' international school you have to have QTS and usually a couple of years' expereince in your home country. They don't teach EFL at these 'real' internatioal schools, or if they do they employ a teacher already teaching a subject at the school. As I said, international school reddits can give you more info about this.  If you're teaching EFL full time you're an EFL teacher, so your job would be considered part of the TEFL industry in Korea.

Yes, exactly this.  The difference between being a "TEFL" teacher in Korea, and being able to work at an international school is all about teacher qualifications. If you are qualified to be a career teacher at a public school back home in the US/ Canada/ the UK etc then you can pretty much apply to teach at international schools in Korea, and the work experience is easily transferable back home in case the international school teacher wanted to return back home and continue to teach there. On the other hand, it doesn't take much to be a TEFL teacher in Korea as the requirements are just being a Native speaker from the 7 English Speaking countries, holding a 4 year B.A degree, and a 120-hour TESL certificate. As a TEFL teacher you will be limited to either teaching in the EPIK program as an assistant language teacher, or working at Hakwons, and if you have a Master's Degree, you can try to apply to work at universities.


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2022, 12:56:59 pm »
Wow these guys sound... uhh... "fun."

Yes, unsurprisingly they greatly look down on everyone working in the TEFL industry. A few of them pop up on rtefl fairly regularly, doing similar kind of schtick as Koreaboo.


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2022, 01:19:28 pm »
I don't think teaching only foreign children is a requirement to be an international school. That doesn't really sound industry-standard, and I wouldn't take a SubReddit as an authoritative source. Someone posted a list of the top international schools in China. A lot of them have a lot of Chinese citizens attending, and some international schools, even the ones that are foreigners-only, still require TEFL teachers because not everyone speaks English as a first language. For me, I've always taken the curriculum as the definition. The nationality of the students, in my opinion, is superficial. Guess I have a SubReddit to troll  8)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2022, 08:57:11 pm by Billy Herrington »


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 3673

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • South Gyeongsang province for 13 years (with a 7-year Jeju interlude)
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Life's to live! Live! Breathe. Relax. Enjoy. Animals teach us to focus on family, friends and avoid danger. Get what you need and get along with others. That said, some rock the boat, but they know capsizin' it means they're sunk. Some sink, let's swim! The sea's big, great, but has undercurrents.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4676

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2022, 09:35:05 am »
As the reddit post said, there are several definitions (and licensing) of international schools, depending on the country and situation. Korea and China are similar in that they both have very strict legal requirements for any institution looking to call itself a school first and foremost, and even more restrictions for those that want to call themselves international schools.  And for international schools specifically...

*all students attending MUST have at least one parent who is a foreign passport holder and foreign residency (due to low student numbers, the Korean government allows a certain number of Korean students to attend these schools)

*because these schools cater essentially to "non-citizen" children, they are exempt from having to follow the national curriculum in these countries.

*even though these rules are pretty stringent, there are loopholes to get around them...for example it is common for wealthy parents who can easily afford these fees to "purchase" citizenships abroad for themselves and their families through immigration investment schemes...hence why these schools will still have a high amount of local kids attending.

Other schools that are not "international" in name and licensing are allowed to and do run international programs, either throughout the whole school or one or more departments. These are the schools that will allow local passport holders to attend.

Look at the various lists in the links below and notice how the schools are named (lists of schools for Chinese passport holders and non-Chinese passport holders). Virtually none of the former are actually called "international school"...just variations of "international division", "foreign Language School" etc.

https://www.hurun.net/en-US/Info/Detail?num=WO7GMLBMJQCU
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 09:38:06 am by waygo0k »


  • chimp
  • Super Waygook

    • 276

    • April 19, 2015, 05:16:31 am
    • Zoo
Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2022, 06:10:24 pm »
Yes, unsurprisingly they greatly look down on everyone working in the TEFL industry. A few of them pop up on rtefl fairly regularly, doing similar kind of schtick as Koreaboo.

Odd because teachers in general are pretty dumb and have no right to look down on anyone.
oo oo ahh ahh


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2022, 12:26:46 am »
International school teachers aren't smarter than TEFLers. They just study some theories, most of which will be abandoned in the next 10-20 years.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5988

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2022, 02:02:18 am »
It's always sad when folks decide to flaunt their inferiority complexes.


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2022, 05:59:25 am »
Just make sure you don't work at an "International School" that isn't actually an international school. These places want to hire native English teachers who aren't going to be fluent in Korean legalese or familar with the reputation of a place in a country they've never been to before.

https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170709000269


  • Spliced
  • Waygookin

    • 24

    • August 05, 2022, 12:15:38 am
    • Jeolla
Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2022, 09:29:18 am »
Just make sure you don't work at an "International School" that isn't actually an international school. These places want to hire native English teachers who aren't going to be fluent in Korean legalese or familar with the reputation of a place in a country they've never been to before.

https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170709000269

There are plenty of these soddy dealers on Craigslist, ESL Cafe and accoassinaly ESL ROK.

I really wonder these websites don't do any vetting....(cough, cough..Waygook.org), or, make sure job descriptions don't align with legal requirements.  It seems the overall narrative, is similar to the article when it mentions "no response" from Seoul immigration and inferring to nobody taking responsiblity.


..cough, cough.


Re: Even from 2004...nothing has really changed...except..
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2022, 01:48:43 pm »
What happened to those teachers is so messed up. Kimmi looked at their papers and approved it.