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  • sleepy
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    • April 02, 2013, 03:05:44 pm
EPIK wage increase
« on: June 30, 2022, 11:03:17 am »
2.1 is soon to be minimum wage levels.

http://m.kwnews.co.kr/nview.asp?s=501&aid=222062900149




Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2022, 12:29:22 pm »
While I agree nets need a raise, as korean contract teachers, 2.1 isnít the total compensation though. Thereís housing, the 4 insurances, and severance pay. Itís probably closer to 3 million a month total compensation.

Regardless a raise is certainly needed.


  • hangook77
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2022, 12:48:46 pm »
Many minimum wagers are living at home with their parents or their parents paid a large one room deposit for their kids if they moved to a city.  So, many of them don't pay rent;  So, a free one room, especially an old moldy one, is hardly anything to write home about.  Now if they gave you a large luxurious modern place it may be something to reconsider.  In much of Korea, one rooms range from 300 to 500 k a month with 3 to 5 million won deposits and closer to 10 million in Seoul.  In many cases, if you pay 40 or 50 million won deposit, there is either no monthly rent or very little paid monthly. It's not as big a perk as it's made out to be.  The few academies that give a large modern large sized apartments are exempted from this argument of course.  So, you would be equal to a kid just out of high school or only slightly above him or her in spite of being here for a few years and university educated. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are losers who are blocked.  Good riddance to them. They will still be in Korea 10 years from now unless they are retired.  Either way, they will be poor since all they know how to do is troll rather than work for something more


  • hangook77
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2022, 12:51:43 pm »
While I agree nets need a raise, as korean contract teachers, 2.1 isnít the total compensation though. Thereís housing, the 4 insurances, and severance pay. Itís probably closer to 3 million a month total compensation.

Regardless a raise is certainly needed.

Also remember most academies only pay one way flight now.  So, out of your severance you must pay your own way home.  SMOE doesn't give renewal allowance at all.  A return flight which use to be free.  So, remember you are not making as much money as you think you are.  Plus the exchange rate is falling even worse lately.  You lose money when you send it home plus have less to send home each month. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are losers who are blocked.  Good riddance to them. They will still be in Korea 10 years from now unless they are retired.  Either way, they will be poor since all they know how to do is troll rather than work for something more


  • D.L.Orean
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    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2022, 01:00:42 pm »
Also remember most academies only pay one way flight now.  So, out of your severance you must pay your own way home.  SMOE doesn't give renewal allowance at all.  A return flight which use to be free.  So, remember you are not making as much money as you think you are.  Plus the exchange rate is falling even worse lately.  You lose money when you send it home plus have less to send home each month.

And with flight prices increasing, those flight allowances aren't going to get you all the way home.

The worsening exchange rate is the perfect reason to keep money in Korea and avoid making big purchases on credit cards from back home. It would be annoying to see something like a car get more expensive with each passing month.
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" to me." - hangook77


  • hangook77
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2022, 03:01:42 pm »
And with flight prices increasing, those flight allowances aren't going to get you all the way home.

The worsening exchange rate is the perfect reason to keep money in Korea and avoid making big purchases on credit cards from back home. It would be annoying to see something like a car get more expensive with each passing month.

Yes, you're not wrong on that stuff.  But, this recent drop has caught me with my pants down a bit.  Plus the Diesel surge.  Initially my diesel was cheaper when I got my car last year than my old LPG when Diesel was 1200 a liter.  2100 a liter not so much.  Had to carry some debt.  Used cards back home due to Korean credit for foreigners being inferior.  Though they do have lower rates here when you can get it. 

Just glad I am not gasoline.  Ouchie....
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are losers who are blocked.  Good riddance to them. They will still be in Korea 10 years from now unless they are retired.  Either way, they will be poor since all they know how to do is troll rather than work for something more


  • Lazio
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2022, 05:09:18 pm »
Initially my diesel was cheaper when I got my car last year than my old LPG when Diesel was 1200 a liter.  2100 a liter not so much.

Wait a second! Diesel has never been cheaper than LPG!

Reading it again, you probably meant the overall fuel expenses with the consumption factored in too. And not the price of 1 liter at the pump.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 06:19:32 pm by Lazio »
''Jealous of those who make more, have a 2 bedroom apartment to live in, ride a GIANT mountain bike, and drive a car that gets them around?  Well, I can't help myself.  It's too bad you are jealous of me for you having less. I am at least able to say I am living better than most ESLers '' hangook77


Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2022, 10:17:34 pm »
2.1 is for a 9.5 hour work day, in a month with 22 working days.

If the minimum wage gets much higher, I predict that ESL employers will pay a higher salary but remove the housing benefits.

I give it a few years before the hagwon association starts encouraging this at the meetings that all hagwon owners in Korea are forced to attend.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 10:20:29 pm by StillInKorea »


  • hangook77
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2022, 09:02:58 am »
Wait a second! Diesel has never been cheaper than LPG!

Reading it again, you probably meant the overall fuel expenses with the consumption factored in too. And not the price of 1 liter at the pump.

Yes, I used less fuel as Diesel uses 30% less fuel than gasoline.  When I drove LPG it was 700 to 800 won a liter.  When I first got my diesel it was 1200 won a liter and I was spending less a week in fuel.  But at 2100 won a liter, not so much.  However LPG I see is now around 1100 won a liter?  So, maybe my Diesel would be similar to a new LPG price?  I am only comparing it to my experience of when I drove LPG at 700 to 800 won a liter. 

Funny, I had gasoline years ago and it was all full serve.  Then for years my LPG was too.  Now regular fuel is all self serve.  I had to get use to that again.  That and read Korean menus.  Ha ha. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are losers who are blocked.  Good riddance to them. They will still be in Korea 10 years from now unless they are retired.  Either way, they will be poor since all they know how to do is troll rather than work for something more


  • hangook77
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2022, 09:06:10 am »
2.1 is for a 9.5 hour work day, in a month with 22 working days.

If the minimum wage gets much higher, I predict that ESL employers will pay a higher salary but remove the housing benefits.

I give it a few years before the hagwon association starts encouraging this at the meetings that all hagwon owners in Korea are forced to attend.

I do seem to get slammed on here.  But there really is China with free housing, flight reimbursement, and much higher salaries.  Are young teachers so in love with BTS and K dramas that they put up with any level of nonsense and exploitation?  Now is this hogwan association a mafia or something?  I mean are they all forced into things?  Either way if it gets much worse, surely teachers will finally leave.  Heck one of my cousins has lately been trying to get me to the Alberta oil patch due to good money being made again.  There are definitely options, either ESL in other countries, or completely different fields all together. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are losers who are blocked.  Good riddance to them. They will still be in Korea 10 years from now unless they are retired.  Either way, they will be poor since all they know how to do is troll rather than work for something more


  • D.L.Orean
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    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2022, 09:22:23 am »
I do seem to get slammed on here.  But there really is China with free housing, flight reimbursement, and much higher salaries.  Are young teachers so in love with BTS and K dramas that they put up with any level of nonsense and exploitation?  Now is this hogwan association a mafia or something?  I mean are they all forced into things?  Either way if it gets much worse, surely teachers will finally leave.  Heck one of my cousins has lately been trying to get me to the Alberta oil patch due to good money being made again.  There are definitely options, either ESL in other countries, or completely different fields all together.

you don't get to equate your situation to theirs.

I get that you struggle to understand why people want to come to Korea. But surely you understand why China is unappealing to most?
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" to me." - hangook77


  • hangook77
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2022, 10:04:56 am »
I get that you struggle to understand why people want to come to Korea. But surely you understand why China is unappealing to most?

While Corona is still going on and winding down along with the lockdowns, not so great.  Plus the travel in general to anywhere is a pain.  However, once this is done with, borders, reopen, and such, it can have more appeal.  Lots of folks I knew who went over in the past did say they liked it.  Pollution is bad, but we got a fair bit of it here too.  I am not telling anyone to go, but have pointed out the wage differentials, mind you in country and outside country seem to be two different pay scales right about now.  I had actually posted some wages and converted them to Korean won on a couple of Facebook groups and many teachers were shocked.  They literally didn't know about it and they believed recruiters who told them they can make a lot of money here.  Then they arrived and realized it wasn't true anymore.  I have also posted some tips on how to push for a higher wage and made the statement wages are too low.  Lots of newbie and young foreigners seem to keep liking my comments.  Not scientific, but it does point out that unless Korea changes there will eventually be a breaking point.  Is it here yet, I doubt it.  But it is creaking closer and closer.  Mostly due to corona, closed and semi closed borders, plus the hassle of travelling still make most folks want to hunker down.  For now.  I get there are rich kids who have no student loans and credit card debts to repay.  I seriously doubt that is most young people nowadays as loans are at an all time high.  The current pay does not allow for rapid repayment of debt anymore like it did when you and I got here.  I would like to see young people have the same chances we had when we first got here.  (If anything, I should have gotten here 5 years earlier to really make a difference on that stuff.  But that is another story.)  An older expat who already made their money either here or back home and is now coasting along for 5 or so years till retirement is a different story. 

China will still be unappealing to some no matter what just like Korea was at one time.  Those of us who took the "risk" to come here when it wasn't well known definitely were risk takers.  In 2022, no teacher coming here now is a "risk taker"  Except for recruiters fluffing up the "money" you can make here, most that come seem to already know about Korea unlike those who came over in the past.  So, there is that different demographic.  Sadly, more and more people are in a debt shithole due to teachers pushing kids in school and also due to schools not teaching enough practical skills meaning it's harder to get certain types of jobs.  Universities should be overturned and made into a partial tech school with more classes, more practice, and more practical skills teaching in addition to the "electives".  This would make them more marketable.  Either way, the quicker debt repayment Korea once offered has evaporated.  China is the new Korea.  3 to 5 million won a month.  Easy to send home at least 2500 USD a month.  IN fact with inflation Korea once allowed you to send home around 2000 USD equivalent in today's money.  What now?  500 living comfortably?  800 being really cheap and frugal?  When I say 2000 USD in todays money, you could send more if you were really frugal.  (more like 1500 in that time's money). 

I have also had discussions with a few foreign hakwon owners who like the Koreans have become too complacent and developed shitty attitudes just because they think they can.  They can afford to pay more but don't.  Tells me what I need to know about a lot of people's character.  Making 20 plus million won a month and spending and extra 1.5 million won a month to split between the Korean and foreign English teachers to give them both a fair wage is not too difficult.  Especially where they are charging a lot more money.  They claim "expenses" then clam up when I ask them what expenses.  A lot of them have really shown a very flippant entitled attitude like "how dare you ask for a livjng wage".  It's my right to "pay you low".  I ain't no Marxist tear it down, but this really condescending "know your station in life" arrogant attitude coming off some of these foreign hakwon owners when you mention the pay is too low is a real eye opener.  So, I am sure it is similar amongst Korean owners too.

That said, to the credit of some, there are some academies that do pay upper 2.0's and low 3.0's and some ASAP offers with documents ready, you may be able to push for a higher wage.  But nod your head to the recruiter and pretend to like it.  Then when speaking to the actual owner or manager, put your wage demands out there.  If they are desperate to fill it you may pull off a wage hike.  But you may have to be prepared to be unemployed for a while to get what you want.  There are some options still here, but foreigners have to stick together more and the problem is they don't. 

Of course, if an academy has like 4 hour days with 4 teaching hours and you actually don't have to be there other than teaching, that may be okay for lower pay.  If you get 2.1 or 2.2 for a low hour come in at 1 and go home at 5 type of place, that can be acceptable.  So, wages don't have to be high in every case.  But when some teachers say they are working 45 hours a week both teaching hours and other work outside the classroom for 2.1 to 2.3, that is pure bs.  Pay really needs to be mid 3.0's for that.  At some point, people will finally say they've had enough. 

As for me pay was okay till recently, most of my schools were not too strict until a year or so ago, and I do like the kids for the most part.  My situation is different.  But inflation and declining work conditions are coming for me too.  If you are close to retirement then it is easy to stay and ride it out.  I still have a long way to retirement myself. 



745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are losers who are blocked.  Good riddance to them. They will still be in Korea 10 years from now unless they are retired.  Either way, they will be poor since all they know how to do is troll rather than work for something more


  • D.L.Orean
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    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2022, 10:11:34 am »
While Corona is still going on and winding down along with the lockdowns, not so great........

Remember

you don't get to equate your situation to theirs.

The reasons people didn't want to go to China before covid and won't want to go long after covid is finished are unrelated to money.
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" to me." - hangook77


Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2022, 10:12:58 am »
Now is this hogwan association a mafia or something?  I mean are they all forced into things?

The Hagwon Association operates training courses on behalf of education offices. Hagwon owners, Korean hagwon teachers, and native speakers working at hagwons all have to go to their meetings once a year.

My hagwon received a letter this year about the mandatory meeting. They made it sound like you have to pay 100,000KRW to attend. A Korean teacher called them to check and told them that they were being recorded, at which point they admitted there was no required fee. They still tried to trick us into going to their office to 'pre-register', presumably in the hope of selling us an association membership.

At the meeting, they try again to push you into paying 100,000 to join their association, implying but never explicitly stating that the fee is mandatory. The truth is that attending the meeting they hold is mandatory, but joining their association is not. They try very hard to blur the lines.

The 'training' they provide, which is supposed to inform hagwon owners of legal requirements and responsibilities, is more focused on promoting their association. There's also choice information about things like getting out of severance payments by paying employees a slightly different salary each month.

Hagwon owners are mostly not the slimy people everyone thinks they are. The problem is the Hagwon Association.


  • hangook77
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2022, 10:53:08 am »
The Hagwon Association operates training courses on behalf of education offices. Hagwon owners, Korean hagwon teachers, and native speakers working at hagwons all have to go to their meetings once a year.

My hagwon received a letter this year about the mandatory meeting. They made it sound like you have to pay 100,000KRW to attend. A Korean teacher called them to check and told them that they were being recorded, at which point they admitted there was no required fee. They still tried to trick us into going to their office to 'pre-register', presumably in the hope of selling us an association membership.

At the meeting, they try again to push you into paying 100,000 to join their association, implying but never explicitly stating that the fee is mandatory. The truth is that attending the meeting they hold is mandatory, but joining their association is not. They try very hard to blur the lines.

The 'training' they provide, which is supposed to inform hagwon owners of legal requirements and responsibilities, is more focused on promoting their association. There's also choice information about things like getting out of severance payments by paying employees a slightly different salary each month.

Hagwon owners are mostly not the slimy people everyone thinks they are. The problem is the Hagwon Association.

Why do you have to attend a hagwon association?  Is it a government mandate?  Is it a mafia, come or we break your legs?  I am still confused.  I had a friend run one years ago and never mentioned anything about this group.  Is it new?  What makes it mandatory?  Is it some collusion information session?  Who makes them join?  Sounds like a touch of communism to me.  A free enterprise business must be free to do what it wants in these regards. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are losers who are blocked.  Good riddance to them. They will still be in Korea 10 years from now unless they are retired.  Either way, they will be poor since all they know how to do is troll rather than work for something more


  • hangook77
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2022, 10:55:49 am »
Remember

The reasons people didn't want to go to China before covid and won't want to go long after covid is finished are unrelated to money.

No, lots were leaving Korea and going over a few years ago.  I knew so many who left Korea behind to go over.  They said they liked it though the pollution did suck.  The pay wasn't even what it is now. 

Yes, there are a few rich kids who have no loans to repay and a few older expats who already made their money and are waiting for retirement.  There are a few who also got married here and their spouse won't let them live elsewhere.  But most are not in these situations even though every situation is different. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are losers who are blocked.  Good riddance to them. They will still be in Korea 10 years from now unless they are retired.  Either way, they will be poor since all they know how to do is troll rather than work for something more


  • Kyndo
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2022, 11:44:40 am »
Even more people are *not* going over to China because they have moral reservations about working in a country that is actively perpetuating it's own version of ethnic cleansing, is following aggressive military expansion of its borders, and is gearing up for economic warfare with... well... basically "the West".

Money is nice, but for many of us -- including those of us who aren't particularly well off economically -- there are more important things in life than earning a few extra bucks.

Finally, as has been frequently discussed in earlier threads, there are still *plenty* of economic opportunities in Korea if one has the will to search them out. There is *no* reason why somebody whose primary reason for living in Korea is money should be making less than 3 or 4 million won a month, especially if they've been here for more than a handful of years already.


  • jaehak
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    • June 09, 2011, 10:45:21 pm
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2022, 11:54:19 am »
The truth is that attending the meeting they hold is mandatory

Maybe it's changed, but I was told it was "mandatory" at the 3 hagwons I worked at in Seoul over 5 years (2007-2012) and I never once went. There were zero repercussions. No docked pay, no verbal or written warning, not a curt word from management, and in fact I was renewed or offered renewals at each of these hagwons. I did go to the EPIK ones, but those were held during normal working hours and transpo was re-imbursed.


  • D.L.Orean
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    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2022, 11:55:30 am »
No, lots were leaving Korea and going over a few years ago.  I knew so many who left Korea behind to go over.  They said they liked it though the pollution did suck.  The pay wasn't even what it is now.

Yes, there are a few rich kids who have no loans to repay and a few older expats who already made their money and are waiting for retirement.  There are a few who also got married here and their spouse won't let them live elsewhere.  But most are not in these situations even though every situation is different.

Most people were not leaving for China. Most people do not want to go to China. And it is unrelated to money, or Korean spouses.
"I put quite a few pics online and got rated anywhere from 8.2 to 9.6 by lots of chicks. Of course, I can't claim to have the same looks now though Koreans are always saying "handsome" to me." - hangook77


  • hangook77
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Re: EPIK wage increase
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2022, 12:07:57 pm »
Even more people are *not* going over to China because they have moral reservations about working in a country that is actively perpetuating it's own version of ethnic cleansing, is following aggressive military expansion of its borders, and is gearing up for economic warfare with... well... basically "the West".

Money is nice, but for many of us -- including those of us who aren't particularly well off economically -- there are more important things in life than earning a few extra bucks.

Finally, as has been frequently discussed in earlier threads, there are still *plenty* of economic opportunities in Korea if one has the will to search them out. There is *no* reason why somebody whose primary reason for living in Korea is money should be making less than 3 or 4 million won a month, especially if they've been here for more than a handful of years already.

I'm just telling you lots of folks went over and liked it.  Folks went over for ease of contracts and money going further.  Pay was closer to the same at the time.  Plenty of things not to like in many countries.  They'll do them whether you are there or not.  If you want to stay here and be poor, that is your right.  The point is if more teachers don't move onto other countries or go for things back home where ever the money is then Korea will never smarten up.  Maybe at some point enough teachers here will get sick of the falling wages and get off their duff and go do something about it. 

As for people being killed mistreated, how many Africans and Native Americans got exploited by European powers?  How many killed and how many traded as forced slaves?  What China is and is not doing is not going to take a credible lecture from most western countries with their own histories.  Even though I am against Communism in the traditional sense.  But it is Korea that has adopted the old Commie saying "we pretend to pay them."  Well part of that saying, anyways. 

Some folks will stay and be paid less no matter what.  It was the same when I looked into coming over here.  It was the China at the time where you could make good money.  Had some call center buddies bitching about low pay, harassment from student loans and their lawyers, and working in jobs they hated after going to school.  (Those were the only jobs available in my area.)  I said go to Korea and make more money.  They said, like many teachers here now: "No, we'll stay here and work for less and be poor."  I said: "Okay, suit yourself." 

A few enterprising friend who didn't like making only 2.1 to 2.3 a few years back jumped to China for more pay.  I was making more so had less incentive then to do so.  Some stay where they are due to no gumption.  That is their wish.  A couple of folks back home still doing the same old things grumbling about life.  That is their choice if they don't want to change circumstances and move onto something more.  It is the same choice for those making low pay who want to stay here now.  Fill your boots. 

Most jobs are not paying 4 million won a month in spite of what you said.  Also cost of living is too high now.  Much harder to save compared to the past if you are going to start your own school. 

Otherwise you can tell me how you got to making 4 million won a month.  I am over 3 myself though.  But I am at the ceiling. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are losers who are blocked.  Good riddance to them. They will still be in Korea 10 years from now unless they are retired.  Either way, they will be poor since all they know how to do is troll rather than work for something more