EPIK wage increase

Most people were not leaving for China. Most people do not want to go to China. And it is unrelated to money, or Korean spouses.

No they were.  They told me so and showed me their pics in China.  They did complain about the pollution sometimes though.  But they also had some nice travel pics from around China.  Much more diverse landscape too.  Some also went back home as the economy got better and jobs began to open up pre covid.  When I post something related to pay or wages on local Facebook groups and get more than 100 likes does show most foreigners are getting pissed and word is slowly spreading.  For years it was spread the money was good here so folks kept coming over.  Now word is slowly spreading the other way. 

No they were.  They told me so and showed me their pics in China.  They did complain about the pollution sometimes though.  But they also had some nice travel pics from around China.  Much more diverse landscape too.  Some also went back home as the economy got better and jobs began to open up pre covid.  When I post something related to pay or wages on local Facebook groups and get more than 100 likes does show most foreigners are getting pissed and word is slowly spreading.  For years it was spread the money was good here so folks kept coming over.  Now word is slowly spreading the other way.

I don't think you understand the word 'most'

I have also had discussions with a few foreign hakwon owners who like the Koreans have become too complacent and developed shitty attitudes just because they think they can.  They can afford to pay more but don't.  Tells me what I need to know about a lot of people's character.  Making 20 plus million won a month and spending and extra 1.5 million won a month to split between the Korean and foreign English teachers to give them both a fair wage is not too difficult.  Especially where they are charging a lot more money.  They claim "expenses" then clam up when I ask them what expenses.  A lot of them have really shown a very flippant entitled attitude like "how dare you ask for a livjng wage".  It's my right to "pay you low".  I ain't no Marxist tear it down, but this really condescending "know your station in life" arrogant attitude coming off some of these foreign hakwon owners when you mention the pay is too low is a real eye opener.  So, I am sure it is similar amongst Korean owners too.

Most of them only own a hagwon because they married a local (and often it's the spouse who owns and runs the hagwon), so the elitist attitude is amusing among these types.

Otherwise you can tell me how you got to making 4 million won a month.  I am over 3 myself though.  But I am at the ceiling. 

    When you are saying that you are capped, what you mean is that you have reached the *highest basic pay scale*. There are definitely a number of threads where there has been discussion on ways to significantly  increase one's EPIK income without breaking terms of contract etc!
It takes a bit of networking, and a bit of luck, and definitely talking to the right people, but it *is* possible to make around 4 million a month without killing yourself, especially if you've lived here for more than a couple of years.

I'm just telling you lots of folks went over and liked it.

Oh. Well, *that* I won't argue with. 
 I thought you were insinuating that China was the *objectively* better choice for ESL. "Chacun a son gout" very much applies!

Hankook,   you have been told this many ways, from many different people.  so ill be a simple and clear as possible because it seems that it hasnt gotten to you via other methods.

No one here wants to go to China to teach.

Please stop advocating for it.

their reasons are mostly due to; government oversight, human rights abuses, current cultural genocide,

their reasons are not due to; money.

again. please stop advocating for china. if you want to go there, please do.

Hankook,   you have been told this many ways, from many different people.  so ill be a simple and clear as possible because it seems that it hasnt gotten to you via other methods.

No one here wants to go to China to teach.

Please stop advocating for it.

their reasons are mostly due to; government oversight, human rights abuses, current cultural genocide,

their reasons are not due to; money.

again. please stop advocating for china. if you want to go there, please do.

I didn't advocate for it.  I just said there are options other than Korea.  There's more than one option. 

You are always complaining about the wages here.  How is that working out for you?  Did you get a pay raise yet? 

    When you are saying that you are capped, what you mean is that you have reached the *highest basic pay scale*. There are definitely a number of threads where there has been discussion on ways to significantly  increase one's EPIK income without breaking terms of contract etc!
It takes a bit of networking, and a bit of luck, and definitely talking to the right people, but it *is* possible to make around 4 million a month without killing yourself, especially if you've lived here for more than a couple of years.
Oh. Well, *that* I won't argue with. 
 I thought you were insinuating that China was the *objectively* better choice for ESL. "Chacun a son gout" very much applies!

I do get extra pay and do some extra work.  But that's still no excuse not raising the base pay.  Current EPIK pay levels were last adjusted in 2009.  I'd say it's time.  But if folks stay in Korea and cling to it for dear life, they may not go up.  That's their choice.  Just saying there is higher pay out there in ESL and in other jobs nowadays.  Getting extra work and working more hours is still a cop out for them for not increasing the pay and that is the point.  I make better than most but I still believe wages should go up for the 2.1 to 2.5ers. 

As for better place, depends on where you live and what you are looking for.  China is a large country.  A backwards rural region not so hot.  A coastal Tier 2 city might give the biggest bang for ones buck.  Shenzhen seems to have the worst contracts with lowest pay.  Kind of like Korea a little bit in the bad contracts and pay.  Anyways, plenty of option I guess. 

I never told you to go there.  But some foreigners have been shocked by the pay levels nowadays and really didn't know about it when I posted online.   

Even more people are *not* going over to China because they have moral reservations about working in a country that is actively perpetuating it's own version of ethnic cleansing, is following aggressive military expansion of its borders, and is gearing up for economic warfare with... well... basically "the West".

Money is nice, but for many of us -- including those of us who aren't particularly well off economically -- there are more important things in life than earning a few extra bucks.

Finally, as has been frequently discussed in earlier threads, there are still *plenty* of economic opportunities in Korea if one has the will to search them out. There is *no* reason why somebody whose primary reason for living in Korea is money should be making less than 3 or 4 million won a month, especially if they've been here for more than a handful of years already.

How many native Americans did Spain kill in Latin America?  Are folks not going to teach in Spain now? 

How many native Americans did Spain kill in Latin America?  Are folks not going to teach in Spain now? 

Are the Spanish still *currently* conducting this genocide, or did this happen several hundred years ago under very different political/social/moral/theological conditions?

The CCP of today is *right at this very moment* spending immense amounts of money and human resources to eradicate cultural minorities in its hinterlands.

If you have trouble understanding why so many people seem reluctant to work in a country that offers more money to ESL teachers than Korea does, then I urge you to give this wiki a quick skim:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

Combine this with a surveillance state government that places very stringent limits on free speech, and it's a wonder that so many people *do* actually go to work in China.

I didn't advocate for it.  I just said there are options other than Korea.  There's more than one option. 

You are always complaining about the wages here.  How is that working out for you?  Did you get a pay raise yet? 

I make 4.5 mil a month.
I am given a 2 bedroom apartment to live in
I dont include the cost of the apartment in my salary.
I dont work on weekends.
And I am not being watched by any government agency

I didn't advocate for it. 

You didn't advocate it?!!!  Well, now you've just nudged VanIslander's "Sandra Bullock's career faded away after Speed 2" into second place for this week's most outlandish post.  Advocating for people to go work in China has been your absolute obsession on here. 

And I love that after saying this "you don't get to equate your situation to theirs" you're still going around putting everyone in your shoes, except for the odd rich kid and waygook retiree. 

You didn't advocate it?!!!  Well, now you've just nudged VanIslander's "Sandra Bullock's career faded away after Speed 2" into second place for this week's most outlandish post.  Advocating for people to go work in China has been your absolute obsession on here. 

And I love that after saying this "you don't get to equate your situation to theirs" you're still going around putting everyone in your shoes, except for the odd rich kid and waygook retiree. 

I said China was paying good money and that many young teachers when they realize how much they've been ripped off will go for better pay and contracts.  But I never told you to personally go to China.

suggestion. 

make a new forum where its just titled, "Hankook talks about china"

and anytime you want to mention the word china, you can type it out in there.  that way you dont have to add it in to every single comment about wages, or housing, or cost of living, or truckers, or Qanon, or anything else.  it can be a little safe space for just you to scream into the void about how much you love china.

I make 4.5 mil a month.

Impressive! How'd you pull that off?

Impressive! How'd you pull that off?

ive worked for a hagwon for 5 years consistently and earn 3 mil there,   (2-7pm, or 2-830pm some days)  I also work a kinder, legally with my bosses permission from 10am-12pm for an additional 1.5.

its a long day, but its worth it to bank all the extra cash.  its also not far of travel at all and all of the people I work with are spectacular.

Why do you have to attend a hagwon association?  Is it a government mandate?  Is it a mafia, come or we break your legs?  I am still confused.  I had a friend run one years ago and never mentioned anything about this group.  Is it new?  What makes it mandatory?  Is it some collusion information session?  Who makes them join?  Sounds like a touch of communism to me.  A free enterprise business must be free to do what it wants in these regards. 

The government mandates training sessions (meetings) and outsources them to the Hagwon Association. The Hagwon Association then reports people who don't attend to the education office. The education office punishes the hagwon with points on its licence. Get too many points and your licence is suspended/cancelled.

The meetings are supposed to teach hagwon owners and employees how to follow rules and regulations. In reality, the owners' meeting is more about how wonderful the Hagwon Association is, and how to screw over your employees.

Maybe it's changed, but I was told it was "mandatory" at the 3 hagwons I worked at in Seoul over 5 years (2007-2012) and I never once went. There were zero repercussions. No docked pay, no verbal or written warning, not a curt word from management, and in fact I was renewed or offered renewals at each of these hagwons. I did go to the EPIK ones, but those were held during normal working hours and transpo was re-imbursed.

I called the local education office. They said it was mandatory. This was an owners' meeting and not one of the famous "don't inject marijuana" NET meetings.

2.1 is soon to be minimum wage levels.

http://m.kwnews.co.kr/nview.asp?s=501&aid=222062900149

2.1M a month is poverty. 

It is even lower after your deductions.  I don't include garbage housing as a benefit.  But if you are netting 1.8-1.9M a month after taxes, that is less than 24k a year in Canada or under 20k a year in the U.S.

Truly disgusting.

If you are one of these people who after studying for years to get a degree, and accept such an insulting offer, you only cheapen your value in the eyes of your current and future employers.

2.1M a month is $19,392 a year in USD.

1.9M a month is $17,556 a year in USD.

1.8 M a month is $16,620 a year in USD.

I see people debating working in China. What you guys need to understand is that while monthly salaries are higher, and top jobs are much easier to get, a lot of places won't pay you if there is a lockdown and the students can't study online. I know people who have lost up to 12 months of income in the last two years.

2.1M a month is poverty. 

It is even lower after your deductions.  I don't include garbage housing as a benefit.  But if you are netting 1.8-1.9M a month after taxes, that is less than 24k a year in Canada or under 20k a year in the U.S.

Truly disgusting.

If you are one of these people who after studying for years to get a degree, and accept such an insulting offer, you only cheapen your value in the eyes of your current and future employers.

So you're going to compare salary after deductions in Korea with salary before deductions in America? What?

And you're not including housing as a benefit because you don't feel like it. People who don't like provided housing just take housing allowance, bumping up their salary by 300-400k.

What's next? Are you not including the value of health insurance because you don't like doctors who eat kimchi?

At least be honest in your comparisons.