How often do you have to yell out to prevent a Korean walking into you?

This whole argument would be moot if we just did the sensible thing and banned riding bikes on roads and sidewalks and just limited them to trails and parks like a sane country would. Better for cars and pedestrians both. If cyclists resist, just make it permissible for motorists to sanitize the roads from cyclists.

The 1950s called and wants it's failed infrastructural ideology back. 

Do what progressive countries and municipalities are doing  ban all cars in urban centres while promoting public transport and cycling. Better for health, aesthetics, commute times, and the environment.
If motorists resist, feed them to their own combustion engines! 
Ban the banal bane that is the autobahn!

Regarding your claim that you don't live in Greater Seoul, these gems were posted by you within the last seven days:

1. "My stylist in Itaewon just put his prices up to 10,000 last week.  It was 8,000 in late April."
2. "I think that's a reasonable expectation.  I may apply.  I've been too long in the suburbs of Seoul."

Quit blatantly lying to attempt to win an argument.

To prove me a liar, you would have to show where I claimed I don't live in the Greater Seoul suburbs.  I'm in Gyeonggi on a subway line.  Did you actually just go searching through my old posts to find that?  That's funny.  Not only did I not blatantly lie, I didn't lie at all.  You accused me of having some elitist Seoul attitude.  You made that up to fit a false narrative.  People in many areas of Seoul look down on my suburban location.  You then said I lived in Anyang and I said I don't.  Where's the lie? 

You wrote: "Perhaps you're one of those people who lives in Seoul and thinks it's the entire country."  That's not true.  People in Seoul would not consider me as someone living in Seoul, and I don't say I live in Seoul.  I'm several cities away from even bordering Seoul. 

See how I'm responding to things you actually wrote instead of making something up and then calling you a liar?  Try that.  Instead of standing by your original comments you keep sliding in a different direction in some childish attempt to avoid the fact you're wrong. 

Again, YOU wrote: ""Bikes are supposed to be on the road, technically,"  Some posters said this was incorrect.  You said they were "wrong."  OK, no problem. No one called you a "dick" for saying that.  I countered with "No, you are wrong." You then came back with calling me a dick.  Nice. 

By the way, I was in three separate cities yesterday on three different sidewalks.  Guess what they all had?  Bike lanes!  Were they separated from the road?  Sure were.  Were they separated from the sidewalks?  Sure weren't.  Only some different brick work or just a paint job that stopped at certain intervals as the bike path and pedestrian parts merged.  Also, with one of them the bike lane was on the innermost side away from the car traffic . I see those all over the place and they are continuing to make new ones.  Why?  Because they want cyclists off the road where possible.  So, you were wrong.  In so many places, bikes are NOT supposed to be on the road, technically.  All you've been doing is giving the exception that proves the rule.  Just because they're not in your neighbourhood, doesn't mean they're not out there. 

It's such an odd stance to take that I have to wonder if you're StillinKorea in name only.   

If JUST the UK wanted to fully switch over to electric vehicles, the entire world output of lithium would need to triple.

It's an absolute joke.

The 1950s called and wants it's failed infrastructural ideology back. 

The infrastructure that beat the Soviets and put a man on the moon.

Do what progressive authoritarian and short-sighted countries and municipalities are doing  ban all cars in urban centres

If 90% of your population is urbanized and doesn't know how to drive a car, what are you going to do when the Russkis invade? Probably pass an ordinance forbidding enemy tanks from entering the city without proper inspection.

Better for health, aesthetics, commute times, and the environment.

Not better for moving heavy things. Truly the policy of a people who do not engage in physical labor and do not produce tangible goods, only consume.

Those places should put their money where their mouth is and ban ALL motorized transport- no diplomatic or governmental cars, no motorized police, no motorized ambulances or fire, no delivery, no construction. If they want to bring in heavy materials and goods, those bicycle-riders should have to bring it in themselves on their bike or drag it by rope down the road.

If motorists resist, feed them to their own combustion engines!

The cyclists can fight the motorists for the road, vehicle-to-vehicle. Good luck to them. After a few hundred are turned into a red smear, I think they'll learn.

If JUST the UK wanted to fully switch over to electric vehicles, the entire world output of lithium would need to triple.

It's an absolute joke.

According to a bunch of shiny graphs on the webz, global lithium output looks to have been doubling every 4 years or so anyway, so tripling it in the next 7 or 8 isn't a big deal. Projected global demand will only start to outpace supply around 2030ish.

Anyway, replace lithium batteries with the sodium batteries that are currently (pun) being developed. Plenty of sodium lying around! Problem solved!

I say nuclear-powered cars!

Maybe France can restore the glory of Europe and end its 75-year malaise and be a pioneer on this, given their existing nuclear infrastructure.

The infrastructure that beat the Soviets and put a man on the moon.

Lol Are you claiming that American automotive infrastructure is what caused the US to win the space race?

If 90% of your population is urbanized and doesn't know how to drive a car, what are you going to do when the Russkis invade? Probably pass an ordinance forbidding enemy tanks from entering the city without proper inspection.

Nah. If what has happened in Ukraine is any indicator of things, Russian tank drivers are not very good at reading even when stuff is posted in Cyrillic.
     Anyway, automobiles are terrible for rapid evacuations. Panicked people are notoriously selfish: traffic jams everywhere! Trains, planes, and ferries, mate. Worked for Dunkirk, and granted robust public transport systems, it may work elsewhere as well.
Anyway, what most people will do is blame whichever political party is in power, grumble how it would have never happened had *their* candidate been holding the reins, and then possibly vandalize a few government structures. Meanwhile, the American military will be busy nuking pretty much everything of strategic value in Russia.

Not better for moving heavy things. Truly the policy of a people who do not engage in physical labor and do not produce tangible goods, only consume.

Away with the scarecrows! Reducing automobile traffic would have very little impact on commercial or industrial transportation. Especially if the result is a more developed rail system. If you read the hover-text, you'll note that we're talking about *reducing* automotive traffic and minimizing reliance on roadways, not getting rid of them entirely. That's obviously just not feasible on any short or mid term timeframe.

The cyclists can fight the motorists for the road, vehicle-to-vehicle. Good luck to them. After a few hundred are turned into a red smear, I think they'll learn.

What kind of dumbass, high-school posturing drivel is this? Deny it all you want, but the future is *inevitable*. Personal ICE vehicles are nearing obsolescence. Viva la revolution! Better hope you look good in spandex and those big, clunky, aerodynamic helmets 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT YER GRAND-KIDS GONNA BE BUYING YOU FER CHRISTMAS, POPS!
 

I say nuclear-powered cars!

Those exist, actually. Most of the Mars rovers are powered by radioisotope thermoelectric generators.

Lol Are you claiming that American automotive infrastructure is what caused the US to win the space race?

Yes. And AMERICAN cheese. Rather than waiting ages for 'proper' cheese to melt, we efficiently constructed space-age cheese and thus were able to focus more on important things like landing on the moon and the Boeing 747 and Coca-Cola.

    Anyway, automobiles are terrible for rapid evacuations.

You're correct. In "Old" EUROPE they would more worried about EVACUATIONS, RETREATING and how to SURRENDER. Wouldn't even think to use their bicycles for war like the Vietnamese.

AMERICA on the other hand would be worried about needing cars and trucks to bring people and equipment forward to the front lines to fight with our LEGAL guns and blowing up invading troops with LEGAL tannerite. And because we still had cars, we'd still know a thing or two about rigging one to be a bomb that would kill the invading Chicoms or Russkis or Canadians.

Deny it all you want, but the future is *inevitable*

Only thing that will kill the car will be the flying car. Or the jet pack.

Yes. And AMERICAN cheese. Rather than waiting ages for 'proper' cheese to melt, we efficiently constructed space-age cheese and thus were able to focus more on important things like landing on the moon and the Boeing 747 and Coca-Cola.

WHY NOT JUST POUR SPOILED MILK OVER EVERYTHING????

Wouldn't even think to use their bicycles for war like the Vietnamese.

See? SEE? Bicycles kicked your butt in 'nam... ...AND THEY'LL DO IT AGAIN !!!! JUST YOU WAIT AND SEE!!!!!!!1!!!!

AMERICA on the other hand would be worried about needing cars and trucks to bring people and equipment forward to the front lines to fight with our LEGAL guns and blowing up invading troops with LEGAL tannerite.

They'd have better luck chasing away invaders with their crap cheese. 

Only thing that will kill the car will be the flying car. Or the jet pack.

Singapore is gunning for it!
https://www.volocopter.com/
There have also been murmurs of a similar service to be offered in Seoul.

The answer to the topic question is 7.

7.

Not better for moving heavy things. Truly the policy of a people who do not engage in physical labor and do not produce tangible goods, only consume.

Lots of small farmers in Africa and other places use bikes to transport their goods to distributors or markets. For them, bikes are a godsend.

Supposedly all the people in the car were public school teachers. Rumored to be one of the reasons the MOE discourages car pooling among teachers.

Looks like that car driver had a few seconds and no one behind him for a stretch. He/she could have slammed it into reverse and matted it and possibly avoided the deaths. But that would require being vigilant!

By the way, I was in three separate cities yesterday on three different sidewalks.  Guess what they all had?  Bike lanes!  Were they separated from the road?  Sure were.  Were they separated from the sidewalks?  Sure weren't.  Only some different brick work or just a paint job that stopped at certain intervals as the bike path and pedestrian parts merged.  Also, with one of them the bike lane was on the innermost side away from the car traffic . I see those all over the place and they are continuing to make new ones.  Why?  Because they want cyclists off the road where possible.  So, you were wrong.  In so many places, bikes are NOT supposed to be on the road, technically.  All you've been doing is giving the exception that proves the rule.  Just because they're not in your neighbourhood, doesn't mean they're not out there. 

It's such an odd stance to take that I have to wonder if you're StillinKorea in name only.

I've lived in several southern cities, and they are not as you described. Right now I'm in Jeolla, in a new neighbourhood with middle class high-rise. Essentially a planned mini-city. No bike lanes near my apartment.

Seoulites may think you live 'rural' because you're in the Seoul urban spread, but they're morons and their city is a shithole.

Seoulites may think you live 'rural' because you're in the Seoul urban spread, but they're morons

Yeah, people who think Suwon is rural are really, really dumb.

I'm not asking you to like it, or live there. Or even visit. But if you genuinely think Suwon is rural, you are a moron. Full stop.

Look, really rural.

Lots of small farmers in Africa and other places use bikes to transport their goods to distributors or markets. For them, bikes are a godsend.

You can't feed cities of 10 million on subsistence farmers bringing in an extra bushel of sweet potatoes from their harvest on bicycles in autumn.

You need imported or domestic out-of-season greenhouse grown crops, transported over long distances in an efficient manner, as well as refridgerated/frozen/canned/bulk dry goods. Those require trucks.

City-folk would starve themselves within a month if all their ideas were actually put into practice.

Yeah, people who think Suwon is rural are really, really dumb.
I'm not asking you to like it, or live there. Or even visit. But if you genuinely think Suwon is rural, you are a moron. Full stop.
Look, really rural.

That's ... a really amazing photo. It reminds me of a uni instructor in my area whose hobby is flying drones. He occasionally posts some absolutely gorgeous photos of my town on our FB page. (yes, our town of 25,000 has an active facebook group. We're just that cool.)

Did you snap that, or is it stock from the webz?

Seoulites may think you live 'rural' because you're in the Seoul urban spread, but they're morons and their city is a shithole.

Why did you quote me when you posted that and wrote "rural" in quotations as if you're quoting me?  I never said Seoulites consider my location "rural."  That would be an impossible conclusion to reach.  But, they look down on the suburbs the same way as a Torontonian I look down on places look Burlington or Ajax as places to live.  I don't consider them rural and don't look down on the people, just to be clear.

But, with that Seoul is a shithole sentiment you're expressing, I'm starting to get where your stand on bike lanes is coming from.  Big city envy/resentment?   

That's ... a really amazing photo. It reminds me of a uni instructor in my area whose hobby is flying drones. He occasionally posts some absolutely gorgeous photos of my town on our FB page. (yes, our town of 25,000 has an active facebook group. We're just that cool.)

Did you snap that, or is it stock from the webz?

There are some high rises there where that photo could have been taken from.  On a somewhat side note, that Woncheon Lake area was somewhat rural when I first stumbled upon it while out walking in 2003.  There was this really crappy amusement park type place at one end called Woncheon Resort and some dilapidated looking restaurants on the water. You could also rent those swan pedal boats.  No apartments there whatsoever.  I went on the bumper cars and it was as if someone removed anything that limited the speed.  Didn't have the courage to ride the rusty Ferris wheel.  They had a mini zoo with such exotic creatures as white chickens and some golden retrievers.  When some Korean friends took me there years later to show me a new restaurant they had opened I didn't even recognize I was at the same place.  Great area  to walk around now. 

I went on the bumper cars and it was as if someone removed anything that limited the speed. 

Isn't this a feature and not a bug?

Isn't this a feature and not a bug?

It was great. Could really build up some ramming speed if you could avoid the others cars for a lap. Korea was a little less stringent on the safety codes when this dump was set up.