Read 3528 times

  • Renma
  • Super Waygook

    • 267

    • September 01, 2014, 06:09:42 am
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2022, 03:02:38 pm »
However, as the problem stands today, it just doesn't seem right to require  NETs to have to obtain a university degree which costs thousands of dollars per year and pays them less than a local bus driver or a migrant worker.
In that case, Korean University lecturer positions should be offered to those with Bachelor's Degrees, higher-paid positions/leadership positions for those with M.As, and tenure track for those with PHDs.
EPIK positions could be offered to those with college diplomas (you don't need a full B.A to be an assistant), and then there would be nothing to complain about as the level of expertise and education would justify the pay.
Even a high school graduate with only a high school diploma has most of the qualifications. They have the 21 years behind them that they spent growing up in the Western country as a native speaker with perfect Western pronunciation and intonation as their credential.

In an ideal world, that would be nice. There's no incentive for the public and private sector here to do that however. We aren't owed an automatic cushy existence here for our life choices, and there's no need to raise the pay and benefits when it's proven that people will still take jobs with ever decreasing renumeration. You're better off changing your own circumstance rather than expecting Korea to go against it's own interests to help a tiny entitled group of migrant workers (which is what most of us are) that most Koreans are ambivalent or indifferent towards.

You have a marriage visa however, so you have a ton of options available. The F6 opens more doors than the F2 series, so you can work for whoever will take you and quit whenever you please. You can open a business too I believe, something F2's were formerly allowed to (or turned a blind eye to), but has been cracked down upon recently.


Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2022, 03:22:56 pm »
In an ideal world, that would be nice. There's no incentive for the public and private sector here to do that however. We aren't owed an automatic cushy existence here for our life choices, and there's no need to raise the pay and benefits when it's proven that people will still take jobs with ever decreasing renumeration. You're better off changing your own circumstance rather than expecting Korea to go against it's own interests to help a tiny entitled group of migrant workers (which is what most of us are) that most Koreans are ambivalent or indifferent towards.

You have a marriage visa however, so you have a ton of options available. The F6 opens more doors than the F2 series, so you can work for whoever will take you and quit whenever you please. You can open a business too I believe, something F2's were formerly allowed to (or turned a blind eye to), but has been cracked down upon recently.

Yes, that is true. We are all part of the migrant worker pool, although ESL teachers were once appreciated and considered elite and respected, and now not so much. You are right that there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to change things in favor of the ESL teachers since Korea is a country for Koreans first. If the Hakwon bosses are happy, employed, generating income, paying their taxes.... well then the government is happy. And EPIK is the government sector, and no one ever became rich working for the government whether local or foreign.

Opening up my own 공부방/ study room would be something that I'd consider doing some time in the near future.
It's probably the most profitable option and the one that makes the most financial sense long term.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 963

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2022, 07:27:25 am »
Sorry to disappoint you again detective... I'm not Hangook....
Do you personally know Hangook? Have you met him/her in real life?
What do you want me to do ...face time you so you can see that I'm not him/her ???

Maybe the way we write to express our thoughts of unhappiness looks similar to you? I don't know....

Posting something like this could confirm a few things that you wrote. If it checks out, I owe you an apology and even to hangook. Of course you're not obligated to do it but then I will just go with my assumption about you.
''Jealous of those who make more, have a 2 bedroom apartment to live in, ride a GIANT mountain bike, and drive a car that gets them around?  Well, I can't help myself.  It's too bad you are jealous of me for you having less. I am at least able to say I am living better than most ESLers '' hangook77


Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2022, 07:36:18 am »

Posting something like this could confirm a few things that you wrote. If it checks out, I owe you an apology and even to hangook. Of course you're not obligated to do it but then I will just go with my assumption about you.

That sounds good! I think  I got that ARC with me in my wallet today!
Will be back to update with photo after my morning classes are over!!!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 07:48:08 am by HiddenInKorea »


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 963

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2022, 07:54:05 am »
That sounds good! I think  I got that ARC with me in my wallet today!
Will be back to update with photo after my morning classes are over!!!

Okay, that checks out! Thank you for doing this.

I apologize to HiddenInKorea and Hangook77 for assuming that the two accounts belonged to the same person. I was wrong.

I will be back later with some answers about the F-6 visa. Although my card was issued just a few months ago, I actually obtained my visa more than 10 years ago. Just the old one had no more space on the back to put yet another new address on it. So I got a brand new card at my last renewal.

''Jealous of those who make more, have a 2 bedroom apartment to live in, ride a GIANT mountain bike, and drive a car that gets them around?  Well, I can't help myself.  It's too bad you are jealous of me for you having less. I am at least able to say I am living better than most ESLers '' hangook77


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2022, 08:03:46 am »
^

Here exists a rare example of *proof* that it's possible to admit to having made an error online.

In the unlikely event that I'm ever mistaken, I hope that I can be equally gracious.  :smiley:


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 963

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2022, 08:41:26 am »
^

Here exists a rare example of *proof* that it's possible to admit to having made an error online.

In the unlikely event that I'm ever mistaken, I hope that I can be equally gracious.  :smiley:

The least I can do is own my mistake. It doesn't take much. I admit I was kind of a jerk about this, because I was so sure. But turns out, I was wrong.
''Jealous of those who make more, have a 2 bedroom apartment to live in, ride a GIANT mountain bike, and drive a car that gets them around?  Well, I can't help myself.  It's too bad you are jealous of me for you having less. I am at least able to say I am living better than most ESLers '' hangook77


Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2022, 08:57:48 am »
Okay, that checks out! Thank you for doing this.

I apologize to HiddenInKorea and Hangook77 for assuming that the two accounts belonged to the same person. I was wrong.

I will be back later with some answers about the F-6 visa. Although my card was issued just a few months ago, I actually obtained my visa more than 10 years ago. Just the old one had no more space on the back to put yet another new address on it. So I got a brand new card at my last renewal.



No worries, apology accepted!

I have nothing against Hangook77, as a previous E-2 visa holder (I am assuming Hangook77 is here on an E-2 visa/ or maybe another F series visa like an F-2??) since posting an F-6 ARC card was sufficient proof to distinguish myself),
I really do sympathize with Hangook77 on things regarding depreciating ESL wages, diminishing opportunities, and just being limited in opportunities considering a Western ESL teacher is someone that the Korean government decides to grant a visa to for providing a specialized skill. 

Also, I feel bad for Hangook77, it seems there are so many on here that are strongly against and out to get him/ her on here :(

Edit- I am honestly curious as to whether or not people on here know Hangook77 in real life and if Hagook has done anything extremely seriously offensive to anyone. To me, the posts just come off as being fed up and unsatisfied with the Korean system, but also powerless do do anything to fight it as a solo 외국인 ,with  no back up from anywhere.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 09:02:34 am by HiddenInKorea »


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2378

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2022, 09:11:02 am »
No worries, apology accepted!

I have nothing against Hangook77, as a previous E-2 visa holder (I am assuming Hangook77 is here on an E-2 visa/ or maybe another F series visa like an F-2??) since posting an F-6 ARC card was sufficient proof to distinguish myself),
I really do sympathize with Hangook77 on things regarding depreciating ESL wages, diminishing opportunities, and just being limited in opportunities considering a Western ESL teacher is someone that the Korean government decides to grant a visa to for providing a specialized skill. 

Also, I feel bad for Hangook77, it seems there are so many on here that are strongly against and out to get him/ her on here :(

Edit- I am honestly curious as to whether or not people on here know Hangook77 in real life and if Hagook has done anything extremely seriously offensive to anyone. To me, the posts just come off as being fed up and unsatisfied with the Korean system, but also powerless do do anything to fight it as a solo 외국인 ,with  no back up from anywhere.

I have nothing against Hangook77, but he just has a habit of turning any subject into a debate about current wages and conditions here. For some countries, like SA and NZ, wages and benefits are pretty decent, for US it's getting worse, and pointing out that: some countries have favorable exchange rates with Korea, or people pointing out that they are making more than 2.1 - is often seen by them, as defending low wages and stuff. I do get that he comes off as being fed up with current stuff, but s/he also won't accept view points from those where the wage exchanges favorably compared to the US, and that can get a bit annoying, but does provide more stuff to read during the day.


  • yolopopo
  • Adventurer

    • 31

    • June 01, 2018, 10:25:05 am
    • South Korea
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2022, 11:54:26 am »
At its core, the E-2 visa is not designed for long-term use. For the vast majority, this will be true. It is used for a year, maybe 2. This is reflected in the programs or businesses which use the E-2, primarily; EPIK and hagwons, both institutions having very basic requirements to qualify/apply.

Now, if you are fresh out of uni, want to do a year in a different country then Korea is an absolute win.

Enjoy a new culture, meet new people, party, have no work concerns, easily save (let's pluck out a number of 700,000 a month), and do a job that...well c'mon...it's pretty easy (isn't that why people stay? That or married).

If you do decide to say Korea is 'home', then, like you would in your home country, wouldn't you start to plan how you are going to sustain yourself (possibly a family too) long term? Easy to see then that any job on an E-2 (long-term) is a dead end.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 963

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2022, 12:02:07 pm »
Maybe a better thing to ask here..
What are the job prospects/ salaries like for those who are on an F- series visa?
Is it possible to make 50,000 or more an hour doing temporary short-term substitute work for hagwons or universities?
Is it sustainable?
Also, with an F visa we are no longer tied down to doing only Engish teaching jobs, right?

There are many smaller hagwons that don't need a full-time foreign teacher. So they just hire someone for 1 or 2 afternoons/week. These are not substitute or temporary positions. They can go on for long term as well.
Basically there are hagwon positions from around 2pm to 6-7-8 pm. With some luck, 4-5 block hours can be secured at one location.
Before that, one could schedule some kindergarten/business English classes. Kinders would be shorter hours, normally 10am to noon or so. And then the evening hours can be filled up with some privates.

In over 10 years here, I never had a full-time job. Currently I work for 6 different places, which means some variety in my daily routine. Not to mention that my income is coming from 6 different sources, so it's more secure than having a single job.
My strategy is to fill the afternoons with decent paying block hours at hagwons. That's the bulk of my hours and therefore income. And add some shorter, but high paying extra jobs to a few mornings. But no more than 2 locations a day. I find that at around 30 hours a week, it's starting to get demanding both physically and mentally so I make sure to keep it at around 25. I actually never worked over 30 hours/week. Different people can handle different workloads though. Currently I have 28 hours a week which is kind of pushing my comfortable limit, but some hours can drop in the future. And I'm being paid well to endure it so that is why I agreed to do a few extra hours recently. I was doing 21-23 hours for the past 2 years. It was super manageable but with less money of course.

The F-6 visa allows you to do pretty much anything. Most of my closest foreign friends have never been teaching in Korea.
''Jealous of those who make more, have a 2 bedroom apartment to live in, ride a GIANT mountain bike, and drive a car that gets them around?  Well, I can't help myself.  It's too bad you are jealous of me for you having less. I am at least able to say I am living better than most ESLers '' hangook77


Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2022, 06:28:00 pm »
There are many smaller hagwons that don't need a full-time foreign teacher. So they just hire someone for 1 or 2 afternoons/week. These are not substitute or temporary positions. They can go on for long term as well.
Basically there are hagwon positions from around 2pm to 6-7-8 pm. With some luck, 4-5 block hours can be secured at one location.
Before that, one could schedule some kindergarten/business English classes. Kinders would be shorter hours, normally 10am to noon or so. And then the evening hours can be filled up with some privates.

In over 10 years here, I never had a full-time job. Currently I work for 6 different places, which means some variety in my daily routine. Not to mention that my income is coming from 6 different sources, so it's more secure than having a single job.
My strategy is to fill the afternoons with decent paying block hours at hagwons. That's the bulk of my hours and therefore income. And add some shorter, but high paying extra jobs to a few mornings. But no more than 2 locations a day. I find that at around 30 hours a week, it's starting to get demanding both physically and mentally so I make sure to keep it at around 25. I actually never worked over 30 hours/week. Different people can handle different workloads though. Currently I have 28 hours a week which is kind of pushing my comfortable limit, but some hours can drop in the future. And I'm being paid well to endure it so that is why I agreed to do a few extra hours recently. I was doing 21-23 hours for the past 2 years. It was super manageable but with less money of course.

The F-6 visa allows you to do pretty much anything. Most of my closest foreign friends have never been teaching in Korea.

Nice to hear that we can have complete freedom when it comes to employment!

I am hoping to make a transition from EPIK to multiple part time Hakwon work, get some experience with students of all  ages, try out different types of curriculum, and learn some management strategies, and hopefully
run a small study room later on as that seems as the best option so far.

Can I ask what industries are your foreign friends working in? Did they have to go back to University here to learn Korean and credentials to work in their jobs?
The only work that I know of that doesn’t require Korean skills is ESL and the factory work.


  • Renma
  • Super Waygook

    • 267

    • September 01, 2014, 06:09:42 am
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2022, 08:24:39 am »
If you're married to a Korean and intending to settle down here, you probably want to learn Korean.


Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2022, 09:38:53 am »
If you're married to a Korean and intending to settle down here, you probably want to learn Korean.

I know, I have been working on learning Korean before coming here, mostly through self-study and befriending Korean international students back while I was in college.
So far I can understand up to a mid - intermediate level of Korean. I can understand 80% or more of all the conversations my co-teachers have in the office and comfortably communicate with my husband's parents, inlaws etc.
However, I am nowhere near Tyler Rasch's level of Korean, but would love to get there one day!

I need to make money, so I can't really take months off to attend the full-time language programs here, but do want to take part in online Kiip, and continue to improve through exposure and immersion.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 963

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: What's the lowest salary for an E2?
« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2022, 11:18:42 am »
Nice to hear that we can have complete freedom when it comes to employment!

I am hoping to make a transition from EPIK to multiple part time Hakwon work, get some experience with students of all  ages, try out different types of curriculum, and learn some management strategies, and hopefully
run a small study room later on as that seems as the best option so far.

Can I ask what industries are your foreign friends working in? Did they have to go back to University here to learn Korean and credentials to work in their jobs?
The only work that I know of that doesn’t require Korean skills is ESL and the factory work.

There are the ones that studied at Korean universities, either as exchange students or doing a full master's. So of course they speak Korean well. But apart from them, I know some that didn't speak Korean almost at all when they started working here.

One guy is an engineer. He was working for a Korean tire company back home. That's how he met his wife. They ended up in Korea. He even worked some odd jobs like restaurants and such at the beginning, just to keep himself occupied. Later he got a job at a smallish company that manufactures some car parts. The fact that he worked for a Korean company before was probably a great plus. He speaks basic Korean but he mostly uses English at work as he deals with customers from other countries. When he got the job he knew survival Korean at best. The money he makes is nothing to write home about though. He gave up a promising career back home. But that way his wife didn't need to give up hers so she is now making a ton of money working for a global company.

Another one came here and was in finance for a while. At that time he didn't speak much beyond very beginner Korean. Over time he became fluent and worked in other fields too. He is now working for his own government but in Korea.
''Jealous of those who make more, have a 2 bedroom apartment to live in, ride a GIANT mountain bike, and drive a car that gets them around?  Well, I can't help myself.  It's too bad you are jealous of me for you having less. I am at least able to say I am living better than most ESLers '' hangook77