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  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2022, 11:50:15 am »
I keep getting warnings every time I reply to illogicalness of folks comments on this.  I am not sure why so many long termers are so apologetic and defensive about Korea no matter how bad it gets.  It's a kind of irrational Stockholm Syndrome I can't get or understand.  Anyways, in spite folks who make excuses and defend it non stop, this current state of affairs is inexcusable.  The only thing Korea has going for it in the short term is that it is easier to get into, but once coronavirus is done, a mass exodus needs to happen to make Korea smarten up.  Everyone else got their pay raised except for the English teachers which shows how much more respect they have for every other worker and how little respect they have for us.  So, keep defending it.  It's dumb to do so.  But, you'll do it anyways. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2022, 12:02:27 pm »
 Mod logs show that you've only received one warning this year.
That's a bit strange considering that you tend to use a fair bit of profanity and ad hominems, both of which are against this site's TOS.
The mods must like you.  :smiley:


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2312

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2022, 12:03:09 pm »
I keep getting warnings every time I reply to illogicalness of folks comments on this.  I am not sure why so many long termers are so apologetic and defensive about Korea no matter how bad it gets.  It's a kind of irrational Stockholm Syndrome I can't get or understand.  Anyways, in spite folks who make excuses and defend it non stop, this current state of affairs is inexcusable.  The only thing Korea has going for it in the short term is that it is easier to get into, but once coronavirus is done, a mass exodus needs to happen to make Korea smarten up.  Everyone else got their pay raised except for the English teachers which shows how much more respect they have for every other worker and how little respect they have for us.  So, keep defending it.  It's dumb to do so.  But, you'll do it anyways. 
We get it, you want higher pay, and want to leave Korea. Don't need to harp on about how dumb we are. We know we're dumb, I'm pretty dumb myself.


  • KoreaBoo
  • Expert Waygook

    • 703

    • May 25, 2014, 04:00:42 pm
    • Vancouver Island
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2022, 12:58:15 pm »
To be fair, you made that much in Korea because you chose to work 10-12? a week. So you shouldn't really compare it to a 40h/week job.
On your visa, you could've made twice that with a 25h/workload.

I worked as much as I wanted to (which is next to none).  No matter how much you make here, their reality is that you are still 'here' in Korea.  Don't get me wrong though.  I still have my home there, my F-5 visa is still active, and I have my own personal business affairs.  But when I return to Canada, the air is clean, I *rarely* ever hear anyone clear their throat to spit, and do not experience the driving reality that I do in Korea.

Also, why would I want to work 25hrs?  It is a miserable existence that will ultimately make you poor and nearly homeless in the future.  In a few years I'll be near $130k/yr.  A solid pension when I retire at nearly $65-68/yr when I retire (indexed to inflation) and I live in a proper society that will not bleed me dry when I get sick and have to go to the hospital.  Also, the society here is FAR happier and more professional than what I experienced in Korea.  Even my wife (who is still working for the ROK MOJ has realized this after being here for 3 months) understands this...

So sure.... I *could* make more...but I'm still making 2x more than what you suggested and living a much better quality of life.



  • Renma
  • Super Waygook

    • 350

    • September 01, 2014, 06:09:42 am
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2022, 12:59:43 pm »
^Cool.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 990

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2022, 08:26:12 pm »
I worked as much as I wanted to (which is next to none).  No matter how much you make here, their reality is that you are still 'here' in Korea.  Don't get me wrong though.  I still have my home there, my F-5 visa is still active, and I have my own personal business affairs.  But when I return to Canada, the air is clean, I *rarely* ever hear anyone clear their throat to spit, and do not experience the driving reality that I do in Korea.

Also, why would I want to work 25hrs?  It is a miserable existence that will ultimately make you poor and nearly homeless in the future.  In a few years I'll be near $130k/yr.  A solid pension when I retire at nearly $65-68/yr when I retire (indexed to inflation) and I live in a proper society that will not bleed me dry when I get sick and have to go to the hospital.  Also, the society here is FAR happier and more professional than what I experienced in Korea.  Even my wife (who is still working for the ROK MOJ has realized this after being here for 3 months) understands this...

So sure.... I *could* make more...but I'm still making 2x more than what you suggested and living a much better quality of life.

Not sure why you need to bring up society's happiness and air pollution, when I just pointed out that you essentially compared a part-time workload and therefore pay, to a full-time one.
Also, 5.4 is not half of 8.2 but you must know it better.

Funny how one's perspective changes over time. When you lived in ''polluted'' Korea, you considered your ''castle in the sky, kia morning, 2.7million'' lifestyle the non plus ultra. Now it's all forgotten.
The same way, you think a 25h/week workload is ''miserable existence'', yet neither 10 hours nor 40 hours are considered as such by you, since you've done those. Interesting standards you've got there.

Btw. Ever imagined how much you would be making now if you started a career back home right after graduating, instead of hiding from your student loan payments in Korea for 2 decades? That would be something to brag about.


  • KoreaBoo
  • Expert Waygook

    • 703

    • May 25, 2014, 04:00:42 pm
    • Vancouver Island
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2022, 04:28:32 am »
Not sure why you need to bring up society's happiness and air pollution, when I just pointed out that you essentially compared a part-time workload and therefore pay, to a full-time one.
Also, 5.4 is not half of 8.2 but you must know it better.

Funny how one's perspective changes over time. When you lived in ''polluted'' Korea, you considered your ''castle in the sky, kia morning, 2.7million'' lifestyle the non plus ultra. Now it's all forgotten.
The same way, you think a 25h/week workload is ''miserable existence'', yet neither 10 hours nor 40 hours are considered as such by you, since you've done those. Interesting standards you've got there.

Btw. Ever imagined how much you would be making now if you started a career back home right after graduating, instead of hiding from your student loan payments in Korea for 2 decades? That would be something to brag about.

You are correct.  It is a 51.8% increase at my current paygrade.  My pay increases by 300k/mo each year + inflation, so the percentage will increase over time.

I suspect you are not happy with the happiness and pollution aspect being introduced, because you know that it is a *very* strong negative factor that influences the quality of life in Korea.  My 'castle' in Korea is an awesome place to live.  The environment outside it when the air is bad is not.  The surrounding grounds are decent as there is mostly green around me.  Imagine being in a place where everyone was happy, the air was clean and people just enjoyed working and living during their daily lives.  That is not something that is a normal experience in Korea.  As for my lifestyle choices in Korea, I was very comfortable because I made my personal choices that way. 

If I had stayed in Canada, I am sure I may be making more, but the cost of that would be that I would have never met my wife.  That is one benefit that made my time in Korea worth it.  As for my student loans, I have no student loans.  I have no debt except for my Rav4.  So I guess owning a home, having next to no debt and a very bright future IS something to brag about!   :)


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6161

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2022, 08:38:05 am »
Imagine being in a place where everyone was happy, the air was clean and people just enjoyed working and living during their daily lives... a very bright future IS something to brag about!   :)
Those shades your wearing for your bright future must be rose-tinted.



  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2022, 10:44:36 am »
Mod logs show that you've only received one warning this year.
That's a bit strange considering that you tend to use a fair bit of profanity and ad hominems, both of which are against this site's TOS.
The mods must like you.  :smiley:

While I appreciate that sentiment.  I use very little profantity.  Like no F bombs or b words.  I may have used BS for short but everyone uses that nowadays.  idiot is not a swear word last time I checked.  (Which I did imply many of the new far left are nowadays.  Crazy and illiberal they are.  Extremists, etc are all things I have refereed to them as.  Society has gone off the deep end.  It's idiotic.  If that's a swear word, it's news to me.) 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2022, 11:10:18 am »
Calling somebody an idiot would not be using profanity, no, but it would be an ad hominem, which are also frowned upon by the powers that be.


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2022, 12:47:24 pm »
Calling somebody an idiot would not be using profanity, no, but it would be an ad hominem, which are also frowned upon by the powers that be.

I did use the phrase "arguing with idiots" which did not mention any specific member by name.  More an indictment on a certain line of arguments.
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2022, 01:42:31 pm »
Uh huh.
My parents invariably grounded me when I got caught tearing up my siblings and used that line.
Let's just say that I was a very grounded individual. Extremely down to earth. Solid foundations. Deeeeeep roots.
:laugh:


  • KoreaBoo
  • Expert Waygook

    • 703

    • May 25, 2014, 04:00:42 pm
    • Vancouver Island
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2022, 09:46:14 am »
Those shades your wearing for your bright future must be rose-tinted.



I don't need to have shades to see my future.  I spent a bit of last week looking at homes to buy.  What can we buy with a minimal to non-existent mortgage.  If you're flexible about where you live, you can live quite well in large home with mobility if you're willing to drive (as needed) to a larger city.  I found myself sleeping more.  My wife is happy and has realized that the future has more fun than we anticipated.  What is strange is that we could just keep our home in Korea and I would retire there with nearly double my uni salary in retirement (approx 55-65M/yr indexed to inflation).  But what is the price?  We are living in smog.  Hospitals generally suck in quality of care regardless of how fast they serve you.  The leisure culture is gone and people are generally not happy as they are chasing income.  Endless Korean commercials about borrowing money and those horrific TV shows where they sit around cooking and next-to-retarded comedies.

No thanks.  I would prefer to live on this side of the Pacific.  Cleaner air, better quality of healthcare, clean food, no medical expenses, cheaper gas, larger vehicles, happier society in general, a more significant leisure culture.

Today my spouse got her DL and health card here in BC.  She has her PR and can stay as long as she wishes.  No restrictions while here.  Why would I want her to give that up? 


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2022, 11:10:14 am »
She has her PR and can stay as long as she wishes.  No restrictions while here.  Why would I want her to give that up? 

As somebody who lived as a PR in Canada for a while, i just want to make sure that you and your wife realize that there are one or two pretty significant restrictions.

The first that comes immediately to mind is that she wont be able to vote, which isn't a huge deal, I guess.

The second and more important one is that you automatically lose your permanent residency if you spend more than 2 out of the last 5 years out of country. I had to quit my contract in Japan early so that I would retain my permanent residency. That letter I got in the post from the can gov was pretty scary!

You're probably already aware of this, but I thought it's important enough that it would be a good idea to make sure.  :smiley:


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 990

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #75 on: April 20, 2022, 11:57:20 am »
No medical expenses  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-the-real-cost-of-free-health-care-in-canada-report

Plus the service sucks and the shortages are quite extreme.  Apparently the UK has some of these problems too.  Both countries are 100% free when they really can't afford it.  Most of the other "socialist" countries have more of a mixed system with government pay, private insurance, and user pay.  Still multi payer, but with some regulations to keep costs reasonable (not free).  I believe Korea is somewhat close to France on this model.  These other countries don't have shortages.  Service, I guess you can argue on, but better than Canada much of the time.  (Well, maybe depending on which province you live in.)
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #76 on: April 20, 2022, 12:32:56 pm »
A lot of interesting medical system rankings out there.
Amazingly, in one of the 2 most respected ranking systems, South Korea places at number 1.  :shocked:
That same system puts Australia and the UK in the top 10, and the other English speaking countries further down (NZ=16, Can=23, US=30, SA=53, Ireland=80 etc).

Here's a cool site that shows how the countries are ranked according to the most popular ranking systems. Determining factors are described for each system of ranking:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #77 on: April 20, 2022, 01:43:09 pm »
A lot of interesting medical system rankings out there.
Amazingly, in one of the 2 most respected ranking systems, South Korea places at number 1.  :shocked:
That same system puts Australia and the UK in the top 10, and the other English speaking countries further down (NZ=16, Can=23, US=30, SA=53, Ireland=80 etc).

Here's a cool site that shows how the countries are ranked according to the most popular ranking systems. Determining factors are described for each system of ranking:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world


I've never been to the UK.  But some folks who lived in both Canada and the UK said the systems were similarly "backed up" though the UK may be slightly better than Canada.  Some Koreans I know of or who know others said they had friends who married UKers.  They lived in Britian and had surgery scheduled but the wait lists were insanely ridiculous.  A Korean national married to a Brit, I mean.  They opted to fly back to Korea and pay some money to get the surgery done in Seoul after waiting too long there.  Rankings can be subjective. 

I can tell you from experience and based on others that Korea is better than Canada.  But some Canadians find the idea of paying even 5 dollars against their indoctrinated religion and will flip out.  I remember getting an endoscopy and colonoscopy plus anesthetic  for 200 thousand won.  I went in on a Tuesday and had it done at a specialized hospital on a Saturday.  In Canada you go to your doctor which can take 3 or 4 months to get in and then get referred to a specialist which takes 9 or 10 months more, then get scheduled for these procedures at the local hospital several months later.  You also cannot opt to pay extra for anesthetic (that would be unequal).  So, to save money you must be awake for this.  Which is BS.  I could never do that awake.  Not down the throat anyways.  A girl I know how to wait almost two years to get this done.  I did mine within a week.  Still she flipped out that I had to pay 200 bucks.  I was told by US relatives 2 to 4 thousand dollars (which is a bit ridiculous and you know every middle man is getting their cut along the way).  She did also complain about the wait times.  But wouldn't pay a small fee to speed it up.  Completely messed up many Canadians mindsets. 

I sum up Korea as being cheap and fast.   But like any place with private medicine in any form, do your research and get referrals.  Not all services are equal or of the same quality or have the same competence.  Very much a Dr. Nick scenario like you see on the old Simpsons clips. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4683

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2022, 08:00:51 pm »
The UK was no.1 (or top 3) for years up until about 3 years ago, which was 9 years after the conservative ruled government started gutting funding for public services (NHS included) and selling parts off to their donors, business partners and friends for pennies on the pound.

Sadly a sizeable hate-filled portion of our gullible at-large population voted for more of this gutting of public assets (amongst other things in the general election of 2019)…and here we are, now 12 going on 13 years of conservative rule, and all we have to show for it is self imposed sanctions, a buckling healthcare system, being on the brink of another recession, and a scandal filled government that would make most banana republics blush.


  • KoreaBoo
  • Expert Waygook

    • 703

    • May 25, 2014, 04:00:42 pm
    • Vancouver Island
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2022, 11:48:58 am »
As somebody who lived as a PR in Canada for a while, i just want to make sure that you and your wife realize that there are one or two pretty significant restrictions.

The first that comes immediately to mind is that she wont be able to vote, which isn't a huge deal, I guess.

The second and more important one is that you automatically lose your permanent residency if you spend more than 2 out of the last 5 years out of country. I had to quit my contract in Japan early so that I would retain my permanent residency. That letter I got in the post from the can gov was pretty scary!

You're probably already aware of this, but I thought it's important enough that it would be a good idea to make sure.  :smiley:

The bolded statement is absolutely incorrect.  I don't know where you got your info, but you would have made better choices in life if you actually went to the source before making statements that destroy any credibility you claim of to have as an authority.

To maintain residency, my wife needs to have stayed in Canada for a total fo 730 days out of 5 years.  Period.

The reference is here (from the gov't itself).    https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=727&top=10

I knew this long before we applied.  What you just spouted in your somewhat condescending tone was completely false.  Your claim of losing it by being out of the country for 2 years is also completely false.  Despite the fact she will return to Korea in a few years, she will have the time in Canada to keep her residency.  The next 5 years will see her here permanently.  Of course, we will travel to and from Korea when on holiday, but we are not concerned with this as time being spent with me outside the country is considered as time in Canada.

Please know your facts before you speak.  It really damages your credibility.