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  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2312

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2022, 11:50:33 am »
You must be drinking the apologist kool aid. 

Either way, Korea use to pay a good wage and the side hustle was optional.  they also use to roll out the welcome mat to make the foreigners feel welcome and now they don't. 

It's pure BS and most folks should vote with their feet and leave once covid is done.  F this racist place.
You overestimate our value in Korea. Koreans don't care about us. If all foreign teachers left Korea tomorrow, it really wouldn't matter, Korea will still carry on.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2022, 12:00:18 pm »
You must be drinking the apologist kool aid. 

What kool-aid?
How are we important to Korean politics?
Do you disagree that NETs are a very tiny, voiceless minority?

It can be difficult, but it's best to have a realistic sense of one's position in society, else you'll end up in a very poor bargaining position when you try to leverage non-existent social-capital.

I'm not saying I like things the way they are, or that things are "fair", or what have you. I'm just stating the blindingly obvious: things aren't what they were, and if you want to make a decent wage, you need to be pro-active about it.  :undecided:


Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2022, 12:15:42 pm »
  F this racist place.
breaking News: Man who thinks country should revolve around him accuses said country of racism.


Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2022, 12:19:24 pm »
There are differences, I know, but I think a lot of people forget all the programmes etc that their parents put them through back when they were young.

This. Most people have this image of elementary kids going through hours of Hellwons. Usually for most it's the subject they suck at the most, maybe the subject they're the best in and actually enjoy, plus 1-2 hobby hagwons.

Now as they get older that can change, but a lot of NETs freak out over kids in hagwons for no reason.


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2022, 12:33:44 pm »
What kool-aid?
How are we important to Korean politics?
Do you disagree that NETs are a very tiny, voiceless minority?

It can be difficult, but it's best to have a realistic sense of one's position in society, else you'll end up in a very poor bargaining position when you try to leverage non-existent social-capital.

I'm not saying I like things the way they are, or that things are "fair", or what have you. I'm just stating the blindingly obvious: things aren't what they were, and if you want to make a decent wage, you need to be pro-active about it.  :undecided:

Korea use to be a good gig.  Now it isn't.  They got arrogant and condescending and took us for granted.  Once covid is done, there are plenty of other options out there to be had.  Korea had better smarten up or learn the hard way. 

These are some Facebook ESL job groups for China:

ESL English Teachers Jobs

Teaching Jobs in China

Teaching Jobs in Asia

ESL Teacher China

ESL Job in China and Taiwan

TeachChina

ShenzhenJobsForeign

ESL Teaching jobs in China

China work visa,Internship & Job

ESL jobs in China/Teach English

ESL jobs in China (Beijing, Shanghai

English Teachers in China



If you like Vietnam instead:

English Teaching Jobs in Vietnam

English Teaching Jobs in Hanoi

English Teaching Jobs in Vietnam (The Original)

teaching English jobs and other jobs for foreigners in Vietnam


Lots of good paying offers to be had with cheaper living costs and more relaxed work conditions, especially the public school gigs.

745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2022, 12:44:47 pm »
In my opinion the Facebook groups are better than Daves.  But this is an example of a decent listing.  Some are ESL public schools.  Some of them do advertise desk warming though they may not enforce it.  However longer vacations and quite high pay.  (Also I don't think they nickle and dime your leave earlies like they have started doing here recently.)
 30 thousand rmb in some cases. 

30000 rmb is 5,771,403.00 krw.  Not sure if Korea is just ignorant, arrogant, or stupid that they think they can pull their low pay bs with this going on next door.  Only thing holding back is the pain in the @$$ covid restrictions.  Once that is done, Korea needs to experience a mass exodus to learn humility and to humble itself.  They will then have to give better contracts and raise the pay a lot of lose more and more teachers. 

ze=" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/high-paying-jobs-of-primarymiddlehigh-schools?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2022, 02:04:15 pm »
Korea use to be a good gig.  Now it isn't.  They...
Yes, I agree. Most people who have been in Korea for more than a few years agree.
But this has nothing to do with our ascribed value.

How is it "drinking the apologist kool-aid" to acknowledge that there is very little reason for Korean employers to raise ESL wages in Korea, and that we, as NETs currently have very little power to change this?

It's unpleasant, but it's the reality we live in, at the moment.   :undecided:

    We have 3 choices:
  - A: be content with (the steadily decreasing) the amount of money that you're earning
  - B: find greener pastures
  - C: be proactive about finding ways to increase your income.

  I, personally, am all for chasing down C, but chacon son gout.  :smiley:


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2022, 02:45:28 pm »
Yes, I agree. Most people who have been in Korea for more than a few years agree.
But this has nothing to do with our ascribed value.

How is it "drinking the apologist kool-aid" to acknowledge that there is very little reason for Korean employers to raise ESL wages in Korea, and that we, as NETs currently have very little power to change this?

It's unpleasant, but it's the reality we live in, at the moment.   :undecided:

    We have 3 choices:
  - A: be content with (the steadily decreasing) the amount of money that you're earning
  - B: find greener pastures
  - C: be proactive about finding ways to increase your income.

  I, personally, am all for chasing down C, but chacon son gout.  :smiley:

Yeah well, once corona is done these arrogant pricks are going to learn to eat their humble pie.  Once things open up, people are going to vote with their feet and they won't be so cocky and ignorant anymore. 
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 993

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2022, 02:48:47 pm »
Yeah well, once corona is done these arrogant pricks are going to learn to eat their humble pie.  Once things open up, people are going to vote with their feet and they won't be so cocky and ignorant anymore.

I look forward to you reporting back from China next year. Please let us know how it goes for you.


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2022, 02:50:04 pm »

I look forward to you reporting back from China next year. Please let us know how it goes for you.

Please let us know how it goes one or two years later staying in Korea licking some employers low paying boots.
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 993

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2022, 02:53:55 pm »
Please let us know how it goes one or two years later staying in Korea licking some employers low paying boots.

Would that be the boot you're licking right now? How's it taste?


  • Renma
  • Super Waygook

    • 350

    • September 01, 2014, 06:09:42 am
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2022, 03:15:42 pm »

I look forward to you reporting back from China next year. Please let us know how it goes for you.

Well maybe I will in 2023- I mean 2024! Things will open up back then and let me tell you we'll all be marching off with our heads held high and middle fingers aloft, pointing to the racist education offices, straight off to China or Vietnam where you can earn 4.0 million won, not like these kpop worshiping  fools settling for 2.1m or less. People used to gaze in admiration and make round eye gestures in awe while scrambling to pay for my drinks and dinner when me and the other middling white guys in decline would show up after a long day of teaching ABC's let me tell you. Now starbucks employee's dont even add me on kakao for english lessons when I write my id on the receipt as I return my tray to them, and while I still get some long stares from the local ladies wishing I could take them out on a date unlike their Korean boyfriends who don't know how to treat a woman properly, not that 2.1m will get you very far these days for you new folks, I bet you wouldn't even be able to stretch that money to the third kimbap nara date. Now I still do OK with the ladies and I'm earning mid 3.1 to 3.5mil won, depending on if you count the renewal bonus and housing allowance but for all you newbies to Korea you really should check out the FB groups and see what other countries have to offer, Korea will regret it when everyone whos still earning less than 3mil depart for better salaries in countries that still know how to treat their English teachers properly. As for me, I still do alright as I said I earn the mid 3's so I don't need to rush off yet, though if they keep making racist policies targeting us they'll soon have only kpop fans who don't know how to teach or stand up for themselves and keep accepting lower wages. Anyway for you 5 or 6 Korea apologists out there I use to think like you but believe me if this bs keeps up Korea is going to get a slap in the face when all of you leave for China, then it will have to raise the wages and improve conditions for those who stay if they want to remain competitive. Maybe then they wont be so cocky anymore.


Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2022, 07:02:09 pm »


30000 rmb is 5,771,403.00 krw. 

ze=" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/high-paying-jobs-of-primarymiddlehigh-schools?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=


5,771, 403.00 KRW is definitely the kind of wage that a Native Teacher working in a POLY school or a full English Immersion Kindergarten/ Hakwon with 7 ~ 10 years of experience should be making!
Definitely, if someone has been here for 15 ~ 20 years, this is what their take-home salary should be!

« Last Edit: March 28, 2022, 07:05:53 pm by HiddenInKorea »


  • KoreaBoo
  • Expert Waygook

    • 703

    • May 25, 2014, 04:00:42 pm
    • Vancouver Island
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2022, 02:13:20 am »
Yes, I agree. Most people who have been in Korea for more than a few years agree.
But this has nothing to do with our ascribed value.

How is it "drinking the apologist kool-aid" to acknowledge that there is very little reason for Korean employers to raise ESL wages in Korea, and that we, as NETs currently have very little power to change this?

It's unpleasant, but it's the reality we live in, at the moment.   :undecided:

    We have 3 choices:
  - A: be content with (the steadily decreasing) the amount of money that you're earning
  - B: find greener pastures
  - C: be proactive about finding ways to increase your income.

  I, personally, am all for chasing down C, but chacon son gout.  :smiley:

Agreed. 

I left Korea 3 years ago.  Went from 2.7m/mo working at a uni to 8.2M/mo working for the gov't.   There are times when you should read the writing on the wall, prepare for a career change, and make it happen.

There is no excuse to staying in a dead-end profession if you realize it but just sit there and whinge about it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 03:28:45 am by KoreaBoo »


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 992

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2022, 08:59:55 am »
Agreed. 

I left Korea 3 years ago.  Went from 2.7m/mo working at a uni to 8.2M/mo working for the gov't.   There are times when you should read the writing on the wall, prepare for a career change, and make it happen.

There is no excuse to staying in a dead-end profession if you realize it but just sit there and whinge about it.

To be fair, you made that much in Korea because you chose to work 10-12? a week. So you shouldn't really compare it to a 40h/week job.
On your visa, you could've made twice that with a 25h/workload.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 992

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2022, 09:13:16 am »

5,771, 403.00 KRW is definitely the kind of wage that a Native Teacher working in a POLY school or a full English Immersion Kindergarten/ Hakwon with 7 ~ 10 years of experience should be making!
Definitely, if someone has been here for 15 ~ 20 years, this is what their take-home salary should be!

There is no such thing as ''should be''! Based on what? I would much rather give that to a nurse than to someone with a degree in modern philosophy or some other useless degree that has nothing to do with teaching.
An Iphone ''should be'' no more than 500 bucks, a coffee at starbucks ''should be'' no more than 2 bucks. But it isn't how it works. Everything and everyone is worth exatly what the basic market principles set for them.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 10:57:05 am by Lazio »


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2022, 11:39:14 am »
There is no such thing as ''should be''! Based on what? I would much rather give that to a nurse than to someone with a degree in modern philosophy or some other useless degree that has nothing to do with teaching.
An Iphone ''should be'' no more than 500 bucks, a coffee at starbucks ''should be'' no more than 2 bucks. But it isn't how it works. Everything and everyone is worth exatly what the basic market principles set for them.

Apologist nonsense.  10 plus years of experience does make you a better teacher and does warrant better pay.  Everyone else except for the English teachers got a raise.  So, the level of condescension and disrespect is real no matter what bs excuse you choose to tell yourself.  If Korea doesn't smarten up, it wioll soon be time to leave.  The only temporary thing Korea has going for it is that it's easier to get into during coronavirus.  Once it's gone and borders are reopened, would you really choose to work for 2.1 or 5 million?  I guess some will choose worse contracts with lower pay.  That is their right.  But anyone with any gumption or ambition would jump to where the money is.  It may take a mass exodus for Korea to quit being arrogant and to get off their high horse.  They use to pay better and roll out the welcome mat much more and they need to get back to that. 
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 11:47:26 am by Kyndo »
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 993

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2022, 11:54:18 am »
Apologist nonsense.  10 plus years of experience does make you a better teacher and does warrant better pay.  Everyone else except for the English teachers got a raise.  So, the level of condescension and disrespect is real no matter what bs excuse you choose to tell yourself.  If Korea doesn't smarten up, it wioll soon be time to leave.  The only temporary thing Korea has going for it is that it's easier to get into during coronavirus.  Once it's gone and borders are reopened, would you really choose to work for 2.1 or 5 million?  I guess some will choose worse contracts with lower pay.  That is their right.  But anyone with any gumption or ambition would jump to where the money is.  It may take a mass exodus for Korea to quit being arrogant and to get off their high horse.  They use to pay better and roll out the welcome mat much more and they need to get back to that.

What would you like Korea to do for you in terms of "rolling out the welcome mat"?


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 992

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2022, 11:54:50 am »
Apologist nonsense.  10 plus years of experience does make you a better teacher and does warrant better pay.  Everyone else except for the English teachers got a raise.  So, the level of condescension and disrespect is real no matter what bs excuse you choose to tell yourself.  If Korea doesn't smarten up, it wioll soon be time to leave.  The only temporary thing Korea has going for it is that it's easier to get into during coronavirus.  Once it's gone and borders are reopened, would you really choose to work for 2.1 or 5 million? I guess some will choose worse contracts with lower pay.  That is their right.  But anyone with any gumption or ambition would jump to where the money is.  It may take a mass exodus for Korea to quit being arrogant and to get off their high horse.  They use to pay better and roll out the welcome mat much more and they need to get back to that. 

Why was your post edited by a mod? Were you swearing again? There is no need for that. You seem to have so much anger and frustration.

How does understanding such basics as supply and demand make me an apologist?

I already chose to work for 5 million or more actually.

I agree though that something, or rather someone needs to smarten up.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 12:33:25 pm by Lazio »


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6161

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2022, 11:59:05 pm »
There is no such thing as ''should be''! Based on what? I would much rather give that to a nurse than to someone with a degree in modern philosophy or some other useless degree that has nothing to do with teaching.
An Iphone ''should be'' no more than 500 bucks, a coffee at starbucks ''should be'' no more than 2 bucks. But it isn't how it works. Everything and everyone is worth exatly what the basic market principles set for them.
Well said.