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  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7852

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2022, 06:49:13 pm »
Only 2% of America's population lives in an area in which mask mandates are still in place. You think they're gonna flee the US out of desire to get into a country where triple vaccinated people must always wear a mask? If so, they're more afraid of Covid than they should be. Which many are.


  • Bakeacake
  • Super Waygook

    • 456

    • July 12, 2010, 01:35:40 pm
    • Pohang South Korea
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2022, 07:40:50 pm »
That was true until they shelved the quarantine requirement one week ago.

Add in the soaring inflation and discarded covid regulation in the west now, and I bet the market is just about to become flooded with applicants.

currency exchange to USD or CDN isnt good.   the market MAY become flooded with South Africans.  There's a preference in this country when it comes to foreign teachers.  If you know where you are on that list, you can ask for what you want. Don't take anything less than you want.


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 3850

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • South Gyeongsang province for 13 years (with a 7-year Jeju interlude)
    more
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2022, 09:00:39 pm »
Don't take anything less than you want.
I don't essentially care about money. I really care in terms of equivalencies. But it never is that.

That said, in 2006 I took a 2.6 mill Monday to Thursday 4pm-650pm hagwon position in Hadong, South Gyeongsang province, an opportunity due to the widespread influx of waygooks into public schools, meaning the only competition to GMB (GNB? dunno which - think GNB chain, don't gaf) was my hagwon, i the 2nd waygook hagwon teacher in Hadong (despite four public school waygooks: my bud getting a 3-bedroom apartment for his older self and dog, though... he stunned me two years later by bailing for China and disappearing thereafter).

I later averaged 3.1 to 3.3 mill on Jeju Island (due to great OT rates, working not 4-8 but 3-10 and having 3 hours Saturday morn) for 8 years.

These days? Due to COVID19, i'm accepting less hours for less pay in the town i've taught since '17. But... I may bail soon or re-sign a 6th year and take another pay cut for the smaller student body, though most of my students are great!

« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 09:11:14 pm by VanIslander »
Life's to live! Live! Breathe. Relax. Enjoy. Animals teach us to focus on family, friends and avoid danger. Get what you need and get along with others. That said, some rock the boat, but they know capsizin' it means they're sunk. Some sink, let's swim! The sea's big, great, but has undercurrents.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 990

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2022, 10:14:07 pm »
These days? Due to COVID19, i'm accepting less hours for less pay in the town i've taught since '17. But... I may bail soon or re-sign a 6th year and take another pay cut for the smaller student body, though most of my students are great!

It could be different in urban areas and more rural places. But overall, the hagwon industry had its best year on record in 2021.


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 3850

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • South Gyeongsang province for 13 years (with a 7-year Jeju interlude)
    more
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2022, 10:48:59 pm »
It could be different in urban areas and more rural places. But overall, the hagwon industry had its best year on record in 2021.
Dang! Not even close based on eslcafe job offers. Where are these great offers?
Life's to live! Live! Breathe. Relax. Enjoy. Animals teach us to focus on family, friends and avoid danger. Get what you need and get along with others. That said, some rock the boat, but they know capsizin' it means they're sunk. Some sink, let's swim! The sea's big, great, but has undercurrents.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 990

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2022, 10:58:54 pm »
Dang! Not even close based on eslcafe job offers. Where are these great offers?

I don't know if the current offers reflect this or not, as I don't really follow those.
But private education expenditures reached an all-time high last year. So hagwons are not necessarily struggling with low enrollment like yours. It's the opposite it seems.

https://mn.kbs.co.kr/mobile/news/view.do?ncd=5413476

Couldn't find an English version. Use papago or google to translate.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 11:03:35 pm by Lazio »


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 3850

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • South Gyeongsang province for 13 years (with a 7-year Jeju interlude)
    more
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2022, 08:26:59 am »
If anything south of 2.6 mill is all-time highs, then the average is not as bi-modal as it used to be.

In 2006-2009 there were TONS of 2 4-2.6 mill a month positions. Now? It's back to wtf 2.2? 2 2? .... with inflation.... k .. maybe compared to back home or with residence included, but not at all many top end positions.

I have been here since 2002. If you think positions PAY MORE now then please present details. They aren't paying as much in my universe. It ain't even close.
Life's to live! Live! Breathe. Relax. Enjoy. Animals teach us to focus on family, friends and avoid danger. Get what you need and get along with others. That said, some rock the boat, but they know capsizin' it means they're sunk. Some sink, let's swim! The sea's big, great, but has undercurrents.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 990

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2022, 09:48:37 am »
If anything south of 2.6 mill is all-time highs, then the average is not as bi-modal as it used to be.

In 2006-2009 there were TONS of 2 4-2.6 mill a month positions. Now? It's back to wtf 2.2? 2 2? .... with inflation.... k .. maybe compared to back home or with residence included, but not at all many top end positions.

I have been here since 2002. If you think positions PAY MORE now then please present details. They aren't paying as much in my universe. It ain't even close.

Again, I wrote nothing about high salaries. These are the official numbers about the industry as a whole. From that, it's clear that shrinking student numbers (and reducing one's hours and pay) is not the norm these days.
It doesn't mean that every single hagwon is doing well, but the industry as a whole is. In the capital area and large cities it could be different from smaller towns.
Point is: overall the student enrollments are up and there is more money poured into private education than ever before. There could be shifts were the students are. Like Kurt said, maybe larger places with various subjects, or franchises are doing way better than small schools. But it's not really a problem for the teachers because they can go where the students are. The sector still needs teachers, probably even more than before. Just need to find where.
On the other hand, for some hagwon owners it's not that easy to stay afloat.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7852

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2022, 10:07:11 am »
Adjusted for inflation, hagwon spending was higher in 2009. Not adjusted for inflation itís higher now. Korean salaries are way up since 2009. So are prices.


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 3850

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • South Gyeongsang province for 13 years (with a 7-year Jeju interlude)
    more
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2022, 11:04:51 am »
.... overall the student enrollments are up and there is more money poured into private education than ever before...
Lazio. LINKS PLEASE!!!
Life's to live! Live! Breathe. Relax. Enjoy. Animals teach us to focus on family, friends and avoid danger. Get what you need and get along with others. That said, some rock the boat, but they know capsizin' it means they're sunk. Some sink, let's swim! The sea's big, great, but has undercurrents.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7852

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2022, 11:40:25 am »
There's a shift towards using Koreans who've lived overseas rather than Westerners as hagwon English teachers. Look at E-2 visa numbers. They're down. Peaked more than ten years ago. The novelty wore off. Demand declined.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 990

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2022, 12:38:52 pm »
Lazio. LINKS PLEASE!!!

Sigh.
I already gave you a link. Just read between the lines.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7852

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2022, 01:56:17 pm »
"Parents of elementary schoolkids spent more on private arts and sport lessons as their schools failed to provide."

Taekwondo classes are considered private education spending? And parents are increasingly sending their kids to art hagwons - painting and drawing classes - to get them out of the house more?



  • Sagi Keun
  • Super Waygook

    • 385

    • May 10, 2018, 11:47:23 am
    • Los Angeles
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2022, 12:14:10 am »
Here's the link for the story I read.

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2022/03/14/2022031400522.html

The article does not specify when this occurred, no time period is given.

The government schools were shut down for long periods in 2021. Obviously this is when parents sent their kids to hogwons more to fill the gap. 


This does not automatically result in better deals for ESLers however! because as business increases, more hogwons open to get a share of the cash. Thereby spreading the earnings more thinly.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7852

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2022, 06:46:15 am »
Iíve met quite a few students going to a hagwon to study mathÖ but #1 is piano from my experience. However, not sure how much time per week they are going to lessons. Might not be for long. Also curious about the cost. Will check. Or better yet, if anyone has knowledge about general price ranges, let us know. How much money is being poured into English education and how much is related to native speakers? A lot of it is spending to get online access to lectures and other content. Koreans do most of the teaching and get most of the money. Would a subscription to Pinkfong be counted as private education spending?


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2022, 07:57:18 am »
Would a subscription to Pinkfong be counted as private education spending?
Private education spending in that the parents will quickly learn that the 100,000 different versions of "Baby Shark" on Pinkfong will quickly lead to some serious parental depression.  :cry:

Our kiddo is still too young for the whole hagwon thing, but we fully intend to send him off to tkd, piano, and some kind of sport/dance thing of his choosing when he gets a bit older.
  A lot of what Koreans call hagwons are really just sports/hobby clubs etc. Using the same definition that they do here, growing up I went to swimming hagwons, martial art hagwons, football/soccer hagwons, art hagwons, drama hagwons, first aid hagwons, coding hagwons, dance hagwons, running hagwons, math hagwons, equestrian hagwons etc.   :undecided:

There are differences, I know, but I think a lot of people forget all the programmes etc that their parents put them through back when they were young.


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2312

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2022, 09:30:12 am »
Taught mostly middle, and high, schools, way outside of Seoul in a mid-sized city. And from what I've gathered about 60% go to some kind of academic hagwon. Mostly core subjects like English, math, science, lang' arts. And maybe some hobby like hagwons on top of that if they are really passionate about it.


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2022, 11:27:02 am »
Adjusted for inflation, hagwon spending was higher in 2009. Not adjusted for inflation itís higher now. Korean salaries are way up since 2009. So are prices.

Not for foreigners.  Seems okay to raise Korean salaries but not for foreigners because racism.  (And stupid foreigners who come over and take it.)
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 02, 2027, 11:00:00 pm
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2022, 11:40:31 am »
Why raise salaries for a group of people who have absolutely zero voting power?
From a Korean politician's pragmatic point of view, it's much better to appease those who benefit from keeping wages low than it is to keep economic migrants happy. There's no benefit in the latter.
Unfortunate truths.  :sad:

 Gotta bring your side-hustle A-game if you're here for the money!


  • hangook77
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5529

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Is this the worst the market has ever been?
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2022, 11:45:12 am »
Why raise salaries for a group of people who have absolutely zero voting power?
From a Korean politician's pragmatic point of view, it's much better to appease those who benefit from keeping wages low than it is to keep economic migrants happy. There's no benefit in the latter.
Unfortunate truths.  :sad:

 Gotta bring your side-hustle A-game if you're here for the money!

You must be drinking the apologist kool aid. 

Either way, Korea use to pay a good wage and the side hustle was optional.  they also use to roll out the welcome mat to make the foreigners feel welcome and now they don't. 

It's pure BS and most folks should vote with their feet and leave once covid is done.  F this racist place.
745sticky, Augustiner, Bakeacake, D.L.Orean, Lazio, Mithras, Renma, Rye are still blocked and I can't see them.