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  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6031

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu County, Taiwan (not part of China)
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Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #940 on: October 07, 2022, 05:56:51 am »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Chinas

I see nothing here that restricts such a view to the KMT, however perhaps you have a different source. Care to share? That being said, I would agree that the de facto position is essentially what you said, so this is more of a technicality.

Really Marty? You rely on Wiki for your information always? You do know that any idiot can edit it, right?  My source, the Taiwanese people that I have lived and worked with for more than 4 years now. Methinks they are more aware of the situation in Taiwan than some random writer posting on Wiki.

Well, if the people of the free world believe it is in our best interests to engage in a war that would likely see the utter destruction of Taiwan and also the nuclear incineration and environmental devastation of much of the world in order to preserve Taiwan's ability to produce semiconductors and not have a 90% reduction in supply that a well-developed and economically vibrant free world would need, then so be it.

As to your other contention, not even that idiot Xi would launch a nuclear strike against Taiwan or the rest of the world, heck I doubt after Ukraine and despite his saber rattling, he would dare attack Taiwan as it stands now. One missile from Taiwan (and they have that capability) into the 3 Gorges Dam and it's game over for the CCP. What would it profit him to make Taiwan a nuclear wasteland? He wants Taiwan in one piece eventually and yes, he wants their chip making ability make no mistake. They are years behind Taiwan in that capacity and if they want to compete with the West, he needs that technology.

You also have no cooking clue about the importance of chips to the world. It is not just phones and appliances, it is EVERYTHING. I don't for one moment believe the rest of the world will stand by and watch the CCP take Taiwan. If they take Taiwan, they control the South China Sea and can block all trade going through it. If you want to see how much that is, consult your beloved Wiki, they might just have that right.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread any more so back to the original topic. For goodness sake Marty, stop trying to debate all and sundry with WIKI as your source. You need to get out there and get personal experience before commenting. I live in the Philippines and Taiwan, yet you question my knowledge on both topics. Live in both places then we can talk. Have a good day. I don't want this to get to be one of your pages long debate, I just asked for your thoughts, that's it. Cheers.



« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 06:01:43 am by confusedsafferinkorea »
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


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  • Waygook Lord

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    • Seoul
Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #941 on: October 07, 2022, 06:39:37 am »
What do you think the source of that beef is?

There was a time post-9/11 where relations between the U.S. and Russia were in a bit of a thaw. But I think several things contributed to this state

1) Us rejecting Russia from NATO. Seriously this has to be a massive own goal. Was Russia a perfect candidate? No. But neither is Turkey. We could have let Russia in, oriented around anti-Terror and securing trade and maybe we could have also tried to actually seriously rebuild Russia post-Cold War rather than carpet-bag it.
2) Rolling NATO to Russia's doorstep without letting them in. That's just outright proactive. We wouldn't stand for it in the case of ourselves, why do we think we are justified in doing it to others? I understand from a Realpolitik standpoint, but then that has consequences.
3) Interfering in Ukrainian internal elections. Granted, Russia probably interfered as well, but it's their backyard, not ours.
4) Hillary Clinton and the NeoCons supporting internal Russian dissident movements, in essence trying to get Putin toppled and quite likely killed.
5) Having the unmitigated gall to do the whole "Russia interfered" thing when we interfered in both Ukraine and Russia previously.

Now, some may look at this and just go "blah blah blah Russian apologism", but I have to ask these people- Do you really think we are totally innocent and blameless? Do you think everything we've done has been 100% above board? Do you think all those things we did are justified?

Like in human terms, that's like someone who does a bunch of assh*le things and the other person overreacts and sets their car on fire. It's like "Yeah, he's a POS and yeah, he shouldn't have torched your car, but you DID sleep with his wife and steal his lawnmower, then lied about it, then threatened to kick his ass. You certainly didn't help things."
The source of his beef is that russia is no longer a world power that the West has to think about every minute of the day.



  • Savant
  • The Legend

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    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #942 on: October 07, 2022, 07:16:48 am »
The source of his beef is that russia is no longer a world power that the West has to think about every minute of the day.



Let's get back to the actual discussion of Putin's yearning for a former Soviet Union and his shit management of the war in Ukraine.


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6031

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
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Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #943 on: October 07, 2022, 07:30:31 am »
Us rejecting Russia from NATO. Seriously this has to be a massive own goal.

Wasn't NATO formed to counter Russia? So how could Russia join something that was formed to counter them?

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/nato

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created in 1949 by the United States, Canada, and several Western European nations to provide collective security against the Soviet Union.

Isn't that like the KKK wanting to join the BLM movement?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 12:37:34 pm by confusedsafferinkorea »
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • Savant
  • The Legend

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Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #944 on: October 07, 2022, 07:43:24 am »
Marty's using all the Tankie narratives to put the blame on the West and NATO and not on Putin and Russia.

It's sad, really, cause I thought he was better than this.

But, I guess it's as easy for him to copy from Pro-Russia social media than to appear as "Armchair General Wiki", as he so often does.


  • Spliced
  • Super Waygook

    • 313

    • August 05, 2022, 12:15:38 am
    • Jeolla
Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #945 on: October 07, 2022, 10:33:34 am »
Has anyone mentioned the fact that the Russian army trains recruits at the UNIT level, not having a genuine block for basic combat training?


Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #946 on: October 07, 2022, 02:12:08 pm »
Really Marty? You rely on Wiki for your information always? You do know that any idiot can edit it, right? 
You know there's this thing called a 'citation', right? Yes, wikipedia is wikipedia, but it's not rubbish either. Typically you have to cite something from a reliable source, you know, much in the way one would do with a scholarly work. Often those sources are primary ones, often from government or academic outlets.

They are certainly more authoritative than "random guy in Taiwan who says it's like this.

Quote
My source, the Taiwanese people that I have lived and worked with for more than 4 years now. Methinks they are more aware of the situation in Taiwan than some random writer posting on Wiki.
This assumes the person on wiki isn't also in Taiwan. You'll also notice that often, citations on wiki are in native languages.

I forgot, are you fluent in Mandarin?

This is before we get to the fact that one of your previous claims was that you lived in Gangnam, a neighborhood for "the elite", and that you had to dodge vomit and condoms everywhere on your way to work every morning. This despite the fact that pretty much everyone on this board has spent at least a half-dozen nights hanging out in that area.

There's a term for you: unreliable narrator. And it is precisely why we don't base things on biased anecdotes.

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One missile from Taiwan (and they have that capability) into the 3 Gorges Dam and it's game over for the CCP.
It's not that easy to take out an entire dam in one strike, see Ukraine. Also, such an attack would likely result in massive retaliation.

Quote
not even that idiot Xi would launch a nuclear strike against Taiwan or the rest of the world
Every country has red lines and every country has interests they deem as essential. I think the value of Taiwan to China is NOT the same as the value of Taiwan to the West. It is something existential to China.

Quote
You also have no cooking clue about the importance of chips to the world. It is not just phones and appliances, it is EVERYTHING.
Yes, but that isn't at the level of global nuclear annihilation. Taiwan may produce the most advanced chips, but there are still lots of other countries that make chips and could scale up production in 5~10 years which would result in a medium-term economic malaise but nothing catastrophic at the level of NUCLEAR WAR.

Quote
If they take Taiwan, they control the South China Sea and can block all trade going through it. If you want to see how much that is, consult your beloved Wiki, they might just have that right.
That they could doesn't mean they would. And it doesn't mean that there wouldn't be alternative shipping lanes. It would simply increase costs.

Quote
I live in the Philippines and Taiwan, yet you question my knowledge on both topics
Dude, you seem to think living in those places makes you an expert on them and every aspect of them, despite you not being fluent in any of the native languages and relying mostly on personal anecdotes told to you by someone with unknown levels of expertise in a subject and in their second language vs. cited sources.

Look, you haven't been a reliable narrator in the past. You tried this whole thing with your "minefields of vomit and condoms in Gangnam" and even the "You didn't live there" thing.

Certain things are not dependent on me having lived there or not and you don't seem to grasp that. Honestly, it seems like you have some sort of mental limitation which prevents your from distinguishing between things that require someone to live somewhere to know vs. those that don't.


Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #947 on: October 07, 2022, 02:14:52 pm »
Wasn't NATO formed to counter Russia? So how could Russia join something that was formed to counter them?
NATO was formed to counter the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact.

You'll note that Poland, Czechoslovakia, et. al have joined NATO after having been in the Warsaw Pact...

Anyways, have you ever lived in Russia? Why are you talking about Russia and disagreeing with Russians?

Quote
Isn't that like the KKK wanting to join the BLM movement?
I think it's hilarious you thought you were making a good point when you typed this up.


Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #948 on: October 07, 2022, 02:21:13 pm »
Marty's using all the Tankie narratives to put the blame on the West and NATO and not on Putin and Russia.
"You know, I think European colonialism and fears of getting carved up like China or Vietnam are what prompted Japan, in part, to intensively militarize, and I think Britain backstabbing them and siding with the U.S. as their "Anglo brothers" might have soured them on the international order being one that would respect them and treat them as equals."

"Marty is pushing Japanese narratives!!!!!!!!"

The fact that you think Russia is 100% to blame and we are 100% blameless is typical in the kind of thinking sociopaths engage in- where they view themselves as virtuous and above reproach and those who do not agree with them as completely villainous and evil.

Putin and Russia are to blame for the invasion. That doesn't mean the run-up to things is 100% their fault and we didn't do anything wrong. As I said, it's like someone flipping out and torching your car after you bullied them and tried to hit on their girlfriend. Yes, it's wrong and an overreaction. And yes, they may have been a jerk. But that doesn't mean there wasn't more to this story.


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6031

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu County, Taiwan (not part of China)
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Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #949 on: October 07, 2022, 03:06:48 pm »
I wonder how Marty is going to spin this one?

https://youtu.be/Hbfx7JQByso?t=125
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 03:13:32 pm by confusedsafferinkorea »
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 3600

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #950 on: October 07, 2022, 05:18:11 pm »
I wonder how Marty is going to spin this one?

https://youtu.be/Hbfx7JQByso?t=125

A Tankie can easily spin that news.


Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #951 on: October 07, 2022, 05:33:25 pm »
I wonder how Marty is going to spin this one?
I don't know what happened. If anyone committed atrocities, they should be held accountable.

At the same time, assigning blame without full, independent and mutually accepted agencies examining things should not be done.

The fact is Russia could gun down 1000 people like dogs and pro-Russians would think it was Ukrainians or a "false flag". Likewise, Ukrainians could massacre 1000 ethnic Russians and say "It was the Russians" and some would believe it.

This kind of situation, where you believe/accept something instantly and at face-value in order to show your allegiance with a certain "team", is NOT good.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6324

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #952 on: October 07, 2022, 08:47:22 pm »
car is trying to cut and paste through the fog of war with words, words and more words but has only gotten himself even more lost. Who wants a car without navigation?


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 3792

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #953 on: October 07, 2022, 11:55:31 pm »
I don't know what happened. If anyone committed atrocities, they should be held accountable.

At the same time, assigning blame without full, independent and mutually accepted agencies examining things should not be done.

The fact is Russia could gun down 1000 people like dogs and pro-Russians would think it was Ukrainians or a "false flag". Likewise, Ukrainians could massacre 1000 ethnic Russians and say "It was the Russians" and some would believe it.

This kind of situation, where you believe/accept something instantly and at face-value in order to show your allegiance with a certain "team", is NOT good.

Like how you always believe/accept that Trump is innocent and never lied?  Like that?  Y'know, showing your allegiance with a "certain" team?  Like, NOT good like that?


  • Spliced
  • Super Waygook

    • 313

    • August 05, 2022, 12:15:38 am
    • Jeolla
Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #954 on: October 08, 2022, 05:46:20 am »
Like how you always believe/accept that Trump is innocent and never lied?  Like that?  Y'know, showing your allegiance with a "certain" team?  Like, NOT good like that?

I'd be curious to see those words. 


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 3600

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #955 on: October 08, 2022, 05:54:18 pm »
Belated Birthday wishes to Putin. Hope you had a blast! Oops....there goes the Kerch Bridge!!!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63183404


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6031

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu County, Taiwan (not part of China)
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Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #956 on: October 09, 2022, 05:55:19 pm »
I thought this was quite a balanced look at the effect of this war on Russia, Ukraine and Europe.  The sooner this war ends the better for everyone concerned.  Clearly Putin didn't put much thought into his actions and the long term consequences  or perhaps he would have hesitated to launch this invasion.


https://youtu.be/9m6wYrFf6_U?t=1225
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6031

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu County, Taiwan (not part of China)
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Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #957 on: October 13, 2022, 08:53:37 am »
One can't but have sympathy for these Russian conscripts. Time to end this senseless war. 

https://youtu.be/sB1c1IqaKfc?t=739
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • Savant
  • The Legend

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    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #958 on: November 12, 2022, 07:30:47 am »
Needed an update:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63601312

The scenes of jubilant Ukrainians in Kherson was amazing.


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6031

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu County, Taiwan (not part of China)
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Re: The Ukraine War
« Reply #959 on: November 12, 2022, 04:31:52 pm »
Needed an update:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63601312

The scenes of jubilant Ukrainians in Kherson was amazing.



Let's pray this is the beginning of the end of this senseless war.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!