How has your attitude to Korea changed?

Never been to Costco or any of the shopping malls?

Some of them are now trying to charge for parking too.  But the point is stand alone parking or parking garages for an area are not economically feasible for a private company unless they charge and arm and a leg.  If you want to go shopping or visit stores or marts or services or a park in a certain area, there needs to be parking garages so people can park and then walk a certain distance in that area.  It's the only way it will work in Korea.  Parking that is either free or quite cheap/  Otherwise people won't go and many local shops and businesses lose money due to a lack of customers.  Why most cities here approve these lousy building plans makes no sense.  But this is the land that common sense forgot. 

Now, if you're going to post that song, post the original.  Amy Grant? Ouch.  Nothing from Michael Bolton you want to put up?

Honestly, I was looking for the Sheryl Crow version, but couldn't find it.
If I can't have the version *I* want, then nobody else can have the version they want either.   

Honestly, I was looking for the Sheryl Crow version, but couldn't find it.
If I can't have the version *I* want, then nobody else can have the version they want either.   

The Counting Crows version is probably available. 

This I hope they never do. It usually tends to effect the poor, more than the rich. "Oh sorry, you live in an old building, can't buy that used car without a parking spot. Got to move."

Also, seen how some smaller building paint their parking? Sure they have 8 parking spots, but 4 of them are behind the other 4, so it effectively blocks the back spots. So unless you get that front parking spot early you're going to park on the street to be practical.

The burden has to go to the builders, not the car owners. And if the builders don't build to to specs, pull their business license. Got to make the consequences bite.

I used to live in a building with two parking bays behind each other. There were 8 units in the building and each had a certain parking bay designated to them. Basically your next door neighbor was parking behind you or in-front-of you. What some did is they actually gave a spare key to their neighbor so they could freely move the cars without bothering each other. Our neighbor always went out very early and came back late or not at all. So I just used the rear space and very rarely had to call them to move their car. Sure it's not perfect but beats circling around for 10 minutes to find a spot that isn't far from your home.

I believe all new villas must have a parking space for each unit. Otherwise they can't get permit. The problem is that there are still many old neighborhoods that were built 30 years ago with zero parking. It will take time until they all disappear.
Also, there seem to be some gray areas. If the villa has some business on the ground floor, a restaurant or coffee shop etc. it might not be mandatory to have parking for each residential unit on the higher floors. Or if a building contains small, one-room units, then it seems like the parking space rule doesn't apply.

Best way would be to enforce existing legislation that requires all buildings exceeding a certain floor area to provide a percentage of that to parking.
It's already encoded in zoning and building legislation, but often enough it's not enforced.

A common tactic is to plan a large structure, and include the designated area for parking, get the permits, build according to plans, have everything inspected, and then repurpose the parking space.

Seoul currently averages only 0.75 parking spaces per household. 

Still, there's a tiny bit of hope: Seoul is considering legislation to require all new complexes to provide a minimum of 1 space per household, and there's even talk of following the Japanese system where the purchase of a vehicle requires evidence of a guaranteed parking spot.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2021/12/281_320034.html

I believe all new apartments have at least 1 space per unit. I would say at least 1.2 seems to be standard these days
However, depending on the location, it might not be enough. If there is great public transportation, buses and subways within a few minutes, then it can be okay.
But if it's little out with only a few bus lines nearby, then 1.2 is definitely not enough. So there is no easy way to set a number that works everywhere.

The new huge apartment buildings in Gyeonggi have more than ample parking underground. Always a spot. Just need all the new juteks to have suitable parking.

Yeah, that's true. That's probably why the average currently sits at 0.75 rather than much lower in Seoul. On the other hand, one room villas are notoriously horrendous for their lack of parking spaces, and there are sooooo many of them...

Another big problem with building parking spaces is that the need for them fluctuates heavily depending on time of day, day of the week, and even by season. They also take up a lot of room, nobody really wants to pay for them, and it's really difficult to do any kind of space sharing with them. I mean, if you have a parking lot with room for 20 cars but only 3 are parked in it, the rest of the space is just... wasted.

 I wonder if there are any existing space sharing ideas out there for the temporary utilization of unused parking spaces?

The new huge apartment buildings in Gyeonggi have more than ample parking underground. Always a spot. Just need all the new juteks to have suitable parking.

Unfortunately, that is not true in all cases. I could show you countless new complexes that have around 1.2 parking/unit or even less. And that is not enough. If more than every fifth household has a second car, then they have a lack of parking already. Sure, people would park anywhere that they aren't supposed to and that way they can accommodate more cars than the official number. But parking can definitely be a problem even in new complexes.

Yeah, that's true. That's probably why the average currently sits at 0.75 rather than much lower in Seoul. On the other hand, one room villas are notoriously horrendous for their lack of parking spaces, and there are sooooo many of them...

Another big problem with building parking spaces is that the need for them fluctuates heavily depending on time of day, day of the week, and even by season. They also take up a lot of room, nobody really wants to pay for them, and it's really difficult to do any kind of space sharing with them. I mean, if you have a parking lot with room for 20 cars but only 3 are parked in it, the rest of the space is just... wasted.

 I wonder if there are any existing space sharing ideas out there for the temporary utilization of unused parking spaces?

I lived in a couple of villas who had great parking underneath side by side.  But there are plenty of others that don't put parking underneath or who put the front and back parking which is useless.  Maybe should be a government rule on that for new villas.  Seems a bribe is paid and nothing is enforced or something. 

I lived in a couple of villas who had great parking underneath side by side.  But there are plenty of others that don't put parking underneath or who put the front and back parking which is useless.  Maybe should be a government rule on that for new villas.  Seems a bribe is paid and nothing is enforced or something.

My apartment complex doesn't allow foreigners to have a parking space.  I had to sell my Bricklin SV at a loss because I was spending so much time driving around the area looking for a spot.  I don't think it's fair since it's I'm paying rent like everyone else, but they were adamant and said it's nothing personal but foreigners "live ok, park, aniyo" Then the complex manager made a big x with his arms.

 They did say I could use the bike racks but the kids are always ripping off my banana seat and $LUT license plate I got in a box of cornflakes.  Back to public transit for me. 

Some of them are now trying to charge for parking too.  But the point is stand alone parking or parking garages for an area are not economically feasible for a private company unless they charge and arm and a leg.  If you want to go shopping or visit stores or marts or services or a park in a certain area, there needs to be parking garages so people can park and then walk a certain distance in that area.  It's the only way it will work in Korea.  Parking that is either free or quite cheap/  Otherwise people won't go and many local shops and businesses lose money due to a lack of customers.  Why most cities here approve these lousy building plans makes no sense.  But this is the land that common sense forgot. 

How do you know they aren't economically feasible? And which shopping mall is charging for parking? I know Shinsegae used to charge but if you purchased a certain amount the parking was free. I never paid.

How do you know they aren't economically feasible? And which shopping mall is charging for parking? I know Shinsegae used to charge but if you purchased a certain amount the parking was free. I never paid.

I believe often if the department store is located in a prime area (eg. major city in a core business district) they'll charge, but as you said you just need to purchase like 10k-won worth every few hours to be off the hook.

How do you know they aren't economically feasible? And which shopping mall is charging for parking? I know Shinsegae used to charge but if you purchased a certain amount the parking was free. I never paid.

All the Marts charge and yes you must spend a lot to not be charged which is BS.  But community parking ltos if you want to go to a certain area to do business or shop, there is no parking which deters people from going to that area to spend money.  Many local small businesses and shops lose out.  In the new areas developers build, there is no reason they can't put a parking garage or two in place and then hand it over to the city.  Maybe free parking or cheap parking people will accept.  People will not accept 20 or 30 dollars an hour or two.  This is the only way a private parking place will be profitable and people won't accept it. 

All the Marts charge and yes you must spend a lot to not be charged which is BS.

I've been to plenty of marts where they don't charge for parking. And in those places that do, you don't need to spend that much.

All the Marts charge and yes you must spend a lot to not be charged which is BS. 

You need to spend like 10k. It's not some freeloader's space.

But community parking ltos if you want to go to a certain area to do business or shop, there is no parking which deters people from going to that area to spend money.  Many local small businesses and shops lose out.

Again, this comes down to what land is public and what land is private. In order to do anything the government has to buy land or use eminent domain. These are both tricky processes.

In the new areas developers build, there is no reason they can't put a parking garage or two in place and then hand it over to the city. 

Well, aside from such minor details as materials cost, labor cost, permits, inspections, uncertain return on investment, no direct payment for this and opportunity cost it's totally no big deal!

You're seriously wondering why some random midsize developer doesn't build an entire parking structure and just hand it off to the city for free?

The new huge apartment buildings in Gyeonggi have more than ample parking underground. Always a spot. Just need all the new juteks to have suitable parking.

I just remembered that our monthly maintenance bill has a host of details on it. One of them is the income from parking fees. In this complex, 2 cars/household are free to park, so it doesn't say how many have 2 cars. But out of 1060 units, 130 of them have 3 cars registered and 21 have 4 cars. I estimate that at least 300 units have 2 cars but it could easily be 400 or more. So even though we have 1.75 parking spaces/unit, it is pretty much all needed. And that 1.75 is actually on the high side of the scale. Truth is though, that this complex consists of only large units (38 pyeong and 47 pyeong and a few even larger ones) and as such, the residents tend to have larger families, and more cars. In a general apartment complex which has mainly 25 and 34 pyeong units with some 40 pyeong ones, they would have less cars. But 1.3-1.4 spaces/unit would still be necessary and sadly it's less than that in most cases. Even in new complexes.
During daytime hours, the parking may seem ample, but try finding a spot after 10 pm. Luckily, it's never been an issue where I live.

I never heard the word "mart" before coming to SK in 2002. Is it a Brit thing?

Kmart, Walmart, ... but never "mart".

Store, shop...

Do people in Britain, Ireland and/or South Africa say "I went to the mart."

Sources say it became obsolete by the 1950s.

In Korean sure (Konglish is a kind of Korean spoken by Koreans to Koreans). Otherwise?  In terms of international communication?)

I never heard the word "mart" before coming to SK in 2002. Is it a Brit thing?

Kmart, Walmart, ... but never "mart".

Store, shop...

Do people in Britain, Ireland and/or South Africa say "I went to the mart."

Sources say it became obsolete by the 1950s.

In Korean sure (Konglish is a kind of Korean spoken by Koreans to Koreans). Otherwise?  In terms of international communication?)

http://mini-mart.com/
Serving the Texas hill country since 1973.

I thought I was clear: names Kmart, Walmart... so even Minimart may have traction but "I went to a mart" may be an extinct dinosaur in the English-speaking world.

I haven't been to the Carolinas, the U.K., Australia or South Africa, so I can't be sure.

Texas, California, New Zealand and my Canada surely do not frequently say "I went to a mart." Like dictionaries say, it is outdated. Only in Korea have i heard it so i suspect it's merely Konglish (part of Korean - a language spoken by 2% of the world - perfectly fine on the peninsula by the locals).

... I have no idea if it is archaic, but it is the word used in korea, and we all know what a mart is... And yes, I had never heard the word as a stand-alone, before coming here...

Agreed.

... I bet there are some people in some countries that have never used the word 'Dairy' as the synonym for a mart or shop.

Waaa? Is this a multiverse take? In what universe does that ever happen?

Remember guys: Konglish ain't English, it's Korean. The language of the locals talking to locals and localized foreigners ain't the international English that's widely known, the American & British variety, that's known in 100+ countries.