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Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #120 on: November 01, 2021, 04:45:31 pm »
No, you just had a thread title that reeked of religious zealot. That's all!
Do you recall that concept of being 'tone deaf'?
I've heard atheistic straight-edge people make similar arguments.

When you brought up the evils of alcohol you knew your being an observant Muslim would factor into the discussion YOU launched the thread for no reason in particular, other than to stir things up and get on your high horse. 
Wait, you're blaming him for starting a thread that never once mentioned religion for why people brought up religion and used his religion to attack him with it?

WTF kind of backwards logic is that?

Quote
  You could have easily added to the aforementioned CO2 thread if you'd not wanted to cause waves.
Didn't he at some point? Also, that thread is dead.

Quote
I care about neither of your personal beliefs.
You doth protest too much, methinks.

Seriously you said this- "When you brought up the evils of alcohol you knew your being an observant Muslim would factor into the discussion"
Seems like you were predisposed against the guy from the get go and seem to actually be focusing on his personal beliefs first and foremost.


Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #121 on: November 01, 2021, 04:55:15 pm »
Perhaps you could direct me to this paper if it has been published  "Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history"

No idea,  but the guy was accusing him of using pseudo-intellectual language to talk about women anyway. 


  • Adel
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Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #122 on: November 01, 2021, 04:57:16 pm »
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWcASV2sey0

I've heard atheistic straight-edge people make similar arguments.
Wait, you're blaming him for starting a thread that never once mentioned religion for why people brought up religion and used his religion to attack him with it?

WTF kind of backwards logic is that?
Didn't he at some point? Also, that thread is dead.
You doth protest too much, methinks.

Seriously you said this- "When you brought up the evils of alcohol you knew your being an observant Muslim would factor into the discussion"
Seems like you were predisposed against the guy from the get go and seem to actually be focusing on his personal beliefs first and foremost.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 05:01:16 pm by Adel »


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Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #123 on: November 01, 2021, 04:58:52 pm »
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino links=topic=123120.msg874667#msg874667 date=1635756331

Seriously you said this- "When you brought up the evils of alcohol you knew your being an observant Muslim would factor into the discussion"
Seems like you were predisposed against the guy from the get go and seem to actually be focusing on his personal beliefs first and foremost.

If a known Buddhist were to start a thread with an assertion that eating meat is the worldís biggest evil, it would be hard to not consider how that personís background influences their opinion, even if they stuck to talking about heart disease, deforestation, and methane production.

One can talk about experience, observations, or peer reviewed data, but they often mean nothing to one who holds a contrary view as a tenant of faith.



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Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #124 on: November 01, 2021, 05:02:51 pm »
I've heard atheistic straight-edge people make similar arguments.
Wait, you're blaming him for starting a thread that never once mentioned religion for why people brought up religion and used his religion to attack him with it?


I brought up religion, and it was in no way an attack on him!  The topic is "the most destructive force in human history".  It is my considered opinion, and anyone is welcome to disagree with it, that religion fits that bill--certainly moreso than alcohol.  That is all.


Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #125 on: November 01, 2021, 05:06:05 pm »
When you brought up the evils of alcohol you knew your being an observant Muslim would factor into the discussion YOU launched the thread for no reason

WOW! I'm saving this comment for sure.

Let me get this crystal clear. I can't have an opinion on any issue, particularly one that has a massive effect on every society because YOU feel threatened by my perceived religious grandstanding?
How insecure are you?

It's cool to bring up threads about child abuse at schools or the spycam problem, but alcohol is bad... No, sir! Keep you Religious antics to yourself.
You lot can dish it out but you sure as hell can't take it.

You're completely up your own ***, mate.
That was your whole intent, otherwise why start the thread? 

Liechtenstein started a freakin' thread about the colour of his eyes.
There's a thread half a dozen pages long of people arguing about Chinese food.
There's a thread about Korean pizza.

You find it strange that I started a thread about something as relevant as alcohol?

Of all the countless alcohol and beer threads I minded my own business and stayed out, preferring not to hijack a thread but rather start my own and when I did, I wasn't taken seriously because of my Religion
not because South Korea has a massive problem with alcohol or because nearly 40% of violent crimes in the US are alcohol related.

I never even mentioned the Qur'an or a single verse from it. The first person to bring up the Qur'an, Bible and Torah was another user when they joked about pissing on them.

I only brought up facts, my opinions on society and words from a clinical psychologist and I'm the extremist.
 
Co2 is an atheist and you're a Muslim.  I care about neither of your personal beliefs. 

You jumped on my Religion before I could even bring it up... on multiple occasions.
I think you most certainly do care that I'm a Muslim and you don't like that... because you're a bigot... and a liar.


Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #126 on: November 01, 2021, 05:10:13 pm »
I brought up religion, and it was in no way an attack on him!  The topic is "the most destructive force in human history".  It is my considered opinion, and anyone is welcome to disagree with it, that religion fits that bill--certainly moreso than alcohol.  That is all.
Sorry, one of the things I was going to add with the whole slew of things was that I didn't think in your case you were going after Aristocrat's religion.

You made it quite clear YOU were going after religion in general, not the religion of the OP, which I think is totally a fair counterpoint.

Sorry for not getting to it sooner, but I definitely felt that you were being fair to Aristocrat and taking the issue seriously and not going after anyone's religion.


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Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #127 on: November 01, 2021, 05:27:17 pm »
In fact, the only two people I can offhand say I know their religion are you and Confusedsaffir.  South African thing maybe. 

Since most people are having a go at Aristocat for his religious beliefs, let me say this, perhaps it is a South African thing to be open about your religious convictions. That being said, I cannot recall either of us trying to convert others here to our respective religions. Aristocat is very open about his religious beliefs but I don't think he has preached fire and brimstone on those who don't hold the same beliefs as he does.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #128 on: November 01, 2021, 05:53:58 pm »
In fact, the only two people I can offhand say I know their religion are you and Confusedsaffir.  South African thing maybe. 

Since most people are having a go at Aristocat for his religious beliefs, let me say this, perhaps it is a South African thing to be open about your religious convictions. That being said, I cannot recall either of us trying to convert others here to our respective religions. Aristocat is very open about his religious beliefs but I don't think he has preached fire and brimstone on those who don't hold the same beliefs as he does.

Amen, brother!

The group areas act took my family's and many other's land and threw us into the flats, Muslims and Christians together, united by skin colour. The one good thing that came of that was that you had generations of Christians and Muslims growing up in the same streets, the ratio was pretty much 50/50 and with all the drugs, alcohol and abuse that went on, I don't think an Atheist would've raised anyone's eyebrows. I can't recall one instance of Religious violence on any side.

No offence, but I always chuckle when someone mentions "I know Islam, there were 2 Muslim immigrant kids at our school."
No, you don't. South Africa has huge problems, but we actually grew up around people of ALL faiths and have developed an instinct of mutual respect and understanding, we don't need to be taught these things. I went to a Catholic school, my best friend back home is Christian, I have Jewish surf buddies and plenty of Atheist friends.

I'm not lying when I say that the first time in my life that I felt unwelcome for being Muslim was in Korea... no, it wasn't from Koreans, it was from an American NET at orientation.


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Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #129 on: November 01, 2021, 05:56:00 pm »
This thread has a really bad title.  Alcohol has almost no benefits.  But before sanitation and in places where sanitation is bad, alcohol is good. 

I seldom drink but alcohol has definitely had a benefit.  People in early America weíre getting wasted because the water had pathogens in it.

In many other places water was diluted and admittedly unhealthy alcohol would be better than water.

Alcohol has few benefits but being an alternative to bad water in places without sanitation is one of them.  I donít recommend getting wasted now.


Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #130 on: November 01, 2021, 06:05:32 pm »
This thread has a really bad title.  Alcohol has almost no benefits.  But before sanitation and in places where sanitation is bad, alcohol is good. 

I seldom drink but alcohol has definitely had a benefit.  People in early America weíre getting wasted because the water had pathogens in it.

In many other places water was diluted and admittedly unhealthy alcohol would be better than water.

Alcohol has few benefits but being an alternative to bad water in places without sanitation is one of them.  I donít recommend getting wasted now.

I agree that in the middle-ages, in certain places drinking alcohol wasn't a choice; you drink wine and live till you're in your 30s or early 40s and die from health complications or you die within a week from dehydration.

It's 2021 and, thankfully, most places and all developed nations don't have this problem or have ways to easily get clean drinking water so that "benefit" has been rendered irrelevant.

The thread title IS my opinion and I welcome and expect people to disagree, but articulate an argument don't just go "He's a Muslim! Burn him!" In a masterclass of irony.


Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #131 on: November 01, 2021, 06:35:26 pm »
It was 2008. His name was Douglas. He took my virginity. "Doug" for short, "D" for extra short, though that he was not.

"Go gently," I had whispered, not merely to seem modest. Afterall, I had eaten Arbys a few hours earlier and thatll pass through you like water through a salmon's gills.

He was drunk. I knew it, but didnt want to accept it. I wanted him to want to do it without the sauce.

Without alcohol my experiences with Douglas wouldnt be so vivid. He wanted to have children with me, yet we were both men (I even identified as one at that time), making my pregnancy impossible. I will forever cherish those memories, which that bottle of gin helped create.
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Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #132 on: November 01, 2021, 06:39:51 pm »
Sorry, one of the things I was going to add with the whole slew of things was that I didn't think in your case you were going after Aristocrat's religion.

You made it quite clear YOU were going after religion in general, not the religion of the OP, which I think is totally a fair counterpoint.

Sorry for not getting to it sooner, but I definitely felt that you were being fair to Aristocrat and taking the issue seriously and not going after anyone's religion.

Well, thank you for that.

And I think it is true that a few people are focusing on Islam, and I guess Aristocrat's representation of it,  but more are talking about religion in general, even expanding it to "ideologies"--not all ideologies are destructive, of course.  But I suspect they mean ideologies that focus on tribalism and othering, scapegoating, etc. 


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Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #133 on: November 01, 2021, 07:22:45 pm »
I agree that in the middle-ages, in certain places drinking alcohol wasn't a choice; you drink wine and live till you're in your 30s or early 40s and die from health complications or you die within a week from dehydration.

It's 2021 and, thankfully, most places and all developed nations don't have this problem or have ways to easily get clean drinking water so that "benefit" has been rendered irrelevant.

The thread title IS my opinion and I welcome and expect people to disagree, but articulate an argument don't just go "He's a Muslim! Burn him!" In a masterclass of irony.

Thatís not me.  I think humans relied on alcohol for a long time in times when there wasnít good sanitation.  The sanitation hasnít been good for much of human civilization.  Some other people were saying there were no benefits and the thread is about human history. 


Re: Alcohol, The most destructive force in human history
« Reply #134 on: November 01, 2021, 07:47:08 pm »
Thatís not me.  I think humans relied on alcohol for a long time in times when there wasnít good sanitation.  The sanitation hasnít been good for much of human civilization.  Some other people were saying there were no benefits and the thread is about human history. 

Pretty sure I referred to benefits in the present tense and argued against societal benefits, argued by others, from contemporary society.
No offence, but it does seem a bit pedantic to focus on a benefit that hasn't been relevant for a very long time.

When talking about human history and alcohols effects, there are going to be both positive and negative effects on society, but averaging everything out
I still believe it is the most destructive force.