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  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4291

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2021, 12:24:29 pm »
Below their station in life, at a guess.
I teach many university students during vacation times. Most take a a factory job, and most quit within a week. Sometimes even a day. Too tiring is the excuse from all.

Reminds me of NZ in the 70s/80s bringing in Polynesian people to work in the factories. NZers were just too lazy, even though the money was livable. Many thought it was demeaning work.

You can be right on that in some ways.  I must say here I would have a hard time in summer due to the heat.  Prob not air conditioned here.  But the cold months no problem (As long as they don't crank the heat to 28 or 30 degrees inside.)


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2175

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2021, 01:53:00 pm »
Given I have seen some factory jobs paying 2.7 to 3 million won and beyond, I am surprised many jobless Koreans don't do it, at least temporarily. 
10 our days, 6 days a week. Housing is a one bedroom place with 5 other people.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2955

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2021, 02:06:16 pm »
I gave some extra food and a man won to an elderly woman who lives near my area always looking through the trash even the leftover food bins.  I slip a man won once in a while to some elderly collecting the boxes.  Cause they aren't doing it just to be active as one poster suggested.  They are actually doing it because they have nothing and the Korean government pays them a pittance.  They worked hard to build the country up and help it develop but they got very little in return.  A kind of disgrace really.  I am not big into social spending at all.  But for these folsk, I'd make an exception and double the pittance they receive (and even then it is not much). 

These two sentiments are in violent conflict with each other.


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2175

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2021, 02:07:18 pm »
Is housing like that? Maybe the free housing, but no one is forced to take the free housing. They can get their own place. I know people working those jobs and they donít have housing like that. I guess some do, but is it the norm?
I believe it's the norm if you take the free housing. But a lot do forgo it and pay for their own housing in the smaller cities where a 2 bedroom place can be had for well under 400,000k-won


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6869

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2021, 02:31:11 pm »
These two sentiments are in violent conflict with each other.

Are they? Maybe heís saying itís a disgrace the children of the parents who sacrificed so much for them arenít returning the favor. Thatís the reason the elderly are living in poverty. Because their kids are selfish a-holes.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2955

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2021, 06:07:40 pm »
Are they? Maybe heís saying itís a disgrace the children of the parents who sacrificed so much for them arenít returning the favor. Thatís the reason the elderly are living in poverty. Because their kids are selfish a-holes.

I took social spending to refer to the government safety net/social security/retirement.  But the elderly spent a lot of their working years before these programs really got going. 

I know Koreans protest a lot, but I genuinely don't know if there are protests/organized efforts in the legislature, etc to keep payouts for these folks low.  Are there?


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2175

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2021, 06:34:39 pm »
Supposedly Korea's elderly poverty rate is like 43%. Not sure what standards they use, because if it's that high I'd expect way more cardboard collectors out there. Perhaps it also includes seniors living with their kids that live comfortably, but don't really receive much of a pension.


  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 965

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Sierra Leone
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2021, 09:29:26 am »
Supposedly Korea's elderly poverty rate is like 43%. Not sure what standards they use, because if it's that high I'd expect way more cardboard collectors out there. Perhaps it also includes seniors living with their kids that live comfortably, but don't really receive much of a pension.

I don't even live in Seoul, but I have some seriously affluent neighbors.  I have
stopped counting the number of Mercedes, BMWs, Land Rovers, Teslas that
are parked in my apartment complex.  Seoul is even more affluent. Lots of
Koreans don't need government pensions or have never paid into them.


Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2021, 10:02:53 am »
I don't even live in Seoul, but I have some seriously affluent neighbors.  I have
stopped counting the number of Mercedes, BMWs, Land Rovers, Teslas that
are parked in my apartment complex.  Seoul is even more affluent. Lots of
Koreans don't need government pensions or have never paid into them.

I thinki t's been said before but fancy cars are not usually  a sign of financial security. They're more likely evidence of Korea's highest household debt in Asia


Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2021, 10:07:21 am »
I don't even live in Seoul, but I have some seriously affluent neighbors.  I have
stopped counting the number of Mercedes, BMWs, Land Rovers, Teslas that
are parked in my apartment complex.  Seoul is even more affluent. Lots of
Koreans don't need government pensions or have never paid into them.

Korea is the last place I'd take a fancy car as an indicator of wealth.
Someone who lives in my building drives an S-class Mercedes, but lives in the smallest and crappiest
apartment in the building. My apartment is easily 3 times the size of his and unlike him, I don't have
kids living with me.

Notice how, in 'Squid Game', most of the participants were in their 40s and 50s. That's generally the age that
living above your means begins to catch up with you.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4291

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2021, 11:49:51 am »
These two sentiments are in violent conflict with each other.

No, not really. 

I support the ideas of pensions, some access to health care like Korea where you partial pay and is still mostly private with some government money, perhaps some income support if you can't work (IE not lazy) but other types of spending should be kept to a minimum except for infrastructure (real infrastructure like roads, bridges, and rails not the fake stuff like windmills, etc).  Government can do a few things well rather than many things poorly.  There are many things the government shouldn't be into in the first place.  Korea doesn't do a lot of other social spending because they expected the Chaebols too.  In return they got lots of favoritism from the government.  Japan was similar in some ways.  Asian socialism.  (Never been true capitalism here.) 


  • OnNut81
  • The Legend

    • 2530

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2021, 12:15:02 pm »
No, not really. 

I support the ideas of pensions, some access to health care like Korea where you partial pay and is still mostly private with some government money, perhaps some income support if you can't work (IE not lazy) but other types of spending should be kept to a minimum except for infrastructure (real infrastructure like roads, bridges, and rails not the fake stuff like windmills, etc).  Government can do a few things well rather than many things poorly.  There are many things the government shouldn't be into in the first place.  Korea doesn't do a lot of other social spending because they expected the Chaebols too.  In return they got lots of favoritism from the government.  Japan was similar in some ways.  Asian socialism.  (Never been true capitalism here.) 

How do you feel about publicly funded universities, and the government backing loans to students who otherwise wouldn't qualify and be able to pay the lower than cost tuition at those publicly funded universities?   I'm guessing you're against governments using taxpayer money so someone that can't afford to is able to get through university.  One of the reasons plumbers and elevator repair technicians are in such demand today is the government gave every kid that couldn't afford university life a boost so they could get a degree just because. 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4291

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2021, 02:34:13 pm »
How do you feel about publicly funded universities, and the government backing loans to students who otherwise wouldn't qualify and be able to pay the lower than cost tuition at those publicly funded universities?   I'm guessing you're against governments using taxpayer money so someone that can't afford to is able to get through university.  One of the reasons plumbers and elevator repair technicians are in such demand today is the government gave every kid that couldn't afford university life a boost so they could get a degree just because. 

Well, considering it was a very expensive loan and I had to pay back every red cent and I did, the government loaned me something but never gave me something.  Also, post secondary needs to be overhauled so that more grads actually get jobs.  Maybe in this case with jobless grads, all or some of the loans should be written off.  Either way, it was no hand out for me.  I spent years even from here repaying.  Though I understand many got over here and defaulted.  Maybe on 2,1 million today repaying thousands of student debt would be too hard hence the need to teach elsewhere for more money. 

I never got anything except a loan. 

I did say in a previous thread universities should change their teaching and the way they teach or die.  If no changes, then no eligibility for government student loans.  Start their own universities and get the private sector on board.  Let all these other places pushing the woke bs and teaching very few skills go under. 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 02:36:05 pm by hangook77 »


  • tylerthegloob
  • The Legend

    • 2826

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2021, 03:16:21 pm »
I did say in a previous thread universities should change their teaching and the way they teach or die.  If no changes, then no eligibility for government student loans.

that seems awful pro-regulation of you

Quote
Start their own universities and get the private sector on board.  Let all these other places pushing the woke bs and teaching very few skills go under. 

seems like universities are doing pretty well financially by making us take a few classes of interpretive dance or whatnot
more gg more skill


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2021, 07:56:19 pm »
... except for infrastructure (real infrastructure like roads, bridges, and rails not the fake stuff like windmills, etc)....

As a Dutchie, I'm *deeply* offended by your assertation that windmills are fake.

I can tell you from my own experience that they're not fake.
I have many friends who can also tell you that they're not fake.
*Everybody* I know would tell you that they're not fake.
Windmills are real! Really real!
 >:(

(:wink:)


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4291

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2021, 01:09:32 pm »
that seems awful pro-regulation of you

seems like universities are doing pretty well financially by making us take a few classes of interpretive dance or whatnot

It's not about pro regulation.  A private university that takes no government money or accepts no government student loans can do as it wishes.  But if the government is going to give money to institutions or make them eligible for student loans, then government should make sure students are actually employable so there are less defaults on student loans after gradutation.  This is just government protecting their regulation.  Even the arts could have some basic courses with computers and business first year.  Maybe first two years should take on more of a college in class all day setting with lots of practice and hands on training for math, computer, science, accounting, etc.  Having a prof walk into class for accounting and lecture about the "matching principle" or "the going concern principle" and then go home with teaching very few physical math or accounting problems or examples  is a problem of any technical training at the university level.  Lots of practice with hands on instruction would be more needed here.  Same may even go for teaching a BEd from what I can tell.  More hands on with training classroom managment and games and activities and strategies hands on rather than lecture on theory or physcology only.  Make grads more employable.  If they are not employable, the government will just lsoe it's student loan money due to defaults. 

Universities make money and are doing very well financially due to milking you and the government then doing nothing to help get you a job.  They live well at your expense and the tenured profs will advocate any position to keep the money flowing in for their tenured 6 figure making ass.  (Of course, as I understand it now, they will hire juniors for pennies on the dollar now and not give them tenure while the folks at the top pocket even more.  But that is a new wrench thrown into the system.)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 01:12:31 pm by hangook77 »


  • KoreaBoo
  • Expert Waygook

    • 633

    • May 25, 2014, 04:00:42 pm
    • Vancouver Island
Re: Old age in the rice fields
« Reply #36 on: Today at 09:58:59 am »
Damn.

I see very, very old people: men & women, pulling huge *** cardboard trolleys and I think: we gotta help them somehow.

An old women refused my handful of money with such vigor that it took me four years to realize I could donate in December under the guise "Merry Christmas!"

The generation that built this country worked extremely hard.  They also have a strong sense of pride and accomplishment for their contributions.  To offer them money can be seen as a huge insult to their value to society.

The younger generation has no appreciation as to what it took to build this country and tend to think things have always been this way.  They don't appreciate good work, and will easily take your money because they feel the fact they sit in school all day entitles them to it.  They have very little to no value to the contribution to the country.

Massive difference.