You are also thinking that I have never encountered women/girls wearing hijab and niqab. Not true at all.
if their clothing didn't cover their neck and bodies he would chide them, mercilessly.
Contrary to the girls we also had 2 Muslim boys in our class and they always wore what they wanted to
And NOBODY would make fun of them at all, but we would feel so bad for them...WE asked WHY DO YOU HAVE TO WEAR THESE CLOTHES, ARE YOU OK?>
WHY DO YOU HAVE TO WEAR THESE CLOTHES, ARE YOU OK?>>>
Please stop saying that it does not originate from the Quran... It does. Being modest is encapsulated there in your prophet's words 24:31...
understand your need to defend Islam because it resides in you
Most Muslim people in Western countries are holding their tongue when it comes to commenting on non-Muslims' clothing. In some ways, they practice Democracyand liberty better than native Westerners who can't seem to mind their own business.
Either way, if you disagree the solution is simple, don't be Muslim.
To be fair that's because it's not their country or their culture. Do you think if a load of Western female immigrants suddenly appeared in a Muslim country walking around in Western style clothing, the locals would hold their tongues?
I believe dippedinblush explicitly mentioned that she only took issue in cases where women are *forced* to abide by conservative values. "If you disagree, don't be Muslim" isn't much of an option for women who are forced to be Muslim. I do support parent's rights to raise their children according to their custom. At the same time, if the kid grows up and breaks with that custom, I'd hope the parents would meet that with some amount of grace. Many do, some don't - not saying that I'm identifying a trend of oppression here, just talking about a specific situation.
True, but she brought up a lot of other issues and questions which I'm trying to answer which is why this is going on.It's impossible to force someone to be a Muslim. Really, it's impossible. You can force someone to dress like a Muslim and act like one, but you can't force someone to be one.
So a Muslim immigrant fresh off the plane understands the concept of leaving people who have different beliefs alone and not trying to change them as he/she is now in a culture where people are allowed to dress how they wish.
Well, we have seen in both colonial tims and modern times, as soon as westerners set foot in some other place they don't hold their tongues and do have 50 things to say about how people should dress and act and that somehow it's their country.
Are you including yourself in that gross generalisation?
Marti is the opposite. He’s taken it upon himself to tell westerners how they should behave instead of the locals.
I had no idea that you responded to me until now cause the page was so far forward. I just looked back on a whim and saw your thoughtful response.I still maintain that wearing these clothes *for women who don't have a choice, is wrong! Not only is it hot and uncomfortable, it's wrong to hinge modesty on women and the clothes that they wear.You are also thinking that I have never encountered women/girls wearing hijab and niqab. Not true at all.I grew up with girls wearing the hijab and niqab in my elementary and middle school...(My school was one that accepted a certain number of refugees) In the girl's locker room (getting ready for PE) we would help 2 of our classmates in our class (there were 3 girls) tuck in their traditional clothes into their skirts or pants (they were wearing so many layers to cover their skin as well), so they could participate in Phys. Ed.When I say they needed to be covered up they wore.. turtle necks and so many layers. 2 of the girls would participate in sports but they would be so hot and uncomfortable, and they were always checking whether or not their skin was showing.And NOBODY would make fun of them at all, but we would feel so bad for them...WE asked WHY DO YOU HAVE TO WEAR THESE CLOTHES, ARE YOU OK?>>>They would always say: It's my religion. The other girl would/could not participate because she wasn't allowed to do any gym activities because her father didn't allow her to mingle with boys in the PE class. She also wasn't allowed to wear pants.Contrary to the girls we also had 2 Muslim boys in our class and they always wore what they wanted to. They could play any sport with shorts and a tee and NOT have to be covered up. They were free... and they also chided the girls wearing hijab and niqab that they needed to cover up more when they were ATTEMPTING to play ANY SPORT! I remember a boy named Hammad that would go around to 2 girls and check what they were wearing and if their clothing didn't cover their neck and bodies he would chide them, mercilessly.Do NOT tell me that I don't have an understanding (at least a little bit) of the struggle of women wearing these oppressive clothes. I don't have any issue at all what they wear but what I DO have a problem with is why WOMEN have the ONUS of being MODEST in Muslim culture? Why does religion and custom/culture make women hang MODESTY on them? Why is it ok for a Muslim boy to be free to play soccer with shorts and a tee shirt, and yet a Muslim girl of the same age has to wear layers of clothes and be so uncomfortable doing the same activity because she is Muslim? Please stop saying that it does not originate from the Quran... It does. Being modest is encapsulated there in your prophet's words 24:31...Why has this verse in the Quran become the burden of women? Perhaps you will say that this meant to be a, b, and c, but that isn't reality at all. What is reality is the subjugation of women.Of course I will say to you it must be hard for women wearing the hijab and being outstanding in Western society (but it wasn't when I was little and that was a loooooong time ago, nobody laughed or made fun at all..). And I don't see it being hard for Muslim women wearing scarves in Canada AT ALL. No one would say a nasty word about a woman wearing a headscarf these days. Other countries maybe?~ I do think that wearing a hijab/niqab/ or burqa is WRONG if the person doesn't want to and is/has been forced to. And to be honest I feel like the whole SITUATION of a woman enrobing not only her body, but face has been created from the start by men wishing to exert control and power over women by covering them, diminishing their individuality and by using religion as a justification.Women wearing these threads (for the most part) are not Bedouins scrounging around in the desert eking out an existence. A woman is not honouring her heritage by wearing these clothes. They are hot and uncomfortable (coming from people I have met). And they block peripheral vision (the burqua and niqab). Why would someone wear that?I understand your need to defend Islam because it resides in you, and as a MALE you have all the power of your religion to fulfill yourself as a man because it was made by men for men. But you should also understand the sisters you can not see who are suffering due to an oppressive system which they wish to break free from. There are many women who have immigrated to other countries and they are happy that they are free from the veil as well.
Dippedin Blush's answer is perfect. The huge majority of time there is no choice. Women are forced to dress and behave a certain or get stoned. Not in the good way either.
The huge majority of the time? Son, I'm betting you've never interacted with a Muslim person once in your life but you somehow have personal knowledge of some 800-900 million Muslim women. It's impossible for even the most skilled researcher or statistician to make such a ridiculous conclusion, yet your old ass sitting in "The tropics" (hereinafter known is China) seems to have developed Noble Prize worthy research methodology. I take it you've seen a Muslim women getting stoned for not wearing a veil? No? Then please shut up.As they say "You know nothing (about Islam). In fact you know less than nothing. If you knew that you knew nothing you'd know something."
i had a lot of muslim classmates in high school and many of them wore hijabs and i know (from facebook) that at least a few of them have decided to stop wearing them. fortunately, i dont think any of them got disowned or stoned
I never have seen a woman stoned but don't doubt that it happens in some parts of the world. Fortunately, most of the muslims I think I have met practiced a more moderate form of the faith and not a more extreme one as has been practiced in some places.
They don't get stoned for not dressing modestly enough, they get beaten or slapped in some countries, like these. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/19/video-of-iran-morality-police-wrestling-with-woman-sparks-outragehttps://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/saudi/outrage-as-riyadh-video-shows-religious-police-abuse-1.1669751