Imagine....

It's also quite ironic that you said this on this actual thread.

"it's very difficult to distinguish when people
are joking and when they really are that clueless. On a platform such as this, where communication is done through writing, you can't read facial expressions, tone of
voice or the mood of the environment, making it even more difficult."

Which would suggest that you're at least aware of reasons other than sexual, why men might want to see women's faces when they're talking to them.

Not ironic at all as we're talking about completely different issues.

Certain aspects of communication might be difficult without facial expressions, but communication, in civil society, requires mutual consent.
If it's difficult for you to understand what a person is saying, while they are wearing a religious covering over their face, it remains 100% a YOU problem.
A woman is under no obligation to disrobe simply because you can't understand the message. Her communication with you is on her terms, not yours.
The need to fully read the emotional cues of a person's face are only going to be necessary when engaging in deep conversation and if you know anything
about Muslim woman then a deep conversation is the very last thing a Muslim woman, in a burka or niqab, is going to want to have with a strange man.
If you're a parent and your child's teacher wears a niqab then count yourself lucky, unlike you, the kid will grow up giving a lot less of a crap about people who dress unusually.

If you really have serious trouble understanding what people because you can't see their mouths then you might have a serous problem... and I'm not being sarcastic.

According to this research article, Psychopaths tend to focus more on a speaker's mouth than the rest of their face. The theory being that psychopaths struggle with reading
emotions so they ignore emotional windows such as the eyes and instead tend to focus on the mouth of the speaker.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2015.00552/full

Not ironic at all as we're talking about completely different issues.

Certain aspects of communication might be difficult without facial expressions, but communication, in civil society, requires mutual consent.
If it's difficult for you to understand what a person is saying, while they are wearing a religious covering over their face, it remains 100% a YOU problem.
A woman is under no obligation to disrobe simply because you can't understand the message. Her communication with you is on her terms, not yours.
The need to fully read the emotional cues of a person's face are only going to be necessary when engaging in deep conversation and if you know anything
about Muslim woman then a deep conversation is the very last thing a Muslim woman, in a burka or niqab, is going to want to have with a strange man.
If you're a parent and your child's teacher wears a niqab then count yourself lucky, unlike you, the kid will grow up giving a lot less of a crap about people who dress unusually.

If you really have serious trouble understanding what people because you can't see their mouths then you might have a serous problem... and I'm not being sarcastic.

According to this research article, Psychopaths tend to focus more on a speaker's mouth than the rest of their face. The theory being that psychopaths struggle with reading
emotions so they ignore emotional windows such as the eyes and instead tend to focus on the mouth of the speaker.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2015.00552/full

 
So let me get this straight. You're telling me you know best what kind of conversations Muslim women want to be having with men they don't know and in your mind they don't need to fully display their emotions for those interactions?  While of course you, as a Muslim man are free to.

So let me get this straight. You're telling me you know best what kind of conversations Muslim women want to be having with men they don't know and in your mind they don't need to fully display their emotions for those interactions?  While of course you, as a Muslim man are free to.

...No, you have not got it straight.

Islamically, both Muslim men and women are not permitted to have frivolous/idle conversation with members of the opposite sex or even be alone with
someone of the opposite sex who isn't a family member or spouse. There are exceptions, such as work, legal matters, medical matters etc. but nothing social.

Now, not all Muslims follow these teachings, I've bent the rules many times.

...but, you can bet anything that a woman wearing a niqab is going to to take these teachings seriously. If she's talking to you, she's also trying to keep the
conversation as brief as possible and isn't comfortable speaking to you.

That said, I've never come across anyone who makes this big of a fuss about seeing someone's face, behind a niqab. Do you speak to many niqab wearing
Muslim women in South Korea?

There are exceptions, such as work, legal matters, medical matters etc. but nothing social.

yes, and those areas were the only ones I gave examples in, (teaching and nursing) which you chose to ignore. I never said anything about socialising or women walking down the street, which you constantly referred to. Nor did I ever give my own opinion (or 'make a big fuss') on whether I think women should wear the niqab or not. All I said was there are other, more prevalent, arguments as to why Muslim women in some circumstances shouldn't wear a niqab that are not to do with perverted men wanting to look at their faces. That was it.

So why do you think some NHS hospitals in the UK have banned the niqab for frontline staff? They're perverts? They're Islamaphobic? They're sweaty Westerners who resent the fact that other races keep cool in thicker clothes? Or they think it reduces the quality of  the customer service the patients receive?

I don't know why they banned it. You'd have to ask them. If they did it because other people feel uncomfortable, then frankly, that's a shit reason.

If you're bothered, you're the one that needs to grow up and control your emotions, not the person wearing a perfectly acceptable garment.

yes, and those areas were the only ones I gave examples in, (teaching and nursing) which you chose to ignore. I never said anything about socialising or women walking down the street, which you constantly referred to. Nor did I ever give my own opinion (or 'make a big fuss') on whether I think women should wear the niqab or not. All I said was there are other, more prevalent, arguments as to why Muslim women in some circumstances shouldn't wear a niqab that are not to do with perverted men wanting to look at their faces. That was it.

Frontline nurse staff in the UK can't wear a niqab, ok. I don't agree with it, but that's the law. You don't have to agree with a law, in fact, you're fully within your rights to protest, petition or take legal action to change any law you wish.
The UK has some rather strange laws too, The Salmon Act of 1986 states that you'll be punished for "Handling salmon (or fish) in  suspicious circumstances." Ridiculous, right?
Just because something is a law doesn't mean it makes sense.

It might make more sense if you understand from their perspective.

The Islamic instruction for all Muslim woman is to cover their "awrah" in public. Awrah refers to everything except the hands, feet and face. Covering the face isn't necessary, but some Muslim women choose to cover their face for different reasons, these include surrendering their vanity so they can focus on God. It's important to understand there's nothing in Islam that prohibits them from showing their face in public, it's a personal choice for them. This means that there is some flexibility (they may remove it in certain circumstances and put it back on later).

It's more an issue of liberty than one of Religion.

What I don't buy is that there is a legitimate reason for them not to wear it at school or hospital. I think it's simply a case of certain people being afraid of people who are very different and an irrational fear that their country is suddenly going to adopt Sharia law. The difficulty with communication is probably because you're too distracted by the woman's niqab and can't focus on what she's saying i.e. your problem.

People are different, get used to it.

Imagine watching sunsets like this from your yard every night?

I thought religious discussions here were banned?

Imagine being as sad as LIC, some old fart supposedly living in "DA TROPICZ" who gets his jollies trolling on a website dedicated to teaching in South Korea. He's had two good posts, one where he roasted Martin about Admiral whathisface, and another where he detailed his wife's visa woes in China.

That's beautiful! Is it your yard or 'a' yard?

My yard

I thought religious discussions here were banned?

Imagine being as sad as LIC, some old fart supposedly living in "DA TROPICZ" who gets his jollies trolling on a website dedicated to teaching in South Korea. He's had two good posts, one where he roasted Martin about Admiral whathisface, and another where he detailed his wife's visa woes in China.

I did 6 years in Korea with a specific goal and timeframe to achieve it from the moment I applied. To whit, make enough money to get set up in the tropics.

Q1: How many people on here are in Korea right now teaching?

Q2: How many people here went to Korea with a clear specific goal and a clear timeframe to achieve it - did it - and then are living their goal?

You???????

Imagine making a living hammering on these. Non-musicians can never understand the thrill of being onstage.

Imagine an October that wasn't this hot.  (My tues school has a problem with their air con which makes it worse.)  Otherwise, not much else to say.  I'm sure Mr. martin will come on to defend it though. 

Imagine making a living hammering on these. Non-musicians can never understand the thrill of being onstage.

YES!

In my younger days, befor ebecomingn a university professor with Tenure (OLD AGE... happens to the best of Us), i was treading the stage of jazz clubs and bars in my native . Rocking that flute day and night. Live Jazz is what I do.
I learned to play this amazing little instrument, my dear friend the flute, in a theater workshop with during a visit to NYC in the early 1980s. My jaw dropped when I first heard Jazz musician Don Pullen playing a Boogaloo beat on a boombox as a company member in an act called Last Tango in Little Rock. A few months later, on the same stage, I saw my first live Jazz.

imagine having a 3 day week this week with only 2 days of teaching (its me. i'm the guy)

Imagine an October that wasn't this hot.  (My tues school has a problem with their air con which makes it worse.)  Otherwise, not much else to say.  I'm sure Mr. martin will come on to defend it though. 

Dude, it's not that bad. Man up and stop whining about it.

Get the sticky icky, bro. ;)

Marty’s definitely on something with his schizophrenic cross-posting or he needs to be.

Marty’s definitely on something with his schizophrenic cross-posting or he needs to be.

I think it's hilarious the number of people obsessed with me on this forum who get so wound up over everything.

I think it's hilarious the number of people obsessed with me on this forum who get so wound up over everything.

Youre super interesting, cucky ;)
Get dat sticky icky!

Youre super interesting, cucky ;)
Get dat sticky icky!

I accept your petition to be the first member of the DeMart fan club.

I accept your petition to be the first member of the DeMart fan club.

Nah, Captain Corea started it ;)