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  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 3022

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2021, 02:59:52 pm »
this just in from flawed reasoning news:
trump voters 400% more likely to die from coronavirus
wow!

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here.  It's an overstatement of the case, and the numbers don't go there, exactly.

But the reasoning isn't flawed. 

Unvaccinated people are multiple times more likely to die than vaccinated people if they get Covid.
Those same unvaccinated people are less like likely to follow mitigation measures, therefore much more likely to get Covid than vaccinated people.
Donald Trump followers are much more likely than any other (political) demographic to be unvaccinated.
Thus Donald Trump followers are much more likely to die of Covid than other groups.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2021, 03:39:59 pm »
Salicylic acid is part of aspirin. It's also a skin care product for treating acne. It also treats dandruff and warts. Stuff can be effective against multiple conditions.
Yes, that's of course true, but insofar as I can tell, there's no link between it and reductions in viral load. My question wasn't rhetorical: I'm still uncertain what aspect of Hydroxychloroquine was being examined as a treatment for the corona virus.

How long has ivermectin been tested? If it's reaching a similar duration and showing results, then people shouldn't resist it either. I mean, is there really THAT much less research and testing with ivermectin vs. the vaccine (at the vaccine's release date)?

There's been a lot of studies done on ivermectin, but only recently has it been studied as a possible anti-viral.
Here's one of the more recent studies done that shows that it has the potential to eventually be useful for the treatment of covid:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

Disclaimer: Please note that I'm not suggesting that shooting yourself up with horse dewormer is anything but sheer idiocy. The stuff needs to be researched, modified, and tested first!


As for mRNA vaccines, they've been intensely theorized about, studied, and refined for about 35 years. Having it specifically produce spike proteins that will trigger an immuno-response against covid is, obviously, pretty recent.
That said, making a virus specific mRNA vaccine is all about finding the appropriate protein codes to mount on the delivery system (the mechanism that will get the mRNA through the cell membranes and into the cytoplasm where the ribosomes can then read the code and crank out the appropriate proteins). It is the delivery system that has taken so very long to develop.

Not to say that finding the right antigen proteins is trivial, but it's not the long and grueling process that the rest of it was.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 03:43:58 pm by Kyndo »


  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 997

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Sierra Leone
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2021, 06:58:12 pm »
this just in from flawed reasoning news:
trump voters 400% more likely to die from coronavirus
wow!

No big loss.


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2811

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2021, 08:14:38 pm »
this just in from flawed reasoning news:
trump voters 400% more likely to die from coronavirus
wow!

I wish it were higher.


  • hippo
  • Super Waygook

    • 351

    • July 16, 2011, 11:28:36 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2021, 01:24:59 am »
I wish it were higher.

Wishing people's death seems slightly harsh.  Death is so final. 

If people were so concerned about coronavirus, they would be making sure the globe got vaccinated rather than focusing so much on voters in one country.  Money is just a story.  There are enough resources to vaccinate the globe, dropping patents, so I do not see why focusing on voters in a country with a small percentage of the world's population is useful.  Viruses do not directly care about the development status or GDP of nations.

I did not vote for the elephant tribe, reluctantly choosing the donkey tribe instead insofar as it means anything, but I am not really sure why people wish for more members of a voting block to die. 

It seems like you should need an extraordinarily high justification for wanting people to die (e.g. killing a school shooter in the act because they are killing people).


Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2021, 02:07:52 am »
I wish it were higher.
My man! Wishing death on those that don't agree with you politically.

Well done. Fine person you are and fine company you keep.


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2811

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2021, 07:04:06 am »
My man! Wishing death on those that don't agree with you politically.

Well done. Fine person you are and fine company you keep.

Just the Trump voters who choose to not get vaccinated and not wear masks for idiotic and selfish reasons. Just a modern day version of “natural selection”.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 07:54:26 am by Savant »


Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #67 on: September 30, 2021, 11:40:01 am »
Just the Trump voters who choose to not get vaccinated and not wear masks for idiotic and selfish reasons. Just a modern day version of “natural selection”.
99% of them will be fine. That survival rate is too high. You got any other ideas to handle them?


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2811

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2021, 11:48:05 am »
99% of them will be fine. That survival rate is too high. You got any other ideas to handle them?

No vaccination and no mask; no, I don't think, 99% of them will be fine.

Handle them? Nah, I would just deny them medical attention if they wish to deny that Covid exists.


Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #69 on: September 30, 2021, 12:23:46 pm »
No vaccination and no mask; no, I don't think, 99% of them will be fine.
What % do you think would die and what data do you have to support that?

Quote
Handle them? Nah, I would just deny them medical attention if they wish to deny that Covid exists.
You'd have it be written law that hospitals can deny treatment based on political belief/vaccination status/political ideology?


Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2021, 12:36:40 pm »
This thread... KILLING or DYING for an ideology?

It reminds me of a movie I once saw.

This was before he started getting in the mess and was driving the ship to them in an escape pod, and I think it is because it was before his powers started getting out of control, and he was really a child, still wasn't in a bad state of mind... still had a child's curiosity and innocence.
 In this he is a boy in a classroom, and looks at a drawing that is of some sort, and the boys in the classroom start giving him a hard time about it.

He is telling the teacher what he did with the drawing and the teacher shows it to the class and they are going nuts.

The teacher asks him if he wants to continue to stay with them, but he says he'll take the punishment.

Integrity. Use it or lose it. What people do with their own body is of no conern to you.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #71 on: September 30, 2021, 12:41:27 pm »
You'd have it be written law that hospitals can deny treatment based on political belief/vaccination status/political ideology?
That would be an utter disaster for a myriad of different reasons.  :huh:

On the other hand, triaging patients depending on their vaccination status has been up for consideration for a while now, the argument being that available beds are severely limited, and that those without the appropriate vaccines are less likely to survive or benefit from treatment than those who do.
   
    Thoughts? There are good points to be made both for and against this, in my opinion.

It reminds me of a movie I once saw...
I'm wracking my brain for a movie that would fit your description, and for some reason, the only thing that comes to mind is the video for Pearl Jam's "Jeremy".

Which is an awesome song, so thanks for bringing it to mind.  :smiley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS91knuzoOA&ab_channel=PearljamVEVO



« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 12:44:20 pm by Kyndo »


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2811

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #72 on: September 30, 2021, 12:48:30 pm »
What % do you think would die and what data do you have to support that?
You'd have it be written law that hospitals can deny treatment based on political belief/vaccination status/political ideology?

Why use deaths solely as a measure? You can be severely affected by Covid without dying, which also puts a burden on the health system.
You've used political belief and ideology as a factor, not me. I don't care who they support but facts are that most of the non-vaccinated and non-mask wearing crowd are Republicans ergo likely Trump supporters.

If someone has chosen not to get vaccinated during a pandemic then they are a public health danger to the safety of the many [doctors/nurses/patients/family members] which should trump [the irony] that of those who put themselves first.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 01:51:33 pm by Savant »


Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #73 on: September 30, 2021, 12:52:41 pm »
people do with their own body is of no conern to you.

Someone wants to get drunk, no concern of mine.
Same person gets behind the wheel, now it becomes my concern.

After getting my 2nd shot I have very little fear about getting the virus, what does concern me is how long this virus sticks around and the effect it has on local and global economies.

When a person refuses to take the vaccine they end up:

- draining hospital resources when they ultimately do get sick
- giving the virus more opportunities to mutate
- prolonging the pandemic
- straining and crippling our economies

When your actions endanger the rest of society they become more than your business.

I struggle to comprehend how thick someone has to be to not understand these rather basic arguments.


  • tylerthegloob
  • The Legend

    • 2946

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #74 on: September 30, 2021, 01:09:05 pm »
When a person refuses to take the vaccine they end up:

- draining hospital resources when they ultimately do get sick

obese people drain hospital resources too (i assume).  should fat people pay more for health insurance? (do they already? idk). i dont mean to troll you. i think these questions are related. if people who refuse to vaccine have to forfeit some rights, what about people who refuse to diet? what about people who refuse something more specific (idk like drinking sugar-free soda)? where do we draw the line? am i way off base here?
more gg more skill


Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #75 on: September 30, 2021, 01:31:00 pm »
obese people drain hospital resources too (i assume).  should fat people pay more for health insurance? (do they already? idk). i dont mean to troll you. i think these questions are related. if people who refuse to vaccine have to forfeit some rights, what about people who refuse to diet? what about people who refuse something more specific (idk like drinking sugar-free soda)? where do we draw the line? am i way off base here?

If I had things my way, obesity would NOT be recognised as a disability and you would not be entitled to a cent in benefits or welfare. It's only the US, the UK and Canada (I think) that have these warped idea, policies and culture which actively keep people disgustingly enormous at the cost of the taxpayer. Good luck trying to get fat so you can live off benefits in SA. South African state benefits probably wouldn't cover a weeks' groceries. In Korea? I've got my issues with Korea, but one thing I can commend them for is that people still have a sense of propriety regarding their appearance in public unlike many westerners who seem to have lost their ability to feel shame.

Where does the line get drawn? Good question, I'd say when your actions directly endanger the public.

When you're obese and the taxpayers is paying for it, yes, you're a fat parasite, but you're not putting anyone in immediate danger so that can change when it changes. Anti-vaxers are, on top of taxing the economy and healthcare system, putting everyone else in very real danger is each day the pandemic lasts increases the likelihood of a new a deadlier variant mutating.


  • tylerthegloob
  • The Legend

    • 2946

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #76 on: September 30, 2021, 01:47:44 pm »
i think you're spot on as always aristocrat ;)
more gg more skill


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6979

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2021, 02:03:44 pm »
When you're obese and the taxpayers is paying for it, yes, you're a fat parasite, but you're not putting anyone in immediate danger so that can change when it changes.

The fatter a person is, the less likely the vaccine is to work.

The fatter a person is, the more likely they are to be sick longer, meaning the more chance the virus has to mutate.

A stronger immune system - which comes with being healthy - means a shorter period of illness.

The less in shape people are, the longer this pandemic will last.

Fully vaccinated? Oh, you’ve still got to wear a mask and socially distance because of all the mutated variants. Bleh.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6979

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2021, 02:09:59 pm »
The least vaccinated states also have higher obesity rates than the most vaccinated states, further compounding the problem. Unvaccinated and in great shape? You’ll beat the virus quickly, meaning very low chance of mutation. But how many Americans are in great shape? Not many. Same holds true for most of the rest of the world.


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4951

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Cairo, Egypt (formerly Seoul)
Re: US States ranked by fully vaccinated
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2021, 03:56:53 pm »
If you think if healthcare as an insured service (which it is regardless of who is funding it), it is entirely reasonable to insist the insured take reasonable measures to prevent loss.

That’s why insurance plans often exclude activities (extreme sports), require regular check-ups to catch things early, and cover vaccines 100% with no co-pay.

I pay a high-BMI premium for my private health insurance, and pre-existing conditions are not covered. Smokers also pay more.

They also commonly have a pandemic exclusion. Both my private and employer funded plans have this.

It wouldn’t surprise me if they started adding exclusions or premiums based on vaccine status since it is statistically significant.

Edits: A couple grammatical errors 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 05:03:19 pm by JNM »