Read 4723 times

  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1717

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #120 on: October 14, 2021, 02:15:19 pm »
what.

how could it be possible that "everybody gets their basic necessities provided to them" but people are impoverished?

you can have basic necessities and still be impoverished, there's more to life than the bare minimum, lol. i do think the social safety net needs to exist for people unable to work due to underlying conditions or advanced age, but i'd prefer to see it exist alongside something like, say, a federal jobs guarantee. imagine how many jobs it would create if the US specifically decided to actually invest in its own country and build a halfway-decent infrastructure


  • tylerthegloob
  • The Legend

    • 2797

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #121 on: October 14, 2021, 02:19:58 pm »
you can have basic necessities and still be impoverished
do go on
more gg more skill


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1717

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #122 on: October 14, 2021, 02:25:58 pm »
do go on

i already have, feel free to read the rest of my post beyond the snippet you clipped whenever you have a spare 5 seconds


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #123 on: October 14, 2021, 02:29:03 pm »
Knock yourself out!  Have at it.
Are you saying that *I'm* claiming that there's no inflation here?  :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:
What??
I did question somebody's (Mr. DeMartino, I believe) assertion that hikes in the minimum wage in Korea are the causative factor in Korean inflation, but I certainly did not deny that inflation has occurred. It clearly has.
Anybody who has been here for a few years will know that inflation in Korea is a thing.

Just in case you doubt my sincerity, here's a formal proclamation of my beliefs:
I, KYNDO, BEING OF FULL AGE AND CAPACITY, FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT INFLATION IS REAL, AND THAT KOREA HAS EXPERIENCED IT OVER THE LAST FEW DECADES. VERILY, I RENOUNCE ANY ASSOCIATION WITH THOSE WHO BELIEVE OTHERWISE, MAY THE LORD SAVE THEIR SOULS.



Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #124 on: October 14, 2021, 02:34:06 pm »
what.

how could it be possible that "everybody gets their basic necessities provided to them" but people are impoverished?
Existing at one step above "struggling to survive" is still poor. Living in a hovel in a crummy project, on food stamps, and and with Medicaid or some crap "Bronze Plan" or whatever isn't much (although compared to the rest of humanity, it's not bad). The thing is you supply that, and then people will say they're still poor and need more. Then it will be calls for the equivalent of those "We send you fresh nutritious meals of things like Salmon and Rice Pilaf or Beef Stroganoff or Our Authentic Lasagna instead of food stamps. Free housing will turn from some project into nice apartments or modern Levittowns. Medicaid will get replaced with the equivalent of salaried employee health insurance (to be clear, out of all of those, the one I really am not too worked up over is the health insurance. I don't think robust single payer is that much of a deal breaker, and if anything is probably a net positive [except possibly for competitive advantage in research and breakthroughs]). Then there will be demands for a $250 debit card or whatever to spend on whatever because people have a right to entertainment and happiness or whatever the F.

Yes, it's the slippery slope fallacy, and it MIGHT not happen, however human behavior says it is highly probable that it will.

As 745Sticky said, I'd rather see the money go into a robust jobs program, whether infrastructure or something else (though infrastructure is great for people with H.S. or less education).  Job creation and employment experience is much more important than subsistence handouts.
Join the DeMart Fan Club!
Shout out to WhenInRome... the first member. Thank you my son!


  • tylerthegloob
  • The Legend

    • 2797

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #125 on: October 14, 2021, 02:42:31 pm »
you can have basic necessities and still be impoverished, there's more to life than the bare minimum, lol.
there's a lot more to life than the bare minimum. the bare minimum of life is what... water and a very small amount of food? kyndo mentioned having basic food, shelter, and medical needs taken care of. in my opinion, if you have those things taken care of, you're not impoverished. so who is impoverished? well, there's lots of homeless people in the US, for example. i would consider them impoverished.

so could you please describe this person who has their basic food shelter and medical needs taken care of and is still impoverished? do they also need to have supreme hexbugs?

i'm just curious where you draw the line. i didn't think i needed to spell it out for you

Quote
i do think the social safety net needs to exist for people unable to work due to underlying conditions or advanced age, but i'd prefer to see it exist alongside something like, say, a federal jobs guarantee. imagine how many jobs it would create if the US specifically decided to actually invest in its own country and build a halfway-decent infrastructure
and i agree. but this doesn't really answer my question
more gg more skill


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #126 on: October 14, 2021, 02:46:31 pm »
We already have that.  They're called housing projects, food stamps and Medicaid. Far from generating upward mobility, it creates sustained poverty.
Because American welfare is a deeply flawed system.
What I'm talking about is providing *everybody* these things regardless of their income, employment status, religion, race, politics, location, etc.
Unemployed? Here's your basic free housing, groceries, and medical.
Blue collared worker? Here's your basic free housing, groceries, and medical.
Filthy rich plutocrat? Here's your basic free housing, groceries, and medical.

No need to apply. No need to show ID. No need to go out and ask for it. Everybody receives it.
Universal and unrestricted access to this basic life-support would remove the stigma associated with "welfare". It also prevents the commercialization of life's basic necessity, which is one of the major flaws of pure capitalism.

That's not to say those programs shouldn't exist or that NHS is a bad idea, simply that those things will not enable a rise out of poverty.  Again, the answer is the creation of conditions that result in a large pool of good paying jobs (especially for labor that doesn't require higher education, though there should also be such jobs for the new H.S. grad- The liberal arts major with an undergrad degree), not benefits or a raised minimum wage.
It's treating the symptoms vs. curing the underlying disease.

In the developed world (ie the USA, which is what we're talking about, I guess), which is essentially a post scarcity society, there is absolutely no reason why *anybody* should lack necessities. There is no *reason* for poverty to exist except that those in power are in favour of maintaining the absolutely disgusting wealth disparity that currently exists. Saying that people will refuse to work if the threat of starving or freezing to death is rubbish. People want their sour cream and onion rippled chips, their fancy hand bags, their gaming rigs, their air-conditioned cars, their south facing windows, their third child etc. People will work in order to make their lives more pleasant/fulfilled.

Mr.DeMartino, keep in mind that I'm arguing what "should" "ideally" "optimally" be the case. I'm aware that this isn't how our current society functions, and for to do so would require catastrophic upheavals in the social order. I'm just grumpy that people seem not to want to recognize that it *is* an ideal and would rather fully support a system that is sustained solely on favouring the few at the expense of everybody else.  :sad:





  • tylerthegloob
  • The Legend

    • 2797

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #127 on: October 14, 2021, 02:51:06 pm »
Existing at one step above "struggling to survive" is still poor.
i dont think having all those needs met would make you "struggling to survive"

Quote
Yes, it's the slippery slope fallacy, and it MIGHT not happen, however human behavior says it is highly probable that it will.
yeah, i dont buy it. even if it did happen, it wouldn't be the end of the world, IMO


Quote
As 745Sticky said, I'd rather see the money go into a robust jobs program, whether infrastructure or something else (though infrastructure is great for people with H.S. or less education).  Job creation and employment experience is much more important than subsistence handouts.
and i agree. but i dont really see why you couldn't have a bit of both (at least considering the state of the US safety net today)
more gg more skill


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5071

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #128 on: October 14, 2021, 06:50:19 pm »
We're talking food delivery, not shipping. Pay attention. 

You can't legislate that wveryone gets 63k a year because very soon the value of 63k ceases to be 63k.

The answer is to create jobs that pay 63k in an open market, not to mandate 63k for entry-level work.

Only a stupid person would think the second option was better than the first.

BTW any comment on your lack of data showing a correlation or causation with minimum wage in Korea and 2 car families?
I knew that would  be your response. You take every post as literally as possible in order to dispute it.

Any comment on your lack of data regarding the minimum wage and the many causations you have attributed to it?


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5071

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #129 on: October 14, 2021, 06:55:51 pm »
Existing at one step above "struggling to survive" is still poor. Living in a hovel in a crummy project, on food stamps, and and with Medicaid or some crap "Bronze Plan" or whatever isn't much (although compared to the rest of humanity, it's not bad). The thing is you supply that, and then people will say they're still poor and need more. Then it will be calls for the equivalent of those "We send you fresh nutritious meals of things like Salmon and Rice Pilaf or Beef Stroganoff or Our Authentic Lasagna instead of food stamps. Free housing will turn from some project into nice apartments or modern Levittowns. Medicaid will get replaced with the equivalent of salaried employee health insurance (to be clear, out of all of those, the one I really am not too worked up over is the health insurance. I don't think robust single payer is that much of a deal breaker, and if anything is probably a net positive [except possibly for competitive advantage in research and breakthroughs]). Then there will be demands for a $250 debit card or whatever to spend on whatever because people have a right to entertainment and happiness or whatever the F.

Yes, it's the slippery slope fallacy, and it MIGHT not happen, however human behavior says it is highly probable that it will.

As 745Sticky said, I'd rather see the money go into a robust jobs program, whether infrastructure or something else (though infrastructure is great for people with H.S. or less education).  Job creation and employment experience is much more important than subsistence handouts.
Somehow and maybe it's just me, but I don't think the homeless are crying out for beef stroganoff.

And what happens to cheap food delivered, the luxury you seem to consider a necessity, when the government provides all these great jobs?


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6837

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #130 on: October 14, 2021, 07:47:39 pm »
There's a labor shortage right now. Not enough workers. So why would the government create more jobs? That would exacerbate the private sector problem. Too many are on disability out of the workforce due to very unhealthy lifestyles.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6837

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #131 on: October 14, 2021, 08:06:06 pm »
how could it be possible that "everybody gets their basic necessities provided to them" but people are impoverished?

Because they swapped their "basic necessities" for crack.

Addicts sold their food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar to obese people who wanted to eat more.

People who can't take care of themselves let alone another person have tons of kids.

Have you met a lot of poor Americans in ghetto hoods and trailer parks?

I have.

And my first thought is Jesus Christ these people should not be reproducing.

At least not until they get their life together.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2934

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #132 on: October 14, 2021, 10:21:17 pm »
Because they swapped their "basic necessities" for crack.

Addicts sold their food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar to obese people who wanted to eat more.

People who can't take care of themselves let alone another person have tons of kids.

Have you met a lot of poor Americans in ghetto hoods and trailer parks?

I have.

And my first thought is Jesus Christ these people should not be reproducing.


My first thought is Jesus Christ would puke in your eyeballs because of your lack of compassion. 


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5071

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #133 on: October 15, 2021, 12:13:24 am »
Too many are on disability out of the workforce due to very unhealthy lifestyles.
This is one of the issues that the ACA addresses with its preventive care mandate. It would be great if this could be expanded upon.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5071

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #134 on: October 15, 2021, 12:15:10 am »
Because they swapped their "basic necessities" for crack.

Addicts sold their food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar to obese people who wanted to eat more.

People who can't take care of themselves let alone another person have tons of kids.

Have you met a lot of poor Americans in ghetto hoods and trailer parks?

I have.

And my first thought is Jesus Christ these people should not be reproducing.

At least not until they get their life together.
That's exactly what one would expect from a Bill Maher acolyte. But he says things of this nature for laughs.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6837

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #135 on: October 15, 2021, 01:24:09 am »
He wouldn’t say that, nor would anyone else on TV, but in general the most poor are more messed up than others in the United States.

Why do those who are the least capable of raising children have the most children?

Why should they have more children than others?


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6837

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #136 on: October 15, 2021, 01:46:33 am »
My first thought is Jesus Christ would puke in your eyeballs because of your lack of compassion.

So Jesus Christ will appear before me and say, “No, you’re wrong. Drug addicts should be having kids before getting clean,” then puke in my eyeballs? That’d be quite the Bible story. But for some saying Jesus Christ is like saying OMG. Doesn’t mean one is a believer. Quoting all of what someone says but erasing the very last bit to make it look worse is bad faith. Would you get puked on, too?


  • Adel
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1417

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #137 on: October 15, 2021, 04:28:11 am »
Wow this thread sure went off on a tangent!  :laugh:


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5071

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #138 on: October 15, 2021, 05:22:23 am »
So Jesus Christ will appear before me and say, “No, you’re wrong. Drug addicts should be having kids before getting clean,” then puke in my eyeballs? That’d be quite the Bible story. But for some saying Jesus Christ is like saying OMG. Doesn’t mean one is a believer. Quoting all of what someone says but erasing the very last bit to make it look worse is bad faith. Would you get puked on, too?
I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ would not be nearly as judgmental as you are LI. That is until Judgment Day.

You sure are condescending.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6837

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Car prices have skyrocketed
« Reply #139 on: October 15, 2021, 06:30:51 am »
To say people shouldn’t have multiple kids they’re unable to take care of is too judgmental and condescending to be spoken? Disagree. Someone’s got to say it. Many people should be saying it. The solution: donating to charities that pay poor people to be on birth control. Until they have the emotional and financial resources to be a parent. Free birth control shipped to low income communities. Stuff that doesn’t have to be remembered like IUD implants. If free is not a good enough incentive, offer money.