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  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5061

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
In support of more cyclists
« on: September 17, 2021, 04:45:22 am »
Bikes are part of the solution for the climate crisis, mobility equity, public health and economic growth.


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2712

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2021, 06:12:25 am »
Agreed.

I am from the bike-friendly city of Vancouver, which has dedicated bike paths, bike racks galore and year-round mild weather for riding (if you don't mind the rain).

When I went to uni in Alberta I was shocked at how angry drivers were that I dared to be on the road, how rare bike racks were and how friggin' cold winters were.


  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 965

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Sierra Leone
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2021, 07:26:30 am »

Bikes are part of the solution for the climate crisis, mobility equity, public health and economic growth.


What are you talking about here? Is there something you want people to do
or is this just your general opinion.  How about: eat more vegetables and
fruit, exercise everyday, ban nuclear weapons, get plenty of sleep.

Also, how about we wait for an American lead in this. Let's move on it
when most Americans cycle to work, use less energy per capita and
become more fit and healthy.


  • plan b
  • Super Waygook

    • 370

    • March 22, 2013, 11:53:06 am
    • Korea
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2021, 07:42:26 am »
Some time ago, I told my gf I should bike to school, and she responded by telling me that the staff would think I was "poor". No doubt that this mindset discourages cycling in Korea.


Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2021, 07:50:03 am »
Some time ago, I told my gf I should bike to school, and she responded by telling me that the staff would think I was "poor". No doubt that this mindset discourages cycling in Korea.

Maybe that's why the ones who do cycle get all the fancy cycling gear, to show people it's just an expensive hobby and not a necessity.


  • plan b
  • Super Waygook

    • 370

    • March 22, 2013, 11:53:06 am
    • Korea
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2021, 07:53:34 am »
People in North America live so far away from work. It's just not feasible to cycle to work. A person that does moderate exercise 3 times a week is going to struggle to cycle 25km to work in the morning, and another 25km back home after work. Not every city is flat either. In addition, how does one dress for work and then get on their bike for a long commute?  You can't wear a suit on a bike, and you don't have a closet for separate clothes at work. You can't even style your hair and then put on a helmet.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7350

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2021, 07:53:53 am »
You exercised, saved money and didn't spew out shit into the atmosphere?

You're poor.


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 546

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2021, 08:04:03 am »
You exercised, saved money and didn't spew out shit into the atmosphere?

You're poor.

How will people know you're not poor if you don't show off your wealth?


  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 965

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Sierra Leone
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2021, 08:04:18 am »

Some time ago, I told my gf I should bike to school, and she responded by telling me that the staff would think I was "poor". No doubt that this mindset discourages cycling in Korea.


Actually, I was thinking the same thing. Korean thinking is still rather narrow
and primitive on issues like this. It is getting better with the younger generations,
but the older people here are just write offs.

I used to work at an elementary school and cycled to work. I would wear shorts
in the summer and then change when I got to work. After about a week I was
called into the afterschool supervisor's office to answer complaints about
my attire on arriving at work. After that I had to change clothes at a public
restroom before I got to school. Seriously primitive mother%$#@#'s.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6830

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2021, 08:08:50 am »
Some time ago, I told my gf I should bike to school, and she responded by telling me that the staff would think I was "poor".

So what did you decide? Are you cycling to work now?


  • plan b
  • Super Waygook

    • 370

    • March 22, 2013, 11:53:06 am
    • Korea
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2021, 08:17:44 am »
So what did you decide? Are you cycling to work now?

No, I kept on taking the bus.. now I'm at a new school over 30 km from home, so cycling is out of the question.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6830

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2021, 08:40:22 am »
No, I kept on taking the bus..

Because you didnít want to look poor? She dissuaded you? Thatís a shame. The next time you get a school closer by, give cycling a try.


Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2021, 09:38:03 am »
The argument isn't that cyclists are a problem, the argument is that roads and urban design can't effectively accommodate both cyclists and vehicles should cyclists begin swarming the roads, en masse.

Regarding pollution. Right now, bikes aren't going to do a damn thing. 0.0001% of the population of Seoul being convinced to ride a bicycle instead of their car to work, in the interest of climate change, will only result in a 0.00001% increase in arrogance and smugness.

Effectively tackling the problem of climate change is going to be, first and foremost, done on a national and global scale, not at a personal or community level. China produces close to 30% of all co2 emissions with the US being 2nd at 15%. However, per capita, the co2 emissions of the US are much higher than China, this proves that:

- The average American is a much bigger consumer than the average Chinese person
- Factories and coal plants produce far more co2 emissions and contribute far more to climate crisis than your happy ass driving to work

So, even if every American (the biggest produces of co2 emissions per capita) makes a dramatic change to his/her lifestyle, co2 emission, on a global scale, aren't going to reduce by more than say 5%.

Recycle, be environmentally conscious and do what you can, but don't convince yourself that the solution is all of us acting like Captain Planet.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 09:39:57 am by Aristocrat »


Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2021, 09:39:59 am »
How will people know you're not poor if you don't show off your wealth?

I know this was tongue in cheek (and this is in no way actually directed at you, it's just something I feel is relevant here), but I just wanted to take the opportunity to say that I've actually known truly rich people, and they're as nondescript as they get (at least the ones who really work for it, not talking about the kids riding on their parents' coat tails). Richest guy I knew wore the same torn jeans and ratty tshirt everyday, and he rode his bike everywhere. I don't even think he owned a car? He'd probably just rent a helicopter or a jet if he really needed to get somewhere fast, haha. They try not to draw any attention to themselves, their time is much more important to them than money is, and they don't spend loads of time shopping. They make quick decisions and don't give a flying **** what anyone else thinks about them -- they've got way too much money to worry about any of that -- not especially about what the guy next to them thinks about their clothes, lol. They honestly have more important things on their minds. They do still purchase the best quality stuff, but it's not normally the loud brands that stand out. A lot of them will specifically avoid anything with obvious logos, so shit like Louis Vuitton is a big no fly zone for them. Whatever they purchase, they purchase because they genuinely like it or don't have the patience for anything that's going to slow them down or fall apart (so, for example, if they purchase a really expensive computer, the best that money can buy, it's not gonna be because it's the best that money can buy -- it's gonna be because they want to ensure they'll have zero lag since lag = wasting their time).

The ones who're always trying to show off their wealth (outside of the formals) are usually not all that wealthy. They might legitimately be financially comfortable and make more money than your average Joe, they might even be pulling in six figures and have investments and savings that will have them retiring as millionaires. But there's a lot of personal dishonesty wrapped up in all of that, haha.

I have no problem with people enjoying nice things, but do it for yourself. If you're doing it just to prove something to others, you need to reevaluate your life.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 07:22:39 pm by Chinguetti »


Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2021, 12:31:21 pm »
Actually, I was thinking the same thing. Korean thinking is still rather narrow
and primitive on issues like this. It is getting better with the younger generations,
but the older people here are just write offs.

I used to work at an elementary school and cycled to work. I would wear shorts
in the summer and then change when I got to work. After about a week I was
called into the afterschool supervisor's office to answer complaints about
my attire on arriving at work. After that I had to change clothes at a public
restroom before I got to school. Seriously primitive mother%$#@#'s.
Your mindset is just as primitive, referring to other people as primitive. The mindset where one presumes to be able to sit in judgment of entire nations of people is now regarded by most of "civilized" society as a primitive, barbaric one. I mean half your schtick is thinking with your dick. Can't get more primitive than that.

Seriously, go worry about yourself before judging entire nations of people as "primitive".
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 12:35:10 pm by Mr.DeMartino »
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  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 965

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Sierra Leone
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2021, 12:38:41 pm »
Your mindset is just as primitive, referring to other people as primitive. The mindset where one presumes to be able to sit in judgment of entire nations of people is now regarded by most of "civilized" society as a primitive, barbaric one. I mean half your schtick is thinking with your dick. Can't get more primitive than that.

Seriously, go worry about yourself before judging entire nations of people as "primitive".

Read the post,please. I said the older, closed-minded, racist generation.
Also, I have experienced this first hand. It isn't hyperbole.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 01:08:28 pm by Kyndo »


  • Swervy
  • Waygookin

    • 23

    • March 09, 2021, 12:56:54 pm
    • Incheon, SK
    more
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2021, 12:40:59 pm »
I don't ride my bike to be environmentally friendly. I know I'm not saving the world with my biking.
I just do it because it's fun. It's one of the very few forms of exercise I actually enjoy doing. I don't see why it would be perceived as being "poor".  Is everyone who walks anywhere also "poor"?
I just throw in some earbuds, crank some tunes that I'm in the mood for, and take some side streets.
Actually, I hate riding on main roads, I never do. I always ride sidewalk or side roads.

I guess another big reason I enjoy biking is because I used to have a zx6r stateside, but I haven't really felt like I want to get one here yet. I guess I'm a bit nervous for that because of the drivers here...
I don't get in shape. I bring the gym to my house and I throw it around.


  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 965

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Sierra Leone
Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2021, 12:53:29 pm »
I don't ride my bike to be environmentally friendly. I know I'm not saving the world with my biking.
I just do it because it's fun. It's one of the very few forms of exercise I actually enjoy doing. I don't see why it would be perceived as being "poor".  Is everyone who walks anywhere also "poor"?
I just throw in some earbuds, crank some tunes that I'm in the mood for, and take some side streets.
Actually, I hate riding on main roads, I never do. I always ride sidewalk or side roads.

I guess another big reason I enjoy biking is because I used to have a zx6r stateside, but I haven't really felt like I want to get one here yet. I guess I'm a bit nervous for that because of the drivers here...

You're right.  My bike was just shy of 2M won. However, I see some other bikes out there,
like Cannondales, that are more than 8-9M won. Definitely, not a poor person's sport if
you want quality.


Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2021, 12:53:48 pm »
Actually, I was thinking the same thing. Korean thinking is still rather narrow
and primitive on issues like this. It is getting better with the younger generations,
but the older people here are just write offs.

I used to work at an elementary school and cycled to work. I would wear shorts
in the summer and then change when I got to work. After about a week I was
called into the afterschool supervisor's office to answer complaints about
my attire on arriving at work. After that I had to change clothes at a public
restroom before I got to school. Seriously primitive mother%$#@#'s.

By your own admission, this has nothing to do with mode of transportation but rather your attire.

It's morning, all the parents are dropping their kids off. Do you really think the sight of a teacher strolling through the entrance, like Vince Mcmahon, wearing tights which clearly showcase his morning wood is unreasonable to complain about?


Re: In support of more cyclists
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2021, 12:58:32 pm »
"Our infrastructure is designed for vehicles and pedestrians, which are essential and without that infrastructure, things would break down in short order. Cycling is a luxury indulgence because of that."
"But it helps save the environment!"
"Okay, maybe (not really according to the numbers), but that doesn't change the infrastructure argument."  (Uhm....Plus a bunch of angry rambling and ranting about cyclsits tbf, often by out of shape people in SUVs)
"We should design cities better to accommodate bikes."
"Okay, and that's great for any future city and when we get drones, but as for now..." (Maybe worded a bit more bombastically)
"But bikes help us lose weight"
"And that's great, but we're talking about traffic and infrastructure here, that doesn't really address it"
"People who drive cars are just showing off their money (polishes expensive racing bike) and being selfish and need to share the road. Also, those old people on those old bikes need to get out of my way. Same with pedestrians. By the way, look at me and my virtue!"

Now granted this is over the top and heavily one-sided, but those appear to be the core arguments-

1. It helps the environment
2. It helps people exercise
3. Cities should be better designed to accommodate bikes
4. People with cars are just showing off their money

Only one of those somewhat addresses the current infrastructure situation. Of course, unless we completely overhaul things and have a city that is largely flatland, you can't really solve the bike access problem. This is before you get to the issue of the fact that money doesn't grow on trees and every dollar/won spent on turning your city into Biketopia is a dollar/won not spent on health care/education/disabled access/homelessness/etc. All for something that might have limited environmental impact AT BEST and would certainly inconvenience a lot of people with their daily lives, particularly people with children (and especially multiple children of varying ages).
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