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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2021, 12:42:25 pm »
2021 public school contract renewal for 1st and 2nd semester has come and gone... yet you're still here.
You've been in Korea longer than this website has existed.

Hangook77/Hiddeninkorea, you're nothing but talk.
Seriously. Hangook77, sorry to be blunt, but Fing put up or shut up. Stop being just a bunch of talk.

At this point the best thing might be to just post a red randa picture any time hangook77 posts about China


  • hangook77
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #81 on: September 13, 2021, 02:12:41 pm »
Seriously. Hangook77, sorry to be blunt, but Fing put up or shut up. Stop being just a bunch of talk.

At this point the best thing might be to just post a red randa picture any time hangook77 posts about China

Put up about what?  If inflation knocks my total pay to under 3 million in 2021 WON I will be gone.  You stay and work for 2.1 mil or whatever it is.  If you make much more than 3 mil or me, then you have no place in the conversation. 


  • tylerthegloob
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2021, 02:38:10 pm »
oh ffs. you include your housing in your salary calculation, yeah? if you include housing, no one is making 2.1. its a boogeyman. your obsession with the number makes no sense
more gg more skill


Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #83 on: September 13, 2021, 08:01:57 pm »
I already said, when inflation puts my total salary including housing under 3 million in 2021 WON that I will be gone.  I am surprised you are still here.  Anyhow, I guess you're not able to read very well.  Since you never read what I said previously.  Also, once 2022 gets here and covid dies down it will be easy to enter China (possibly 2023).  Lots of good paying offers to be had.  I am currently around 3.6 mil per month facotring the housing, the voertime, the renewal bonus, multiple school allowances, etc.  I would have been over 4 mil in 2021 money a few years ago.  As it falls, then it will be time to go.  If I were 2.1 to 2.3 or 2.5, I"d already be gone.  If I knew other places were paying much better, I wouldn't keep sucking it up working for much less pay and much less respect in the workplace.  If you personally wish to do it, keep at it hoss.  I'd personally choose to keep my self respect. 

If we assume your salary claims aren't BS, which they very well might be, then you're not earning more, you work more, there's a difference. You're teaching extra classes in the evening while another NET is chilling at home.
As public school teachers, we all get paid THE SAME! The teacher working at an international school getting 5-6mil a month because they have the qualifications and skillset you don't; those are the teachers who earn more.

I find it fascinating how you endlessly bitch about stagnant salaries while your qualifications have, likewise, been completely stagnant; an undergrad degree and no Korean skills after close to 20yrs in this country??? Yowzers!

I'd think carefully before lecturing others on not being able to read, you make more spelling mistakes than some of my students. Seriously, every one of your posts has a spelling mistake which is why I'm surprised that your MOE
selects you to do extra classes. Then again, after all these years, they probably see you as the human and pedagogical equivalent of a Bomb Game, not terribly: educational, impressive, useful or effective, but somewhat reliable, predictable
and familiar.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 08:04:35 pm by Aristocrat »


  • Lazio
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #84 on: September 13, 2021, 10:46:36 pm »
If you make much more than 3 mil or me, then you have no place in the conversation. 

You are right! Why would you need to hear those, that do something better than you?! That would be very unwise.


  • hangook77
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2021, 12:19:11 pm »
If we assume your salary claims aren't BS, which they very well might be, then you're not earning more, you work more, there's a difference. You're teaching extra classes in the evening while another NET is chilling at home.
As public school teachers, we all get paid THE SAME! The teacher working at an international school getting 5-6mil a month because they have the qualifications and skillset you don't; those are the teachers who earn more.

I find it fascinating how you endlessly bitch about stagnant salaries while your qualifications have, likewise, been completely stagnant; an undergrad degree and no Korean skills after close to 20yrs in this country??? Yowzers!

I'd think carefully before lecturing others on not being able to read, you make more spelling mistakes than some of my students. Seriously, every one of your posts has a spelling mistake which is why I'm surprised that your MOE
selects you to do extra classes. Then again, after all these years, they probably see you as the human and pedagogical equivalent of a Bomb Game, not terribly: educational, impressive, useful or effective, but somewhat reliable, predictable
and familiar.

Actually my salary would only drop by  slightly less than 100,000 won a month without the overtime this year.  Next year it would be a bit over 100 k a month.  So, housing, renewal bonus, salary, and other add ons due to the job do put me into the mid 3's total.  Overtime tips it to upper 3's.  I don't say this to brag.  Even I am annoyed at the principal that my salary has been the same for a few years.  I went from over 4 million in 2021 money with inflation factored in (what this salary would have equaled several years back) to this drop.  However, it has to fall a little further before I am out.  I still could not imagine making 2.1 to 2.3 and even with housing of 3 or 4 hundred K together.  Korea is too expensive nowadays for salaries not to increase.  I honestly can't understand how folks can live here and pay their student loans, save much money, etc.  It's okay for rich kids who can keep their money all in Korea, but long term it's no life, especially if they get married here and have a family.  Add on Seoul's real estate prices and it's really not worth it. 

And truthfully, I don't want my salary to fall anymore.  I'd like it to go up and I'd like to see others push back and demand their wages go up too.  When and if it goes too low, I will walk.  Corona keeps us all here for a year or two I guess.  But after that..... 

If I lost this job and were offered anything less than upper 2's (and not for a 10 plus hour day either), I'd just leave.  I wouldn't put up with it.  Let Korean employers and ed offices who want to be arrogant dicks go without us.  More folks should collectively walk out in a couple of years if nothing changes.  I can only imagine what 2.1 or even 2.5 will be worth 2 to 4 years from now.  How much more expensive will Korea be then?  You can either keep arguing with me or spend that time and energy coming up with an exit plan. 

And honestly with Seoul's BS housing prices, I'd want 7 or 8 million won a month without working 18 hours a day if I were going to get married and stay here on an F visa.  I think in the next few years, experienced teachers will need to be paid 4 to 5 million won a month if the living costs keep rising to have the same lifestyle that you could have had on 2.1 million won a month 12 to 15 years ago. 


  • OnNut81
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2021, 12:39:53 pm »
As Tyler pointed out, since we're including housing, and I do, we can finally do away with saying 2.1 as a starting salary.  So, 2.5 is the new agreed minimum?  That's not bad for a new arrival.  I am not sure how the renewal bonus would be included as salary since it's a one time thing.  I have never tried to pad my salary by including renewal bonus.  I include housing as my school has never even had the option for a teacher to take a school apartment.  They only add on to your monthly salary; and not the minimum fortunately.  They pay extra as they are not in the accommodation business.  They just want a teacher. 


  • hangook77
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2021, 01:16:01 pm »
As Tyler pointed out, since we're including housing, and I do, we can finally do away with saying 2.1 as a starting salary.  So, 2.5 is the new agreed minimum?  That's not bad for a new arrival.  I am not sure how the renewal bonus would be included as salary since it's a one time thing.  I have never tried to pad my salary by including renewal bonus.  I include housing as my school has never even had the option for a teacher to take a school apartment.  They only add on to your monthly salary; and not the minimum fortunately.  They pay extra as they are not in the accommodation business.  They just want a teacher. 

Except with inflation I actually made much more than this and it was probably close to what my salary had become in 2021.  That's what it was equal to.  It was a good deal as I could send home 1300 to 1400 US without having to be frugal at all.  I traveled to another place in Korea every weekend and ate out quite a bit all while doing this.  Korea's living costs were that cheap back then.  Your money went far and you didn't have to keep much here nor did you have to be a homebody and eat ramien to save any money.  A newbie to Korea is being ripped off plain and simple.  Not being frugal, not being a homebody, travelling somewhere each weekend around Korea and staying overnight, going out of Korea in summer, eating out a lot, you cannot tell me that you will save much money on that salary in 2021 let alone pay off your student loans beyond the minimum.  I was paying 560 a month as minimum payment when I got here.  (Though the 2008 exchange rate dropoff made it a real kick in the b@ll$ until about 2014.  Thankfully the rural EPIK payraises kicked in as they reajusted the pay rates due to being desperate for teachers in the provinces.  It still took a while to get back to those levels.  But when the exchange rate returned for Canadians - not Americans - and I hit the top level salary, I felt like I hit the jackpot for a time). 

Either way, a young person coming for 2.1 or 2.4 or 2.5 depending on the housing offered is not living the life I was back then.  A;so your salary deductions are more than they use to be.  So, take about 13 per cent off the pay and still pay 2 or 3 hundred in taxes at year end.  Leave yourself at least 900 to 1 million k.  So, 800 thousand won or maybe 700 if you are living somewhat like I did but with less travelling and less eating out but still some.

800 thousand won is 682.00 dollars US and 700 hundred thousand is 597.00 dollars US.  Just enough to pay your student loans and a bit more.  Considering I put 1000 to 1200 dollars a month on mine when I first came, yeah, it is a rip off now.  And I didn't have to be frugal at all.  I'd buy things like a laptop computer and other things too.  All this with having money in my pockets with lots of money leftover to throw at loans.  I will admit later on the exchange rate tank did cut that down somewhat until I got some raises to get back to where I was. 

The point is that a school paying 2.1 is like a minimum wage job in America where you can live at home with your folks.  If you can make a little more, it may even be more money in your pocket if you are repaying your student loans.  Either way, a 2.1 salary is a rotten deal compared to what I got when I first arrived and a lot of ground has been lost. 

Recruiters took what was once true about making a lot of money and kept repeating it over and over, even when it became untrue.  It's similar to how North Korea claims people in the South are starving and pawing through garbage to find enough food to eat.    It may have been true in the 1950;s shortly after the War, but hasn't beenn true in years.  Yet, they keep repeating what was once true even though it is now a lie.  Recruiter do the same thing with esl.  I had told a few newbies looking for work to ask for 2,5 or 2.6 minimum on some Facebook groups prior to corona and even that is less.  But anything under that will be a struggle and living quite frugally and poorly.  Maybe they ignored me but at least they had a chance to avoid bad conditions. 

Once corona is done, go to other countries and make more while living cheaply the way Korea use to be.  As for the rest of it, I don't object to including bonuses and other things as they are part of the pay and are taxed.  But, unless I am wrong I had heard SMOE got rid of the renewal allowance a few years ago just to be dicks.  (They pay less too.) 


Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2021, 02:46:26 pm »
it is interestingthat not more people did not get into the university system when they had the chance. in the late 90s, you could make it with just a BA (bachelors) and a few years of Hagwon experience, and many of us did.

suffice it to say that, when you have tenure, the benefits (financial and otherwise) vastly outweight any of the paltry sums listed in this thread! I won't discuss the figures (talking about money; so gaucho) but hindsight, is 20/20 I suppose.


  • tylerthegloob
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2021, 02:55:30 pm »
we're not all fossils you know
more gg more skill


  • OnNut81
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2021, 03:02:01 pm »

 I won't discuss the figures (talking about money; so gaucho) but hindsight, is 20/20 I suppose.

Psst!  A gaucho is a South American cowboy. The word you were looking for is gauche.  I wouldn't want people to think that the reason universities have tightened restrictions was because a lot of people with a couple of years of hakwan experience contaminated the pool back in the late 90s.  Also, you could still get into universities with just a B.A. a little over ten years ago at least.  I know a lot of university ESL teachers that make less than I do but have a much shorter work week with greater vacation.  I chose the middle ground.  Happy with my public school set up.  Not many of the ESL teachers at a uni get tenure. 


Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2021, 03:07:01 pm »
I love how hangook77 jiggers things to make his salary greater than what his actual salary is, but chooses not to apply any of those things to salaries at the low end of the spectrum.
"500,000 won housing? Yes that applies to me and my salary. What? No, it doesn't apply to the guy making less than me. I have to maintain my status after all."


  • waygo0k
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #92 on: September 14, 2021, 04:14:18 pm »
If you're including housing as payment, also remember that younger Koreans on average have "free" housing (aka still living with mum and dad).

Which takes us back to square one...with starting esl salaries being on par with Korean minimum wage (plus maybe 200k). It is also not uncommon for employers to provide housing for their Korean staff (even hagwons), particularly those who live and work in a different city from their hometown/province.

And for many teachers, the housing they're given isn't even worth 400-500k per month...a lot of those will be in the 200-300k range, especially for those outside Seoul/Gyeonggi.

I don't always agree with hangook77...but when it comes to esl salaries in Korea, I concur that employers have been taking the piss for close to a decade now.


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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #93 on: September 14, 2021, 04:19:20 pm »
it is interestingthat not more people did not get into the university system when they had the chance. in the late 90s, you could make it with just a BA (bachelors) and a few years of Hagwon experience, and many of us did.

suffice it to say that, when you have tenure, the benefits (financial and otherwise) vastly outweight any of the paltry sums listed in this thread! I won't discuss the figures (talking about money; so gaucho) but hindsight, is 20/20 I suppose.



"You know, they increased the housing allowance by 100,000 won per month at my university."



  • hangook77
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #94 on: September 15, 2021, 07:48:43 am »
If you're including housing as payment, also remember that younger Koreans on average have "free" housing (aka still living with mum and dad).

Which takes us back to square one...with starting esl salaries being on par with Korean minimum wage (plus maybe 200k). It is also not uncommon for employers to provide housing for their Korean staff (even hagwons), particularly those who live and work in a different city from their hometown/province.

And for many teachers, the housing they're given isn't even worth 400-500k per month...a lot of those will be in the 200-300k range, especially for those outside Seoul/Gyeonggi.

I don't always agree with hangook77...but when it comes to esl salaries in Korea, I concur that employers have been taking the piss for close to a decade now.

Thank you.  True dat, if you want decent housing much of the time, even with public schools, you must get your own.  I pay 520k rent and maintenance fees while getting 400 for rent allowance.  But some newer and much nicer 3 room villas (modern better built buildings) have seen their price hikes even out here in the provinces (IE  700K a month.)  Older ones are less but some with piss poor quality construction.  I'd hate to see prices in Seoul.  Though some of the country is slowly bringing on Seoul prices lately, it seems.  But, I have some space at least. 

I do know some schools won't pay key money, they don't out here.  So, what place they can get you may or may not be the best.  Nickle and diming it. 


Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #95 on: September 15, 2021, 10:57:18 am »
If you're including housing as payment, also remember that younger Koreans on average have "free" housing (aka still living with mum and dad).
Except the intrinsic value of those two things is different (though varies from person to person). Whether living with a Korean family as a homestay or in a dorm/bunkhouse or a one-room or some larger apartment, it varies based on one's interests.

I think most of us would NOT want to live with a Korean family (although a small minority might for culture/savings), hence their value is not comparable.


  • hangook77
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #96 on: September 15, 2021, 11:45:41 am »
Except the intrinsic value of those two things is different (though varies from person to person). Whether living with a Korean family as a homestay or in a dorm/bunkhouse or a one-room or some larger apartment, it varies based on one's interests.

I think most of us would NOT want to live with a Korean family (although a small minority might for culture/savings), hence their value is not comparable.

No, but young Koreans may want to live with THEIR family to make money or save it.  You can also find some 18 to 20 dollar an hour jobs nowadays and live at home with your parents in America or wherever for a bit saving way more money than you could here nowadays.  This is how much our purchasing power has dropped and how little respect NETS must have if they are payed just above Korean minimum wage.  Living with parents in USA and saving your salary means you prob could pay off a 40 or 50 K student loan in 3 years on that if you keep your expenses down with that pay now.  Here.  Paying the minimum means what 10 to 15 years to pay that sucker off?  Korea is BS nowadays and most younger folks, if they are smart will skip it and not listen to the recruiters lies.


Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #97 on: September 15, 2021, 12:22:27 pm »
No, but young Koreans may want to live with THEIR family to make money or save it.  You can also find some 18 to 20 dollar an hour jobs nowadays and live at home with your parents in America or wherever for a bit saving way more money than you could here nowadays.  This is how much our purchasing power has dropped and how little respect NETS must have if they are payed just above Korean minimum wage.  Living with parents in USA and saving your salary means you prob could pay off a 40 or 50 K student loan in 3 years on that if you keep your expenses down with that pay now.  Here.  Paying the minimum means what 10 to 15 years to pay that sucker off?  Korea is BS nowadays and most younger folks, if they are smart will skip it and not listen to the recruiters lies.

- If my parents and I knew my tuition would've costed something ludicrous like $50 000, then they would've pushed me to get a scholarship or made damn sure that the job I was going to get would take care of that loan within a year.

- If my dad knew I'd be going to South Korea to do a job where I'd be earning 2.4mil won a month, while having a 50k student loan, he'd call me a dumbass till the day I died.

- You got a degree from a university in a 1st world country, that 60% of young Koreans claim they'd emigrate to, only to leave that country for Korea to make little more than minimum wage. You had the opportunity to get a job in a 1st world country but you turned it down or didn't make the cut, despite growing up with all the amenities, luxuries and advantages said country provides... can you understand why some Koreans think you're a loser?

- A South African leaving to teach in South Korea automatically finds themselves in the top 5% of earners back home. If we save, it's pretty great bank. Our university tuitions are a fraction of the ones in Canada and the US and we're doing the same job you're doing.

Regarding salaries, South Korea has always had an ace up it's sleeve; they don't ask for much. You don't have to write long and incredibly detailed lesson plans each lesson, you don't have to keep records of your assessments, you don't have to deal with parents, you don't have to have a teaching license and most importantly, it doesn't matter if the kid you've been teaching for 4yrs still doesn't know his ABCs. They don't care! We're here as a facade. They don't pay much because they aren't asking for much.


Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #98 on: September 15, 2021, 01:17:28 pm »
No, but young Koreans may want to live with THEIR family to make money or save it. 
Some do, some don't.

Regardless, them living at home with their parents is NOT part of the benefits package, so it is meaningless to somehow include that as some sort of equivalency.


  • hangook77
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Re: Moving to China - A SERIOUS THREAD
« Reply #99 on: September 15, 2021, 01:25:34 pm »
Some do, some don't.

Regardless, them living at home with their parents is NOT part of the benefits package, so it is meaningless to somehow include that as some sort of equivalency.

It's not a benefit here either since they have to give it to you to let you live here along with the flight.  You can live with your folks in America and find a 20 dollar an hour job and make more than here nowadays.  Wages back home shot up and they stayed stagnant in Korea.  So, as a young person you will save more and pay off more student loans back home now rather than staying here.  Korea was a good deal 10, 15, and 20 years ago.  The past 3 to 5 years, it's gone to hell.