New rules for English education.

Excluding housing but with housing could never get to more than 2.9 or 3 mil total.

Ah, so changing what you said already?  That was fast.  Anyways, could you please link to where I said that?  Obviously I wouldn't have said 2.9 was the max when I've been at 3 for a few years, and I didn't think I was the top of the heap.  Always thought those Gangnam guys got a huge housing stipend.  Instead of repeating the same claim could you please just throw up the link? 

Not sure what BS you're on.  But, I am not upgrading skills to make the same pay.  Like a uni job which required a Bachelors and paid 2 million and now require a Masters and pays the same.  Yeah, you got spend time and money to make the same.  Most jobs here don't care if you have a masters or a bachelors.  So, go fill your boots and put the "sucker" stamp on your forehead. 

Uh, no... unlike you, I'm brave enough to take a risk of actually going to a different country and upgrading from ESL, this is my last year in Korea, I want a higher paying teaching job that involves more responsibility, actual teaching and working with a real curriculum which is why I'm finishing off my teaching license and doing a degree in sport science to leave the door open for further career opportunities should I get bored of teaching English.

Nobody here is making 2.1mil, you numbskull. Regardless, I don't claim to be better than someone making 2.1mil, if they're happy living a simple life, great! If I'm honest, I might've been just as content with 3mil a month if I didn't have a family to think about.

This year and last year it was because of COVID, next year it'll be because China shut down the ESL industry, year after that it'll be because you've got an itchy arse that doesn't permit you to sit on an airplane for more than 2hrs.

Get some ambition before you preach to others because we all see you as a boy, afraid of risk, change and completely complacent.

I'm not in gyeonggi.

Yes, but he is:

Haven't made less than 3 in years.

Which is why I asked:

Isn’t public school salary for those in Gyeonggi Province capped at 2.5? So without the housing allowance you’d be under 3, but with it, you’re over?

No answer means yes I guess.

I feel like those who write about making over 3 should note they are including the housing allowance in the figure.

Yes, but he is:

Which is why I asked:

Isn’t public school salary for those in Gyeonggi Province capped at 2.5? So without the housing allowance you’d be under 3, but with it, you’re over?

No answer means yes I guess.

I feel like those who write about making over 3 should note they are including the housing allowance in the figure.

Well, housing is the #1 expense for most people, 1/4 to 1/3 of their income.  Why shouldn't I include it in my compensation package?

It’s fine to include housing allowance when stating a salary, just note that you are when stating how far you are above 2.1 n00bs with provided housing who aren’t boosting their salary amount in that way.

Yes, but he is:

Which is why I asked:

Isn’t public school salary for those in Gyeonggi Province capped at 2.5? So without the housing allowance you’d be under 3, but with it, you’re over?

No answer means yes I guess.

I feel like those who write about making over 3 should note they are including the housing allowance in the figure.

I include the housing allowance as my school has never provided housing and teachers are paid a monthly salary that reflects that. 

Excluding housing but with housing could never get to more than 2.9 or 3 mil total.

Yes, you're just repeating the claim.  Can you please link to where I made that claim?  As usual, you're not backing anything up. 

A parent US citizen gets priority for their child even adult child, mr can't ever do anything  and nothing will ever change.  A simple websearch and even homeland security website will tell you that.  But you go right on doubting as you always do.  xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

Sure, an immigration lawyer explained this to my dad back in the day. 

"Note that filing Form I-130 only starts the immigration process for a U.S. citizen's son or daughter. Such a person will be considered a "preference relative" (unlike, for instance, the spouse or unmarried child under 21 of a U.S. citizen, who is an "immediate relative"). Preference relatives, unlike immediate relatives, face annual quotas on the number of visas (green cards) given out, and thus may have to wait years after approval of their I-130 for a visa to become available and to continue with their green card application."

Sounds like a real step up.  Get far back in line from the relatives from an impoverished third world country whose parents are also looking to bring them in.  On top of that, you referred to this "parent" as "some relatives" up until today.  I don't believe you. 

Sure, an immigration lawyer explained this to my dad back in the day. 

"Note that filing Form I-130 only starts the immigration process for a U.S. citizen's son or daughter. Such a person will be considered a "preference relative" (unlike, for instance, the spouse or unmarried child under 21 of a U.S. citizen, who is an "immediate relative"). Preference relatives, unlike immediate relatives, face annual quotas on the number of visas (green cards) given out, and thus may have to wait years after approval of their I-130 for a visa to become available and to continue with their green card application."

Sounds like a real step up.  Get far back in line from the relatives from an impoverished third world country whose parents are also looking to bring them in.  On top of that, you referred to this "parent" as "some relatives" up until today.  I don't believe you. 

You don't believe your own shadow. 

On top of that, you referred to this "parent" as "some relatives" up until today.  I don't believe you.

He spoke of step family before in the past… so a step parent means a link to the USA… but not as quick and sure of a path as would be the case for a biological parent. If a mother remarries and to a United States citizen, can that get her Canadian children in quick? Not sure.

He spoke of step family before in the past… so a step parent means a link to the USA… but not as quick and sure of a path as would be the case for a biological parent.

A biological parent isn't quick for an adult over 21.  It says it could take years just for the opportunity to come. 

"To be considered a "child" for visa purposes, a person must (in most cases) be under 21 years old. On and after the person's 21st birthday, U.S. immigration law calls the person an "adult son or daughter." Adult sons and daughters sometimes qualify for visas, but they do not have the same favored status as "children."

Stepchildren
A "stepchild"—someone whose natural mother or father later married someone else—is the "child" of the new spouse only if the stepchild had not reached the age of 18 when that new marriage occurred.

U.S. immigration does not consider someone over 21 a child.  We may consider Hangook77 a child, but in the eyes of U.S. immigration he is not considered one.  Even if he's being truthful about having a current step parent that is American.

As for Trudeau, getting the boot, it would be poetic and a beautiful thing. 

So a step family even slower? I guess he’ll be waiting a while then. ㅠ ㅠ Hopefully the Maritimes economy improves. Maybe if Justin Trudeau gets booted out.

Might be a good match for someone who finds their broccoli beef  and egg rolls appealing. 

Try their new almond crusted chicken.

Isn’t public school salary for those in Gyeonggi Province capped at 2.5? So without the housing allowance you’d be under 3, but with it, you’re over?

Never worked at a school with overtime?  Three out of the four public schools I've been at have had overtime.  My guaranteed base salary is 3.0.  My school does not offer housing so the stipend is obviously part of the compensation.  They don't ask how much rent I'm paying. 

Yep. Overtime opportunities are absolutely *everywhere*... ...but you have make it known that you're looking for them. Networking can make you a fair bit of extra money, even here in EPIK.

its mostly because you express it in much the same way, haha. while i'm sure everyone would like to see higher pay, the biggest problem a lot of us have with hangook specifically is that he doesnt acknowledge other perspectives and just assumes that everyone working for 2.1 is dumb. and while sure, it isnt great pay for a lot of people, if youre just coming here to burn a couple years or travel a little bit or whatever its enough. those people arent stupid for taking the job, they just have different priorities and needs than hangook and other people who are in it for the long run.



people weren't paid more, the money was just worth more - worth less now due to inflation, etc. also, as a country becomes more and more developed and the quality of life rises, living expenses naturally rise too. it isnt a matter of getting paid less than back then, its that the pay hasnt been raised to reflect the rate of inflation.

also, everything was back in the old days... well, price-wise that is, maybe not quality-of-life-wise haha. but the days when you could work a factory job and have a house and car and a couple of kids you could afford to send off to college and a nice retirement package on top of all that are long gone... it takes a bit more finesse to really make that middle class lifestyle now.



if you intend on staying here for a while you should definitely look into getting further qualifications and branching out into better jobs. personally im just sticking around until im actually able to travel.

I understand that for the majority working in this industry making a bit of extra money for traveling and some gap years adventures is all they are here for and honestly there is nothing wrong with that.
I don't know if he assumes that everyone is working for 2.1 mill ( this is of course not true! As there are many veteran teachers who have been here for over 5 years making more), but he is right that the majority of the newbies comming in are making 2.1, which is enough for those younger graduates here for the few years of travel. For me though the issue is more about the lack of advancement opportunities and increases in pay beyond the 3.0 mill for those who are here longer term on F visas or want to settle down here and continue to work in the public school system ( not go international schools or buy their own Hagwon). Absolutely the short term teachers and longer term ones would have different priorities.


Well, the money being worth more kind of equals being paid more ... and the base pay is adjusted every year for Korean teachers to account for inflation, as I mentioned in other posts too, that even the bus drivers and the street sweepers get their salaries bumped up to account for inflation. Not a single bus driver starts with 1.5 mill like they did back in the early 2000's, they start from the upper to 2.0 mill or lower 3.0 mill because that is the basic livable wage. That's where I find things a bit unfair. As EPIK workers, the NETS are contracted as government workers, so the base/ starting pay should be adjusted to take inflation into consideration. When it comes to Hakwons... well it's the free market based on supply and demand, nothing we can do if the market is saturated and wages are kept low.

Yes, I am intending to stay for at least 5 years or more.... I am definitely looking into online programs to get a US teaching license and a Masters degree (sometime in the future). I just need to be extra careful to make sure the education I invest in can transferable if/ when I choose to go back home. I was not a public school teacher, but I  did a 1 year  graduate certificate in "TESOL" , after undergrad, which allowed me to work with adults. And I did work at my university teaching English to international students at a learning center, taught an academic college prep course, and immigrant and refugee women at a community centre through the government for about 3 years before coming over here.

I know that getting a graduate degree from a Korean University is useless back in North America. The only thing to study at a Korean uni would be their Korean language classes to get better at Korean and be able to function better in society, I guess.
This is probably better for another forum.. but if any one has any good advice on furthering credentials, programs .. your advice would be much appreciated.

I understand that for the majority working in this industry making a bit of extra money for traveling and some gap years adventures is all they are here for and honestly there is nothing wrong with that.
I don't know if he assumes that everyone is working for 2.1 mill ( this is of course not true! As there are many veteran teachers who have been here for over 5 years making more), but he is right that the majority of the newbies comming in are making 2.1, which is enough for those younger graduates here for the few years of travel. For me though the issue is more about the lack of advancement opportunities and increases in pay beyond the 3.0 mill for those who are here longer term on F visas or want to settle down here and continue to work in the public school system ( not go international schools or buy their own Hagwon). Absolutely the short term teachers and longer term ones would have different priorities.


Well, the money being worth more kind of equals being paid more ... and the base pay is adjusted every year for Korean teachers to account for inflation, as I mentioned in other posts too, that even the bus drivers and the street sweepers get their salaries bumped up to account for inflation. Not a single bus driver starts with 1.5 mill like they did back in the early 2000's, they start from the upper to 2.0 mill or lower 3.0 mill because that is the basic livable wage. That's where I find things a bit unfair. As EPIK workers, the NETS are contracted as government workers, so the base/ starting pay should be adjusted to take inflation into consideration. When it comes to Hakwons... well it's the free market based on supply and demand, nothing we can do if the market is saturated and wages are kept low.

Yes, I am intending to stay for at least 5 years or more.... I am definitely looking into online programs to get a US teaching license and a Masters degree (sometime in the future). I just need to be extra careful to make sure the education I invest in can transferable if/ when I choose to go back home. I was not a public school teacher, but I  did a 1 year  graduate certificate in "TESOL" , after undergrad, which allowed me to work with adults. And I did work at my university teaching English to international students at a learning center, taught an academic college prep course, and immigrant and refugee women at a community centre through the government for about 3 years before coming over here.

I know that getting a graduate degree from a Korean University is useless back in North America. The only thing to study at a Korean uni would be their Korean language classes to get better at Korean and be able to function better in society, I guess.
This is probably better for another forum.. but if any one has any good advice on furthering credentials, programs .. your advice would be much appreciated.

I think we're all on the same page when it comes to the fact we agree that there is a ceiling that should be raised when it comes to public school teachers.  The pay scale has remained the same for far too long. But, there are also plenty of young teachers happy to come in on the ground level and some school whose budget requires they accept those teachers. That has an influence on wages, obviously.  Your school does have a discretionary budget that they can give you a raise with (limited times) if they wish. 

As for more info on accreditation , there was recently a thread on getting certified to teach.  You'd have to search but it had some pretty recent and relevant info for you. 

Yes, you're just repeating the claim.  Can you please link to where I made that claim?  As usual, you're not backing anything up. 

Back up what?  I gave the copy of last years taxes to immigration.  I had to get it printed off at the ed office with the red stamp on it.  It said I made 43 million last year including everything.  Should I not believe what the form said or that it's lying? 

Rural nets, your top pay is 2.7 plus 100k for rural plus 150k for multiple schools?  400K for housing and 2 million renewal allowance?  Then if you get overtime, which is not as readily available like in the past.  The POE are a bunch of rule nazis.  I use to be able to teach night classes at city hall, some other public officials because it was all the government.  But now they won't allow it.  I get the overtime classes at the city ed office for special students and it pays well.  But only 3 or 4 of us are able to take advantage of it.  Most schools have their own after school teachers and don't ask us to do those classes. 

Anyways, it brought my salary up to what it was.  But rural top level nets are the exception.  If you work at a lower level like level 2 or 3 or even top level in many cities and go to one school, the pay hasn't been good there for at least 4 or 5 years.  Before that I think it was okay.  Inflation came and got you.  It's coming for the provincial 1 plus nets but hasn't taken me out yet.  But, I do see it on the radar. 

Then, I pointed out what I made, after you claimed no one could earn more than 2.5 mil max.

This claim.  I think you're being purposefully obtuse here because you are unable to back up the claim that I said no one could earn more than 2.5 max.  That's what you said yesterday and I asked you to back that up.  Now, you're zipping off in a different direction.  I'm guessing because you've cottoned on to the fact it was LI that made that claim and not me, but you don't want to acknowledge your mistake. 

As for new nets, they can longer pay of their thousands of dollars in student loans anymore.  2.1 back in the day (and 3 million in today's money) was enough to let you get those bad boys paid off, plus have money to travel and still go out and drink or do whatever.  Nowadays, not so much.  I honestly can't see how can pay on your student loans beyond the minimum (assuming 5 or 6 hundred bucks a month), but not accelerating the payment.  Say you owe 40 or 60 grand and have to pay 5 or 6 hundred bucks a month.  No more paying 12 or 13 hundred dollars a month to get the loan paid off faster.  Then paying the minimum once or twice a year so you can travel on a budget.  No longer possible to do both.  Most teachers do have loans.  A few rich kids don't. they can obviously afford to work for peanuts.  But even if they stay too long, they will get trapped too.  You could easily save 1400 or 1500 USD a month depending on how frugal you are versus 500 or 600 USD a month today.  (Based on 2.1 million.  It goes up a bit if you are making a bit more than this of course but still nothing great.)  1500 a month with inflation in today's money would 2000 to 2500 USD a month saved or put towards your student loans each month.  Well, 2500 a month is better than 500 a month.  As the cost of living continues to soar in Korea, that 500 USD a month will shrink more.  Soon it will be 100 or 200 USD a month saved or nothing. 

It works for me, but if you are a young person researching this and you want to save money or pay off your student loans seriously reconsider coming here.  (Ignore the trolls on here.)  The recruiters will use outdated lies to get you here.  It was true years ago you could make a lot of money here, it is no longer true due to salaries staying the same while the cost of living (inflation) has soared.  Recruiters keep repeating it though so you'll come and they will get their commission bonus from the school or academy.  They care nothing about you.  The truth is Japan sunk long ago, Taiwan is peanuts, and Korea is slipping off the edge.  China is the best paying nowadays (with cheap cost of living).  Vietnam is the next up and comer.  Wages still run the range from low to high though cost of living is cheap.  If you have to pay your own apartment, try to get 2000 USD salary.  It doesn't look much on paper, but the cost is so cheap.  Plus as a bonus, outside the major city cores, you as a foreigner will still be a novelty.  China in many places too.  (Korea use to be like this outside of Seoul, but not anymore.)

I will say, Koreans are mostly nice as a people and I do like them.  Of course some annoying habits sometimes, but over all good.  It is certainty easy to find modern products and international restaurants.  But the excitement of the place being different and risky is long gone.  Pollution is only marginally better than some parts of China (especially the middle and the south).  There are things to like here.  But the place will not get you further ahead financially speaking.  If you don't care about money, it doesn't mean your future or student loans will stop caring about you.  Once covid clears up over the next year, 2022, look to China and Vietnam.  You can always do a gap year in Korea later on after you've paid things off or saved up enough.