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  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4548

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2021, 12:58:53 pm »
You don't know that. No one knows what would have happened if Trump had been in charge. I do think the Taliban might have been a bit slower and cautious because Trump is unpredictable but that's no guarantee. Maybe they still would have ran in, just been more ready to run back out in case Trump decided to "bomb the shit out of them". Who knows?

Anyone who is 100% convinced a hypothetical would have happened the way they think it would have is an idiot

Speak for yourself.  Any smart person knows that Trump is a very different person than Biden and he doesn't suffer slights lightly.  He did bomb the shit out of ISIS like he said he would,  He had no fear or anyone. 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4548

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2021, 12:59:29 pm »
History of Afghanistan documentary.  I don't always like DW but this one is intersting.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7e6tejlTNw


  • tylerthegloob
  • The Legend

    • 2946

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #82 on: August 18, 2021, 01:02:07 pm »
Speak for yourself.  Any smart person knows that Trump is a very different person than Biden and he doesn't suffer slights lightly.  He did bomb the shit out of ISIS like he said he would,  He had no fear or anyone. 

its like listening to a child talk about how his dad could beat up your dad
more gg more skill


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4548

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #83 on: August 18, 2021, 01:05:34 pm »
its like listening to a child talk about how his dad could beat up your dad

So ISIS is still running things in Iraq and Syria?  Trump didn't beat them down to size?  Facts matter.  He did what he said he would do. 


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1717

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2021, 01:26:46 pm »

There are more ways to fight a war than dropping
bombs all over the place. 

Yep, it's called the China way. Take over with serious investment in infrastructure and buying everything you can possibly buy, especially mineral and mining rights. Slap up a small airport and container port you swear are for commercial purposes for the icing on the cake.

It works. Bombs don't. You cannot bomb an ideology out of existence. You can buy your way in.


Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2021, 01:58:03 pm »
Speak for yourself.  Any smart person knows that Trump is a very different person than Biden and he doesn't suffer slights lightly.  He did bomb the shit out of ISIS like he said he would,  He had no fear or anyone. 
Actually one of Trump's characteristics is to be incredibly flexible with insults. If you insult him and trash him, he'll trash you. But if you suddenly change your tune and talk friendly and make a deal, he'll reciprocate.

He didn't "bomb the shit" out of ISIS to any great degree relative to previous administrations. About his only big act was taking out Suleimani. The rest of the time he blustered but didn't do much. Which is actually one of the good things he did- be unpredictable. But he was not "fearless". If presented with genuine reasons not to do something or reasons that it could go wrong, he actually did hedge his bets and go in a different direction on many occasions.

You're looking at Cartoon Trump that is just a reverse of the narrative the MSM created about him. Not looking at what he really did.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5242

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2021, 08:42:01 pm »
yes
Yes, it appears they had fair warning from the intelligence community (which some on here persistently slam). But Biden was not to be deterred.


  • dandred
  • Super Waygook

    • 268

    • March 28, 2012, 11:24:32 am
    • Bucheon
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2021, 09:49:21 pm »
20 years teaching experience. CELTA, DELTA, MA TESOL, PhD slave  / on hold. Thank you.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 3022

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2021, 09:54:41 pm »
Actually one of Trump's characteristics is to be incredibly flexible with insults. If you insult him and trash him, he'll trash you. But if you suddenly change your tune and talk friendly and make a deal, he'll reciprocate.

He didn't "bomb the shit" out of ISIS to any great degree relative to previous administrations. About his only big act was taking out Suleimani. The rest of the time he blustered but didn't do much. Which is actually one of the good things he did- be unpredictable.


Ah, yes, being vindictive, capricious and having no moral compass is definitely the way to lead the free world.  You are pathetic.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4548

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2021, 07:37:07 am »
RNC delete webpage celebrating Trump's deal with the Taliban.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/rnc-trump-kabul-taliban-deal-b1903364.html

Never Trumper sell outs.  RINOs.  Either way the Taliban wasn't scared of Biden and stormed right in.  They would have held off until everyone left under Trump.  If they went back on their word so would Trump. 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4548

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #90 on: August 19, 2021, 07:38:34 am »
Actually one of Trump's characteristics is to be incredibly flexible with insults. If you insult him and trash him, he'll trash you. But if you suddenly change your tune and talk friendly and make a deal, he'll reciprocate.

He didn't "bomb the shit" out of ISIS to any great degree relative to previous administrations. About his only big act was taking out Suleimani. The rest of the time he blustered but didn't do much. Which is actually one of the good things he did- be unpredictable. But he was not "fearless". If presented with genuine reasons not to do something or reasons that it could go wrong, he actually did hedge his bets and go in a different direction on many occasions.

You're looking at Cartoon Trump that is just a reverse of the narrative the MSM created about him. Not looking at what he really did.

Actually, with Obama in charge, ISIS ran free and nothing was done about it.  You weren't even allowed to call it terrorism.  Trump bombed the shit out of them and ISIS scattered.  Gone and on the run now.  I guess you're a RINO too.


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 629

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #91 on: August 19, 2021, 07:54:23 am »
Actually, with Obama in charge, ISIS ran free and nothing was done about it. You weren't even allowed to call it terrorism.  Trump bombed the shit out of them and ISIS scattered.  Gone and on the run now.  I guess you're a RINO too.

Who stopped you from calling it terrorism?


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1855

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #92 on: August 19, 2021, 07:59:33 am »
its like listening to a child talk about how his dad could beat up your dad

im still disappointed we didnt get to see the trump/biden wrestling match, or at least a pushup contest


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #93 on: August 19, 2021, 08:11:37 am »
Actually, with Obama in charge, ISIS ran free and nothing was done about it.
During Mr. Obama's tenure, the primary threat was Al Qaeda, which his administration took very seriously. Unfortunately, when that organization was decapitated, it left a power vacuum that ISIS filled. During that time, America's focus had shifted towards Yemen which was busy cranking out extremists.

In retrospect, yes, it would've been nice to have worked on ISIS a bit during the 2000s, but I suspect that even if the American military had successfully headed off that emerging threat, a new one would've appeared the moment American presence withdrew... as is happening now.

   The problem in the middle-east can't be solved with military action, or at least, not with the kind of military action that the US allows itself to engage in. The issue is systemic in that the regions propensity towards extremism is fueled by the perceived hostility of the outside world. As Lichtenstein pointed out, I think that China's soft power approach might be the best one: spend money, establish infrastructure, manufacture dependency, and buy out prospective leaders.  ...although I think even that approach is going to be a very hard sell in Afghanistan.

im still disappointed we didnt get to see the trump/biden wrestling match, or at least a pushup contest
I'm envisioning a WWF style cage match, their bodies glistening with tanning spray and baby oil as they snarl insult as one another, their sequined American flag speedos glittering under the spot lights as they launch themselves off the ropes to assault each other with brutal elbow drops and flying stomps. A pair of sunglasses, the left lens cracked, spins away to the edge of the canvas, coming to rest beside an orange toupe that rustles gently from the synchronous exhalations of a hundred thousand screaming spectators: "Fight, fight fight fight fight fight fight ..."


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4548

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #94 on: August 19, 2021, 12:03:06 pm »
During Mr. Obama's tenure, the primary threat was Al Qaeda, which his administration took very seriously. Unfortunately, when that organization was decapitated, it left a power vacuum that ISIS filled. During that time, America's focus had shifted towards Yemen which was busy cranking out extremists.

In retrospect, yes, it would've been nice to have worked on ISIS a bit during the 2000s, but I suspect that even if the American military had successfully headed off that emerging threat, a new one would've appeared the moment American presence withdrew... as is happening now.

   The problem in the middle-east can't be solved with military action, or at least, not with the kind of military action that the US allows itself to engage in. The issue is systemic in that the regions propensity towards extremism is fueled by the perceived hostility of the outside world. As Lichtenstein pointed out, I think that China's soft power approach might be the best one: spend money, establish infrastructure, manufacture dependency, and buy out prospective leaders.  ...although I think even that approach is going to be a very hard sell in Afghanistan.
I'm envisioning a WWF style cage match, their bodies glistening with tanning spray and baby oil as they snarl insult as one another, their sequined American flag speedos glittering under the spot lights as they launch themselves off the ropes to assault each other with brutal elbow drops and flying stomps. A pair of sunglasses, the left lens cracked, spins away to the edge of the canvas, coming to rest beside an orange toupe that rustles gently from the synchronous exhalations of a hundred thousand screaming spectators: "Fight, fight fight fight fight fight fight ..."


ISIS began in 2014 and Obama did very little beyond a few bombings.  They got totally decapitated when Trump gave the generals the green light to do what they needed to do.  He was willing to delegate authority and tell them to do what they needed to do.  They didn't have to be all politically correct like they did during Obama's time.  ISIS faded away.  There are a few scattered pockets of them around but they are not the threat they were.  The Taliban may have eventually taken over under Trump, but if he told them to stay out of Kabul for the time being or get the shit bombed out them, they would have complied.  They didn't fear Biden and saw him for the pu$$!ㅌ he was.  There was no orderly transition or anything controlled.  Biden was quite sloppy.  The fact is Trump's machoness wouldn't have put up with the disrespect and he wouldn't have been begging the Taliban not to harm Americans departing.  They would have known not to. 


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2811

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #95 on: August 19, 2021, 12:11:59 pm »
Trump caved to the Taliban when trying to get his "peace deal" done. He was drawing down US forces and agreed to a complete withdrawal of all forces by the spring of this year. He practically handed the keys of Afghanistan to the Taliban.

Trump needed Russia's permission to engage ISIS in Syria so he wasn't "bombing the shit" out of them. He needed Putin's permission first for action in Syria.

Iraq? Pretty sure most of the action against ISIS was done by Iraqi Special Forces, Iraqi militias and Kurdish Peshmerga forces. They cleared ISIS out street by street in close combat fighting without "bombing the shit" out of them because they didn't want to inflict civilian casualties. They may have had US artillery support but not carpet bombing like the US did against the Taliban decades ago.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 01:58:01 pm by Savant »


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4548

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #96 on: August 19, 2021, 12:32:28 pm »
Trump caved to the Taliban when trying to get his "peace deal" done. He was drawing down US forces and agreed to a complete withdrawal of all forces by the spring of this year. He practically handed the keys of Afghanistan to the Taliban.

Trump needed Russia's permission to engage ISIS in Syria so he wasn't "bombing the shit" out of them. He needed Putin's permission first for action in Syria.

Iraq? Pretty sure most of the action against ISIS was done by Iraqi Special Forces and Kurdish Peshmerga forces. They cleared ISIS out street by street in close combat fighting without "bombing the shit" out of them because they didn't want to inflict civilian casualties. They may have had US artillery support but not carpet bombing like the US did against the Taliban decades ago.

So ISIS is still running Syria then?  Yeah, he did scatter them.  He didn't need Putin's permission.  But he did tell Putin to move his soldiers away from an area before he hit it.  Putin wasn't happy, but Trump did it anyways.  Honestly some of you are so delusional with the Trump Derangement Syndrome that you make any excuse possible.  ISIS was running rampant over the middle east until Trump got in.  Women were getting raped and killed.  Nothing was being done about it.  Obama did very little.  He wouldn't even use the word terrorism.  He was largely ineffective.  I remember when he bribed Iran with planeloads of money.  The hostages were only released once the last planeload of money arrived.  Total wimp. 

Also with Ukraine, folks defending their country got blankets from Obama and nothing else.  He was afraid of offending Putin.  Trump gave them guns and rockets to protect themselves.  Trump was against the Russian pipeline to Germany.  Biden gave approval for it.  Biden and Obama were Putin's real bitches. 

https://www.ft.com/content/22555df1-0b88-4d46-8287-9e0c8f03cc6a

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/12/20/trump-administration-approves-lethal-arms-sales-to-ukraine/



Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #97 on: August 19, 2021, 01:39:55 pm »
Ah, yes, being vindictive, capricious and having no moral compass is definitely the way to lead the free world.  You are pathetic.
The "Ah, yes," tell for misstating someone's position.

Quote
Actually one of Trump's characteristics is to be incredibly flexible with insults. If you insult him and trash him, he'll trash you. But if you suddenly change your tune and talk friendly and make a deal, he'll reciprocate.
This is called reciprocity- it matches the tone of the person. It also means he is willing to let go of an insult, rivalry, or grudge.

Are you saying that is a bad thing?

Quote
He didn't "bomb the shit" out of ISIS to any great degree relative to previous administrations. About his only big act was taking out Suleimani. The rest of the time he blustered but didn't do much. Which is actually one of the good things he did- be unpredictable.
Yes, when engaging in MILITARY confrontation or near-violent power struggles against a hostile party, unpredictability is often an asset if your goal is to prevent conflict.

Neville Chamberlain was a moral man. Stalin was a brute. One enabled the Nazis, the other enabled them, then annihilated  them.  Jimmy Carter was nice. So was Herbert Hoover. FDR was a quasi-dictator who violated the Civil Rights of hundreds of thousands of Americans. JFK sexually harassed women and navigated a nuclear crisis in part because he knew to keep people like Dean Acheson and LeMay in his pocket to scare the Soviets while using go-betweens to negotiate. Lincoln would speak lofty words and then let people like Benjamin Butler do what they pleased and would have no problem appointing a "liar and a braggart" like John Pope to lead his army. Nixon was a scumbag who gave us the EPA, brought China into the global system, the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, Expansion of Social Security and Medicare, OSHA, Consumer Protection, 18 years for voting age, etc. and he was a lying, racist, scumbag.

Other rulers have been benevolent and kind and ended up with their heads on pikes, their family tortured and mutilated and their citizens raped and murdered. George W. Bush meant well and blundered us into Iraq. Obama said pretty words and waged war across the Middle East.

Where exactly is this great morality you claim?


Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #98 on: August 19, 2021, 01:42:39 pm »
Actually, with Obama in charge, ISIS ran free and nothing was done about it.  You weren't even allowed to call it terrorism.  Trump bombed the shit out of them and ISIS scattered.  Gone and on the run now.  I guess you're a RINO too.

Quote
Since 2015, ISIL lost territory in Iraq and Syria, including Tikrit in March and April 2015, Baiji in October, Sinjar in November 2015, Ramadi in December 2015,Fallujah in June 2016
Other than ISIS losing major cities in Anbar and the North, you're totally right!


Re: I agree with Biden and the Afghan pullout.
« Reply #99 on: August 19, 2021, 01:44:18 pm »
They got totally decapitated when Trump gave the generals the green light to do what they needed to do.  He was willing to delegate authority and tell them to do what they needed to do.
Please tell us what Trump told the generals to do and what they did. And be specific.

Also, are these the same generals that Trump would later trash or would trash Trump or are being trashed for Afghanistan?

Obama's administration let ISIS get a little to big, that's true. They also did some big work in cleaning up the mess. Trump did a competent job in finishing it off. A lot of it is sort of similar to Trump getting the ball rolling with Operation Warp Speed and Biden continuing that program and ensuring bountiful supplies of the vaccine for Americans such that the problem isn't distribution but demand.

Imagine that, politicians of both parties continuing the work of their predecessors and doing good work with it.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 01:47:17 pm by Mr.DeMartino »