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  • Waygook Lord

    • 7638

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #120 on: August 22, 2021, 02:18:34 am »
Government stimulus will boost an economy temporarily. But the national debt will grow. Trumpís tax cuts for the wealthy boosted the economy while he was in office, but added trillions to deficits. Bidenís massive spending gives a short term boost, too. Itís like buying stuff on a credit card.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5920

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #121 on: August 22, 2021, 04:47:07 am »
Government stimulus will boost an economy temporarily. But the national debt will grow. Trumpís tax cuts for the wealthy boosted the economy while he was in office, but added trillions to deficits. Bidenís massive spending gives a short term boost, too. Itís like buying stuff on a credit card.
No it's not. You don't understand government spending.  https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-04/federal-deficits-don-t-work-like-credit-cards

trump's tax cuts didn't give the economy much of a boost because the rich stashed the cash and the corporations bought back stock instead of spending the money on expansion, employees and R&D.


  • Adel
  • The Legend

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    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
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Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #122 on: August 22, 2021, 04:57:22 am »
Government stimulus will boost an economy temporarily. But the national debt will grow. Trumpís tax cuts for the wealthy boosted the economy while he was in office, but added trillions to deficits. Bidenís massive spending gives a short term boost, too. Itís like buying stuff on a credit card.

Perhaps you could look up John Maynard Keynes and read his "The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money" then put some hours into coursework on concepts like 'aggregate demand' and the 'multiplier effect' before providing us with any advice on this one.  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 05:04:38 am by Adel »


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7638

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #123 on: August 22, 2021, 05:17:50 am »
Are you claiming ballooning national debt isn't bad? It is. Everything's a tradeoff. It's about choosing between options that both have pros and cons. The poster above me proclaimed me wrong, posting an opinion piece as evidence. Looks like a similar situation here.


  • Adel
  • The Legend

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    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
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Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #124 on: August 22, 2021, 05:28:57 am »
The poster above me proclaimed me wrong, posting an opinion piece as evidence. Looks like a similar situation here.
Will a least he provided some evidence to support his opinion unlike yourself but please don't think of this as a cue for another Stossel or Maher video.  :sad:
Nonetheless, the potential pitfalls of overstimulating an economy that has a fiat currency doesn't concern me so much, as a property owner and collector of rent.  Its also kind of handy for my investment portfolio too.
I'd be interested in why it concerns you so much though. But please no more of those god awful videos.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 05:44:57 am by Adel »


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7638

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #125 on: August 22, 2021, 05:51:03 am »
Debt's bad for the future.

I'm being roasted for using the credit card analogy, but here's Obama saying the same thing: [3:42]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmjkEM3AJ1Q


  • Adel
  • The Legend

    • 2142

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
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Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #126 on: August 22, 2021, 05:53:08 am »


What aspect of your future are you particularly concerned about?
You shouldn't need to consult with Stossel on that one should you?
I'd appreciate some independent thought as, I'm sure, others would.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 06:00:54 am by Adel »


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7638

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #127 on: August 22, 2021, 06:00:29 am »
Believe it or not I care about others who are not me. It's not right to get benefits that others will have to pay for.


  • Adel
  • The Legend

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    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
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Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #128 on: August 22, 2021, 06:02:20 am »
Believe it or not I care about others who are not me. It's not right to get benefits that others will have to pay for.
Ok, what aspect of other peoples' future are you particularly concerned about? I'd appreciate some independent thought as, I'm sure, others would. In fact, I reckon even Stossel would appreciate some independent thought from you for a change.
Does this concern for public benefits extend to funding for government funded education and a police force. Or do you believe those services should only be for people who can afford to pay for them? Does your 'care' extend to those with an inability to pay for it? It would be odd given your current employment circumstances wouldn't it?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 06:48:36 am by Adel »


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7638

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #129 on: August 22, 2021, 06:53:15 am »
Balanced budgets are good. They can be achieved by reducing spending or increasing taxes. Spending money not there and letting someone else in the future deal with the debt is irresponsible and immoral. It's kicking the can down the road.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7638

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #130 on: August 22, 2021, 07:22:27 am »
source? (other than a bill maher video)

"One consistent theme weíre seeing with virtually every patient thatís hospitalized, virtually every patient that has died in the hospital, is obesity,Ē Midland Memorial Hospital CEO Russell Meyers said. ďPatients who are overweight are at a much higher risk of hospitalization and death from this disease.Ē

https://www.yourbasin.com/news/mmh-obesity-playing-a-role-in-covid-19-complications-deaths/

When asked for an explanation for why weight matters in the fight against coronavirus, Chief Medical Officer Dr. Larry Wilson said there is something called an H2 receptor in the body that the virus binds to. He explained people with obesity tend to have a higher number of these receptors, which allows more of the virus to attack the body. Additionally, the virus puts extreme stress on the respiratory system.

ďJust by virtue of being overweight, breathing is not as good as that in people who are not overweight,Ē Wilson said.


Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #131 on: August 22, 2021, 09:32:47 am »
Again, NOTHING is preventing anyone from going to H&M in Myeongdong. The streets look empty because fewer people want to go out.
Well, other than 14 day quarantines restricting international travel. But aside from that minor detail...

You know Myeongdong's business is driven by international tourism, right? Then you add in pressure from domestic employers where if an employee gets infected in some sort of public place, they will get blamed and well...

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Again, I'm not denying that some businesses have been badly and unfairly impacted by the coronavirus, and that government restrictions have played a major or minor role in this. But I'm also pretty sure that a lot of economic strife that would have occurred regardless is going to get wrapped up into the consequences of the pandemic.

Your story was anecdote. The data shows that small businesses have been devastated and the rate of business failure is higher than pre-pandemic.

When businesses see sales dip 75% with the imposition of social distancing measures, yes, it's because of those government measures. These restaurants can see their profits increase and decrease as social distancing measures become more or less strict.

Face it: It's because of these rules that small businesses are getting devastated. This is going to have severe long-term impacts.

There's no warm, fuzzy, magic, sensible solution where everyone does fine like in movies and TV. You pull at one thread, it unravels a whole bunch of others. In another country, these measures might not have been as bad, but in one like Korea where there is so much late-night, restaurant, and bar/kareoke-centered social activity, with most of those places being individually owned, not corporate, it is not good.

This is why you can't just "listen to the scientists" because they aren't thinking about the situation as a whole. At least go with public health people who understand economic impacts in relation to health outcomes.


Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #132 on: August 22, 2021, 09:47:26 am »
You've got it backwards. The export growth feeds the domestic economy.
If this is true, why hasn't the export growth translated into sales increases, rather than a 75% drop in sales?

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"would likely be around" is a tell that you don't have proof for your assertions.
I didn't want to sit and do the math. But fine, I'll take the time and do it now. The problem is that there isn't any data on how many workers died. There are deaths by age, but the question is, are those who died in "working age" in fact, all workers? Or is there the chance that many of them could have had health problems that made them less likely to be employed (or under-employed). Regardless a 5mph change in speed limit is linked to about a 4-7% increase in fatalities.

Also, the death rate for Coronavirus in people under fifty is incredibly small.

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"South Korea posted a current account surplus of US$7.06 billion in January. The Bank of Korea announced on March 9 that South Korea posted a current account surplus of US$7.06 billion in January this year whereas the surplus stood at US$0.58 billion in January 2020."

I think that would keep a lot of small businesses afloat.
Uhm, can you do math? Or are you too stupid to even do a basic equation?

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I have a question for you. What's your plan for all the orphans you would create?
What orhpans? The death rate is overwhelmingly confined to the elderly. Do you not know the death rate for people under 50 when it comes to Corona?

We create orphans by people carrying their phones into their cars and not mandating that they be tethered to the car and forced to turn off like some sort of breathalyzer car starter. We create orphans with a 70mph speed limit. We create orphans by not forcibly regulating calorie and sugar consumption. We create orphans with legal alcohol.


Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #133 on: August 22, 2021, 09:53:27 am »
"South Korea posted a current account surplus of US$7.06 billion in January. The Bank of Korea announced on March 9 that South Korea posted a current account surplus of US$7.06 billion in January this year whereas the surplus stood at US$0.58 billion in January 2020."

I think that would keep a lot of small businesses afloat.

I'd just like to post this again, to show everyone gogators! brain works and how deficient it is. Dude thought this was a great point. He also didn't bother to do the math before posting.

And these are the people who think we should have lockdowns and the economic impacts won't be a problem. Ones who can't even do basic math.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7638

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #134 on: August 22, 2021, 05:42:26 pm »
Restaurants might also think about introducing the custom of tipping:

Please, no!

That's one of the worst things of the USA.

And one of the best things about Korea.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5920

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #135 on: August 22, 2021, 07:13:55 pm »
Believe it or not I care about others who are not me. It's not right to get benefits that others will have to pay for.
Who pays your salary?


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7638

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #136 on: August 22, 2021, 07:17:37 pm »
The Korean government. Also, I pay taxes to the government. But what does that have to do with wanting balanced budgets? People in the future should not get a bill for benefits being given now.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5920

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #137 on: August 22, 2021, 07:38:51 pm »
If this is true, why hasn't the export growth translated into sales increases, rather than a 75% drop in sales?
I didn't want to sit and do the math. But fine, I'll take the time and do it now. The problem is that there isn't any data on how many workers died. There are deaths by age, but the question is, are those who died in "working age" in fact, all workers? Or is there the chance that many of them could have had health problems that made them less likely to be employed (or under-employed). Regardless a 5mph change in speed limit is linked to about a 4-7% increase in fatalities.

Also, the death rate for Coronavirus in people under fifty is incredibly small.
Uhm, can you do math? Or are you too stupid to even do a basic equation?
What orhpans? The death rate is overwhelmingly confined to the elderly. Do you not know the death rate for people under 50 when it comes to Corona?

We create orphans by people carrying their phones into their cars and not mandating that they be tethered to the car and forced to turn off like some sort of breathalyzer car starter. We create orphans with a 70mph speed limit. We create orphans by not forcibly regulating calorie and sugar consumption. We create orphans with legal alcohol.
Hospitalizations and death rates for younger Covid-19 patients continue to rise. Nevertheless, your willingness to throw the old and the fat to the wolves for money
I'd just like to post this again, to show everyone gogators! brain works and how deficient it is. Dude thought this was a great point. He also didn't bother to do the math before posting.

And these are the people who think we should have lockdowns and the economic impacts won't be a problem. Ones who can't even do basic math.
Hospitalizations and deaths of under 50 covid-19 patients are increasing.

It appears that you're arguing for increased regulation in some areas but none for Covid-19. That's a strange contradiction.  And your willingness to throw the old and fat to the wolves for economic reasons is something most people naturally shun. But it's easy to be judge, jury and executioner on the internet.

How MANY people would die under your plan? Not a presumed percentage but a hard number--can you provide that?

Seven billion US is nothing to sneeze at. It certainly shows that your assertions concerning potential government stimulus are wild overstatements.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5920

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #138 on: August 22, 2021, 07:41:53 pm »
The Korean government. Also, I pay taxes to the government. But what does that have to do with wanting balanced budgets? People in the future should not get a bill for benefits being given now.
So others are paying for your livelihood?

Government spending is insuring that there is both a present and a future.


Re: What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?
« Reply #139 on: August 23, 2021, 02:52:41 am »
Hospitalizations and death rates for younger Covid-19 patients continue to rise. Nevertheless, your willingness to throw the old and the fat to the wolves for money
At some point you have to balance lives saved with economic catastrophe, because long-term economic catastrophe will kill many people as well.

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Hospitalizations and deaths of under 50 covid-19 patients are increasing.
By how much?

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How MANY people would die under your plan? Not a presumed percentage but a hard number--can you provide that?
Are you seriously expecting me to give you a perfectly precise number?

I already stated the death rate I'm willing to accept. If you are too stupid to be able to do the math off of that, then that's your problem, not mine.

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Seven billion US is nothing to sneeze at. It certainly shows that your assertions concerning potential government stimulus are wild overstatements.
Dude, can you do math?

https://www.mss.go.kr/site/eng/02/20202000000002019110610.jsp
There are something like 13 million people employed in micro and small-sized business in Korea. $7 billion would equal about $540 dollars per person. That's not anywhere near enough to handle a 75% decline in business.

Seriously, did you really think this was a good point? Did you actually bother to do the math or did you just go "$7 billion is a big number, this proves my point"?