What COVID death rate are you willing to accept for normal life?

Rather than death rate, I would say till at least 75-80% of the country has been fully vaccinated.

Covid is here to stay. It will be seasonal just like the flu, and in a few decades (if things go according to plan) it will basically be the new flu...inconvenient to have but not a death sentence or a life of disability.

So no speed limits, seat belts, car seats, air bags and driver's tests?

Never go full libertarian.

The "so" tell for cognitive dissonance and misstating someones opinion.

"So, you think lobsters should wear seatbelts?"

You're equating seatbelts to Stage IV social distancing and mask mandates? To online classes? To the banning of spectator sports and concerts? Seriously?

The "so" tell for cognitive dissonance and misstating someones opinion.

"So, you think lobsters should wear seatbelts?"

You're equating seatbelts to Stage IV social distancing and mask mandates? To online classes? To the banning of spectator sports and concerts? Seriously?

That's what "So" is when you use it, because you are incapable of having an honest argument. 

The outrage over seatbelts, car registrations, catalytic converters, etc is not largely remembered today, but it was quite strong.  Not like the lunacy we have now, since the moron contingent has been so empowered by having had their poster child in the highest office the last four years.

That's what "So" is when you use it, because you are incapable of having an honest argument. 

The outrage over seatbelts, car registrations, catalytic converters, etc is not largely remembered today, but it was quite strong.  Not like the lunacy we have now, since the moron contingent has been so empowered by having had their poster child in the highest office the last four years.

If you're the one using "so", it's not me that's being dishonest. There's a reason it's a tell.

Are you seriously equating the effect and disruption of SEAT BELTS and catalytic converters with

1) A ban on dining with 4 or more people after 6PM?
2) The closing of all nightclubs, kareoke joints, and other forms of entertainment?
3) The shuttering of schools and colleges across the country and having kids go from learning in person to learning via digital communication?
4) A major disruption in international travel, essentially suspending the entire international tourism industry?
5) Bans on mass political gatherings?
6) Severe economic disruption and the collapse of certain sectors of the economy due to these measures?

What death rate are you willing to accept to return to normal life (no masking, no social distancing measure, no track and trace, etc.)?

A death rate approx 5x higher than it is now

A better question that people are actually asking is should medical insurance refuse to cover Covid-19-related hospital costs for unvaccinated people? One proposal was to give them six week advance notice and then cut off their benefits. I'm in favor of it.

If you're the one using "so", it's not me that's being dishonest. There's a reason it's a tell.

Are you seriously equating the effect and disruption of SEAT BELTS and catalytic converters with

1) A ban on dining with 4 or more people after 6PM?
2) The closing of all nightclubs, kareoke joints, and other forms of entertainment?
3) The shuttering of schools and colleges across the country and having kids go from learning in person to learning via digital communication?
4) A major disruption in international travel, essentially suspending the entire international tourism industry?
5) Bans on mass political gatherings?
6) Severe economic disruption and the collapse of certain sectors of the economy due to these measures?

I don't know about "effect and disruption" but they are certainly comparable in that they are efforts by well-meaning governments with expert guidance to mitigate or minimize real harms to the citizenry that elected them. 

But, y'know, I'm not crazy about some of this myself--I miss attending baseball and soccer games, for instance.  OTOH, where'd you get that noraebangs are closed?  I went to one on Tuesday night with a friend, after dinner out. 

And while we're at it, we should face the fact that as draconian as you--or I--may think those measures are, they're obviously not enough, as Covid rates here continue to be in the stratosphere. 

I have an acquaintance who was recently whining on FB about having to wear a mask--and he just recovered from a bout in the hospital with Covid and is walking around with some amount of viral lode.  And planning to join a RL meet-up with several others this weekend.  FTR, I won't be there, as I haven't for a year or more, though I've been involved for years. 

As much as anyone, I bemoan the online teaching thing, because I have definitely seen poorer outcomes from my students in the time since this all started.   However, I have been impressed by the investment in both online technologies and the classroom stuff--not just webcams, my school has put in these massive air purifiers in every room, not to mention shields, wipes and sanitizers that would cause some/many American school districts to lay off teachers en masse.

Sadly, there will be lingering effects on certain sectors of the economy, but on the whole Korea seems to be doing okay.  BoK predicts growth of 4% for the year, and exports (it's an export-based economy) hit their highest ever level last month. 

A person is willing to let others die so one oneself can return to one's regular routine, vacations, etc.

How many others is just a question of the degree one's survivor guilt needs assuaging.

I thought this video might be helpful as part of an information campaign for some of your students.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2fJkB-LPHc&t=79s

A person is willing to let others die so one oneself can return to one's regular routine, vacations, etc.

How many others is just a question of the degree one's survivor guilt needs assuaging.

Did you wear a mask at all times outside the home, observe social distancing etc before Covid when many people died of regular flu? Assuming you didn't there must have been an acceptable, guilt free  risk of death you and society were prepared to tolerate to go on functioning freely.

... you and society...

The important difference.

There certainly does appear to be an elevated level of hostility on the board of late.  Have the mods been asleep at the wheel?

Sorry, yeah, I'm on vacay. I pop in once a day to make sure stuff isn't on fire or Northstar has made another alt, but cant be anywhere near as thorough as when I'm at school on a regular workday.
Flag bad comments and I'll axe them! Eventually!

A better question that people are actually asking is should medical insurance refuse to cover Covid-19-related hospital costs for unvaccinated people? One proposal was to give them six week advance notice and then cut off their benefits. I'm in favor of it.

Great position! Let’s also refuse coverage to people with a BMI over 30. Agree?

Great position! Let’s also refuse coverage to people with a BMI over 30. Agree?

I pay a surcharge for that, because it isn’t isn’t hard to figure out that my costs will be, on average, 10% higher.

If you are the fatality, then a 0.000000001% death rate is too much.

I have talked to someone who lost two relatives to COVID19.

You and I are willing to put her, she, they at risk....

(But let's not pretend the present coronovirus isn't ten to twenty times as deadly as influenza.)

Great position! Let’s also refuse coverage to people with a BMI over 30. Agree?

Smokers and the obese already pay higher premiums. If you're in a car accident while drunk, insurance won't cover you.

Great position! Let’s also refuse coverage to people with a BMI over 30. Agree?

Well the BMI analogy is a poor one. It's much easier to take a couple of shots in the arm than work off a substantial amount of kgs. I guess it would really depend on a person's reason for not being vaccinated. There are some people who are prone to anaphylaxis for which refusal would be reasonable. However, even those of us with a socialised medical system are considering restrictions for the unreasonable unvaccinated. Being a fan of Tucker Carlson or Fox News wouldn't count as reasonable ground for objection by the way!

Well the BMI analogy is a poor one. It's much easier to take a couple of shots in the arm than work off a substantial amount of kgs. I guess it would really depend on a person's reason for not being vaccinated. There are some people who are prone to anaphylaxis for which refusal would be reasonable. However, even those of us with a socialised medical system are considering restrictions for the unreasonable unvaccinated. Being a fan of Tucker Carlson or Fox News wouldn't count as reasonable ground for objection by the way!

So you are saying "no".

So you are saying "no".

No, to what exactly?  I didn't see it as a 'yes/no' question but rather one requiring a more detailed response.
It would be a 'NO' to a purely unsocialised, for profit medical health care system though. However, the reality for a lot of us is somewhere in between, a combination of private and public health care. I'm yet to have experienced the need for private health insurance so I find it a little difficult to comprehend the problems that some of you speak about when faced the possibility of being refused health insurance.

The "so" tell for cognitive dissonance and misstating someones opinion.

So in other words, you admit your point is nonsense.

https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=105109.60