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Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2021, 05:45:24 pm »
Whether one likes it or not, it is a fact that in Asian societies subordinates bow to superiors, literally and figuratively. It is a bigger problem here than in Western societies. Korea is as bad as any other country for this mindset.
Again, contrary to popular opinion, in the workplace, research showed that Japanese (and Germans) were more likely to argue over things than Americans. These beliefs that certain cultures just bow while others are egalitarian is at times based more on stereotype and bias, rather than actual fact. Now, it might well be that Korea is different from Japan, but the question here is- What data are Gladwell and others working off of? Did they look into any incidents where a junior Korean officer challenged a superior? Is this assumption based off of anything other than stereotype and bias? What about the age difference and aviation training difference that AskAKorean noted in his article?

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300 high school kids drowned on the Suwol because the captain told them to stay in their rooms.
There were many bad decisions by the captain. The captain telling kids to stay inside a listing ship that was sinking at what initially appeared to be a very slow rate is way down on the list. Given that ships can take minutes to days to sink, the decision to send people to the top of a listing vessel (and risk exacerbating the degree of list) is a decision that weights percentages, not guarantees. If the ship would have ended up taking hours or days to sink and he had done that and it ended up capsizing rapidly due to him sending a bunch of people to the top, then people would be criticizing him the other way. It's a hindsight is 20-20 call. Now, you might say he made the wrong call based on the odds, but it was a "fog of war" decision in which he had incomplete information to make the decision. Disobedience of a captain's order in another situation might lead to death and tragedy in another way.

Also, to anyone about to blast me for this- If you cannot read the above and understand the nuance of the argument, then you don't belong at the adult table and are not part of any rational discussion. My prediction: 75% of people reading what above will say "You're defending the captain and agreeing with him" and thus misunderstand and misrepresent my point.

Regardless, it seems this is a case of "Koreans listen- They're just mindless obedient drones" but of course with other things "Koreans don't follow rules and ignore everything", which seems to apply based on whatever (often bigoted) argument the person wants to make. No matter what Koreans do, they have a way to blast them for it.

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Asiana 214 could have been avoided easily. In fact should have, had it not been for the "I'm higher than him" attitude, or "He's higher than me" if you would.
Did you read the Ask a Korean and the Salon pilot articles? Any comment on the points they raised as to why the culture/ethnic explanation is really a poor fit?

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Air Ontario 1363 should never have happened. In fact, it led to changes in CRM.   

There are too many occurrences........
I agree. I think the problems are rather universal in airlines, any organization with hierarchy and where you're going to have professionals randomly being paired together and a seniority aspect. There's a reason these happened with American, Dutch, Canadian, Korean, etc. pilots and often with multiple incidents. I mean, think about all of the near-misses that undoubtedly must have happened for American, Dutch, Canadian, etc. airlines and pilots throughout their history. How many times did some pilot "pull rank" (not an Asian expression) and do what they did? The very existence of the phrase "pulling rank" and all the connotations it has suggests that this is a common phenomenon in the English-speaking world as well.

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The cowardice and "It's not my fault, it was the XYZ..." of the pilots was disturbing, disgusting and so very Korean.
I love how whenever Korean people do something bad, it's because of their ethnicity or culture. It can never be an individual is shit. Also, when someone of say, American or British does the exact same thing, it's not treated as culture and no one says "so very British".

Can someone please tell me what the rules are for when it's "culture" in an accident? Is Korea supposed to have zero accidents? Are all their accidents due to culture/ethnicity? How come accidents in the U.S. or the U.K. are not due to "culture" or ethnicity? Is Grenfell Towers due to British culture? Is the Surfside Apartment collapse due to culture?



  • Sagi Keun
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Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2021, 06:56:11 pm »
KAL 007 was spying. How, don't know. Why, obvious. Where, look at their flight route. It is inconceivable they could have been that far off course accidentally. Missing Bethel and the request to climb to FL 350 is huge red flags.

I doubt that Koreans would be willing to risk their lives for a Miguk spy mission.

I'm willing to bet that it was simple obliviousness and lack of awareness.

When you see how oblivious most Korean drivers and pedestrians act to whatever is around them its really not a stretch to see how  this would extend to the cockpit. They live in their own world. They didn't even notice the warning missiles flying by.

Possibly also the language barrier. The Russians tried to warn them on the intercom but they didn't get it.


Quote from: BeMartino
I love how whenever Korean people do something bad, it's because of their ethnicity or culture. It can never be an individual

Well the commonalities are stronger in korean culture than the dissimilarities. Koreans often act without consideration of others in the same space.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 07:03:34 pm by Sagi Keun »


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Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2021, 01:43:04 am »
I doubt that Koreans would be willing to risk their lives for a Miguk spy mission.
It was the early-80s. South Korea was still very much dependent on American assistance. Also, any hypothetical photographs would be taken by a Korean Air aircraft means that Korean officials got first dibs on any information gathered.


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2021, 07:12:27 am »
I'm willing to bet that it was simple obliviousness and lack of awareness.

No co-pilots would dare to even suggest to their captain that he was off course. KAL training was of a very amateurish level. Instruction in emergency or collaborative measures was non-existent. K-men flew planes like they do their cars. Nobody else exists, zero peripheral awareness and don't bother to look in their rear view mirror.

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The autopilot system used at the time had four basic control modes: HEADING, VOR/LOC, ILS, and INS. The HEADING mode maintained a constant magnetic course selected by the pilot. The VOR/LOC mode maintained the plane on a specific course, transmitted from a VOR or LOC beacon selected by the pilot. The ILS  mode caused the plane to track both vertical and lateral course beacons, which led to a specific runway selected by the pilot. The INS mode maintained the plane on lateral course lines between selected flight plan waypoints programmed into the INS computer.

When the INS navigation systems were properly programmed with the filed flight plan waypoints, the pilot could turn the autopilot mode selector switch to the INS position and the plane would then automatically track the programmed INS course line, provided the plane was headed in the proper direction and within 7.5 miles (12.1 km) of that course line. If, however, the plane was more than 7.5 miles (12.1 km) from the flight-planned course line when the pilot turned the autopilot mode selector from HEADING to INS, the plane would continue to track the heading selected in HEADING mode as long as the actual position of the plane was more than 7.5 miles (12.1 km) from the programmed INS course line. The autopilot computer software commanded the INS mode to remain in the "armed" condition until the plane had moved to a position less than 7.5 miles (12.1 km) from the desired course line. Once that happened, the INS mode would change from "armed" to "capture" and the plane would track the flight-planned course from then on.[22]

The HEADING mode of the autopilot would normally be engaged sometime after takeoff to comply with vectors from ATC, and then after receiving appropriate ATC clearance, to guide the plane to intercept the desired INS course line.[22]

The Anchorage VOR beacon was not operational because of maintenance.[23] The crew received a NOTAM of this fact, which was not seen as a problem, as the captain could still check his position at the next VORTAC beacon at Bethel, 346 miles (557 km) away. The aircraft was required to maintain the assigned heading of 220 degrees, until it could receive the signals from Bethel, then it could fly direct to Bethel, as instructed by ATC, by centering the VOR "to" course deviation indicator (CDI) and then engaging the auto pilot in the VOR/LOC mode. Then, when over the Bethel beacon, the flight could start using INS mode to follow the waypoints that make up route Romeo-20 around the coast of the U.S.S.R. to Seoul. The INS mode was necessary for this route, since after Bethel the plane would be mostly out of range from VOR stations.

International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) simulation and analysis of the flight data recorder determined that this deviation was probably caused by the aircraft's autopilot system operating in HEADING mode, after the point that it should have been switched to the INS mode.[9][25] According to the ICAO, the autopilot was not operating in the INS mode either because the crew did not switch the autopilot to the INS mode (shortly after Cairn Mountain), or they did select the INS mode, but the computer did not transition from INERTIAL NAVIGATION ARMED to INS mode because the aircraft had already deviated off track by more than the 7.5 miles (12.1 km) tolerance permitted by the inertial navigation computer. Whatever the reason, the autopilot remained in the HEADING mode, and the problem was not detected by the crew.[9]

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007_transcripts

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1754:26   Flight Deck: "Have you had a long flight recently?"
1754:28   Flight Deck: "From time to time"
1754:30   Flight Deck: "Sounds good, as far as I know Chief Pilot Park has a long flight occasionally, but Chief Pilot Lee has..."

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1804–05 KAL 007, off course, and KAL 015, on course, compare wind velocity and direction. KAL 015 is encountering tailwinds while KAL 007 is encountering headwinds
KAL 015: "Um Um We are now having an unexpected strong tailwind. How much do you get there? How much and which direction?"

KAL 007: "206. Ask him how many knots?..."

KAL 007: "Ah! You got so much! We still got headwind. Headwind 215 degrees, 15 knots."

KAL 015: "Is it so? But according to flight plan wind direction 360, 15 knots approximately."

KAL 007: "Well, it may be like this."

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1811:30–39   KAL 007 Flight Crew: "I have heard that there is currency exchange at your airport." "In the airport currency exchange? What kind of money?" "Dollar to Korean money." "That's in the domestic building too, domestic building too."

You claimed that the crew was afraid to inform the Captain that they were off-course due to culture. Care to explain how you reached that conclusion, based on the information above?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 07:14:23 am by Mr.DeMartino »


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2021, 07:27:44 am »
By the way, someone was suffering from serious issues with hierarchy and questioning one's superiors

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1749   Capt. Solodkov: "Two pilots have just been sent up, command at the command post, we do not know what is happening just now, it's heading straight for our Island [Sakhalin], to Terpienie [Bay] somehow, this looks very suspicious to me, I don't think the enemy is stupid, can it be one of ours?"
1753   First documented order for shootdown.
General Anatoli Kornukov (Photo),[Notes 1] commander of Sokol Airbase on Sakhalin to the command post of General Valeri Kamenski, Commander of Air Defense Forces for the Far East Military District, "...simply destroy [it] even if it is over neutral waters? Are the orders to destroy it over neutral waters? Oh, well."

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1814   Gen Kornukov to Gen. Kamenski: "Comrade General, Kamenski, Good morning. I am reporting the situation. Target 60-65 is over Terpenie Bay [East Coast of Sakhalin] tracking 240, 30 kilometers from the State Border. The fighter from Sokol is 6 kilometers away. Locked on, orders were given to arm weapons. The target is not responding to identify. He cannot identify it visually because it is still dark, but he is still locked on."
Gen. Kamenski: "We must find out, maybe it is some civilian craft or God knows who."

Kornukov: "What civilian? [It] has flown over Kamchatka! It [came] from the ocean without identification. I am giving the order to attack if it crosses the State border."

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1815   Titovnin: "Maistrenko Comrade Colonel, that is, Titovnin."
Col. Maistrenko (Operations Duty Officer, Combat Control Center): "Yes".

Titovnin: "The commander has given orders that if the border is violated—destroy [the target]."

Maistrenko: "...May [be] a passenger [aircraft]. All necessary steps must be taken to identify it."

Titovnin: "Identification measures are being taken, but the pilot cannot see. It's dark. Even now it's still dark."

Maistrenko: "Well, okay. The task is correct. If there are no lights—it cannot be a passenger [aircraft]."

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1821:35   Osipovich: "Yes, I'm approaching the target. I'm going in closer."
1821:35   Osipovich: "The target's (strobe) light is blinking. I have already approached the target to a distance of about 2 kilometers."

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1822:17   Osipovich: "I am going around it. I'm already moving in front of the target."
1822:17   Titovnin: "Increase speed, 805" [call sign of Osipovich's Sukhoi].
1822:23   Osipovich: "I have increased speed."
1822:23   Titovnin: "Has the target increased speed, yes?"
1822:29   Osipovich: "No, it is decreasing speed."
1822:29   Titovnin: "805, open fire on target."
1822:42   Osipovich: "It should have been earlier. How can I chase it? I'm already abeam of the target."
1822:42   Titovnin: "Roger, if possible, take up a position for attack."
1822:55   Osipovich: "Now I have to fall back a bit from the target."
1821–22   Kornukov: "Gerasimenko, cut the horseplay at the command post, what is that noise there? I repeat the combat task: fire missiles, fire on target 60-65."
Gerasimenko: "Wilco"

Kornukov: "Comply and get Tarasov here. Take control of the Mig-23 from Smirnykh, call sign 163, call sign 163, he is behind the target at the moment. Destroy the target!"

Gerasimenko: "Task received. Destroy target 60-65 with missile fire, accept control of fighter from Smirnykh"

Kornukov: "Carry out the task, destroy [it]!"

1822:55   Gen. Kornukov: "Oh, [‍expletives] how long does it take him to get into attack position, he is already getting out into neutral waters? Engage afterburner immediately. Bring in the MiG 23 as well... While you are wasting time it will fly right out."[12]
Titovnin: "805, try to destroy the target with cannons."

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"I saw two rows of windows and knew that this was a Boeing. I knew this was a civilian plane. But for me this meant nothing. It is easy to turn a civilian type of plane into one for military use."[40] That was an evaluation more properly to have been made by his higher command.[attribution needed] He did not offer even one broad detail of the immensity of the giant aircraft to the ground controllers: "I did not tell the ground that it was a Boeing-type plane; they did not ask me."[39][40][note 3]

Yes, the issue is clearly the Koreans and their culture, not the officers in charge of Soviet Air Defence in that region that day. I mean, compared to the Korean transcript above, this is a model of coordination and questioning of orders even though people have some doubts.

They didn't even notice the warning missiles flying by.

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The pilot of the lead Su-15 fighter fired warning shots with its cannon, but recalled later in 1991, "I fired four bursts, more than 200 rounds. For all the good it did. After all, I was loaded with armor piercing shells, not incendiary shells. It's doubtful whether anyone could see them."[39]

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Possibly also the language barrier. The Russians tried to warn them on the intercom but they didn't get it.

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We shot down the plane legally... Later we began to lie about small details: the plane was supposedly flying without running lights or strobe light, that tracer bullets were fired, or that I had radio contact with them on the emergency frequency of 121.5 megahertz.[42]

Any other insights, genius?

And nothing like those Koreans who always lie and coverup anytime something goes wrong and say "it wasn't our fault".
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 07:34:24 am by Mr.DeMartino »


  • Liechtenstein
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Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2021, 12:53:25 pm »
Man, DM and his apologist crap have really gone off the rails here.

I have much more inside info than I give out. DM, you are wrong here.


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2021, 01:15:43 pm »
Man, DM and his apologist crap have really gone off the rails here.

I have much more inside info than I give out. DM, you are wrong here.
Well, I can only go off the information that is publicly available. I don't have inside info and thus I shouldn't be faulted for only going off the public record. If you have inside info, please share it.

1) OPs claim that this was due to a junior officer being reluctant to question their commander does not appear to be supported by the transcript
2) While certainly one could cite gross negligence in the navigation error, this wasn't exactly Bud Holland stuff or equivalent to "Korean asshole driving". In fact, I do believe that the autopilot system was actually changed because of the problems this revealed, not that it excused the crew.
3) The claim that this was due to culture, specifically Korean culture, is really odd when you look at the transcript of Russian communications. Basically all the things the OP claims that Koreans do, the Russians in fact did.
4) It is interesting that all the blame and "culture blame" is on the Koreans, yet no one even thinks to apply that to the Russians. You know, THE ONES THAT SHOT DOWN A CIVILIAN AIRLINER.
5) That the OPs claim that it is such a Korean thing to lie and cover up, didn't even apply here because the Koreans weren't the one leading the investigation and those involved on the Russian side have outright admitted to lying and covering up.
6) OP claimed that they couldn't see missiles flying by and thus the crew was incompetent because of such obliviousness. The warning shots were in fact, cannons not missiles and were not tracer rounds and thus unlikely to be seen.

Now, as far as the public record is concerned, is anything I said wrong? Is any of it in contradiction to the public record? How is anything I pointed out "apologist"?

If you have additional info, please share.

You yourself posted-
The pilots missed Bethel by 12 miles. The last checkpoint leaving North America. That is unbelievable. An experienced crew being that off course and getting further off course by the minute. I don't believe it. I think it was outfitted with special gear to spy on Kamchatka's military defenses. And why after flying over it did they request a climb to flight level 350?

Something was amiss with that flight.

Which I'm not really arguing with, because that would be information that isn't publicly available, at least on official sources. I'm not discounting or denying this could be the case, nor saying it unlikely even.

You didn't make any of the claims that OP did regarding KAL007. I don't really know what you are bothered by.


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Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2021, 01:32:19 pm »
I'm not bothered, I know things. That's all. I'm not divulging them either. Certainly not here. But I talk with friends.

Anybody remember the Air Canada pilot that was dragged outta the flight deck screaming "We're all gonna die." before being hog-tied and strapped into a seat in business class forcing a landing in Limerick? I know about that too.


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2021, 01:46:14 pm »
I'm not bothered, I know things. That's all. I'm not divulging them either. Certainly not here. But I talk with friends.
Right and you don't have to, just it didn't really seem you were going down the culture route more of the spy route. Don't really see how what I wrote was apologist. Seemed that what SaegiKun claimed was pretty clearly directly contradicted by the official record (not saying that the official record is what in fact happened). What exactly was apologist about what I wrote?


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Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2021, 03:07:27 pm »
I don't want to get into anything here DM, but you do come across as a bit of a Korea apologist in general. That's okay, if you're happy there and digging life then more power to you.

I am not swallowing the official record as it has been dispersed to the media. I believe you have a pilot's license as well but I'm not sure how much time you've spent in the flight deck of a mainline jet. Transcripts are not always exact replicas of black boxes. I know you know that. Assuming the military jets were radar active and FD systems were receiving on the KAL, the computers would have been singing. It's simply not believable, assuming SOP's were being followed that the pilots were unaware. 200 rounds from a fighter zipping by, tracers or not, would have been noticed.

The Asiana flight was a joke from the start. The FAA called it pilot error within a day or two. Unheard of. The FD computers on that plane would have been deafening.

I had a long chat yesterday with a longtime friend, retired 747 skipper, and we got on the topic. He has a friend who was a Sim CTC with Asiana for a while. Scary scary stuff.....I don't like flying anymore. That's a mouthful.


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2021, 03:35:53 pm »
I believe you have a pilot's license as well but I'm not sure how much time you've spent in the flight deck of a mainline jet.
No, both my parents were pilots and my dad had a homebuilt. Went flying every weekend with them for 10+ years and towards the end would often fly in between takeoff and landing and also navigate, so like I said, my knowledge is mostly in light civil aircraft (well, that and historical knowledge of warbirds, but that's  a million other people too). Most wild thing I ever did was fly with one of my dad's friends into Oshkosh and had to know the full NOTAM and had to know that 30 minute VHS they put out on all the procedures for that whole Ripon to Fiske to Oshkosh cluster F (which actually while looking like a Cluster F was handled exceptionally well and professionally by both pilots and ATCs. Commercial airlines, nothing beyond what general aviation people might know. There were a few commercial/Air National Guard guys in my dads EAA club but they didn't really talk business. They were there for their homebuilts and flying out of grass strips or lakes.

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Transcripts are not always exact replicas of black boxes. I know you know that.
Oh of course. Especially ones in Soviet hands. Unless Saegki Kun has something else, though I don't really see how his point applied. Maybe if he was talking about the Asiana crash or the Guam crash, that would have been relevant.

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200 rounds from a fighter zipping by, tracers or not, would have been noticed.
I dunno, that's a fairly short burst and apparently was at night/dusk so there wouldn't have been much. I was at a show at Grayling AFB where an A-10 did a gunnery run and while you could certainly hear things from the ground, the only sight you got of the rounds was then they broke they passed with a sonic boom. Other than that you couldn't see anything because they didn't use tracers. Even the Russian pilot said it was doubtful they would have seen anything. I don't think anyone has contradicted that point.

As far as culture goes, my point has always been that history shows that CRM can be a touchy issue across various cultures and there's a reason it is taught around the globe and anyone, be they Canadian or American or Korean can be hesitant to voice concerns or perhaps phrase it as a suggestion when they should phrase it more directly. Certainly KAL and Asiana had this problem as well.

I just think sometimes the culture argument can be too easily bandied about and many people making it (not you) seem to think this isn't an issue anywhere else but Korea.


  • Sagi Keun
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Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2021, 11:23:40 pm »
Oh of course. Especially ones in Soviet hands.

You very American mistrust of Russia combined with an infantile unwarranted faith in your own government is sooo.. early 80's. Actually it prompts me to do what I always intended, and that is to get to - as I hinted in the title of my original post- The truth about KAL Flight 007.

someone had to be stopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BPhYEFGaGM

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"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and communism under the same tent, all under their control. Do i mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent".

Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976.

- killed in the Korean airlines 747 that was shot down on September 1st 1983.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 12:02:03 am by Sagi Keun »


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2021, 10:40:37 am »
You very American mistrust of Russia combined with an infantile unwarranted faith in your own government is sooo.. early 80's. Actually it prompts me to do what I always intended, and that is to get to - as I hinted in the title of my original post- The truth about KAL Flight 007.
Dude, I've blasted Russiagate nonsense on this site for the past 5 years. I blasted those who said all Russians should be banned from the Olympics.

But to think the Societ Union doesn't lie or wouldn't put its finger on the scale is ridiculous. Even the pilot admitted they lied.

It's one thing to say neither America nor Russia can be trusted because that's true. It's another to claim the Soviets are always on the up and up. Every government lies. The idiots are people who think "everyone lies but my side."


  • Sagi Keun
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Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2021, 04:06:40 pm »
Dude, I've blasted Russiagate nonsense on this site for the past 5 years. I blasted those who said all Russians should be banned from the Olympics.

But to think the Societ Union doesn't lie or wouldn't put its finger on the scale is ridiculous. Even the pilot admitted they lied.

It's one thing to say neither America nor Russia can be trusted because that's true. It's another to claim the Soviets are always on the up and up. Every government lies. The idiots are people who think "everyone lies but my side."

There is evidence to show it was  on a clandestine US spy mission. They did not believe the soviets would shoot down a civilian airliner, but when they did, the US govt indulged in a massive cover-up.

Second theory is that because Congressman Larry McDonald was on the flight they decided to put it into harms way. McDonald was an early whistleblower who could easily have become president.

Another theory is that both the soviets and the Americans conspired to get rid of McDonald, because the globalist conspiracy involves individuals in both governments. The flight was lured off course by the soviets then downed.

Another is that the flight was forced to land on Sakhalin then McDonald and the passengers were taken off. McDonald was interned in the USSR.

Another is that 007 was accidentally shot down when caught in a firefight between soviet and US fighter planes.

There are several theories -and several books written- about how and why flight 007 was shot down.


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Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2021, 05:03:43 pm »
So dumb. All those spy planes and spy satellites but no it was KAL they needed to do the job.

I'll be damned if I accept obvious and plausible explanations for this. It was because McDonalds was going to become a Senator.
oo oo ahh ahh


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2021, 11:47:20 pm »
There is evidence to show it was  on a clandestine US spy mission. They did not believe the soviets would shoot down a civilian airliner, but when they did, the US govt indulged in a massive cover-up.

Second theory is that because Congressman Larry McDonald was on the flight they decided to put it into harms way. McDonald was an early whistleblower who could easily have become president.

Another theory is that both the soviets and the Americans conspired to get rid of McDonald, because the globalist conspiracy involves individuals in both governments. The flight was lured off course by the soviets then downed.

Another is that the flight was forced to land on Sakhalin then McDonald and the passengers were taken off. McDonald was interned in the USSR.

Another is that 007 was accidentally shot down when caught in a firefight between soviet and US fighter planes.

There are several theories -and several books written- about how and why flight 007 was shot down.
I'd wager incompetence from the Soviets with the KAL pilots adding the whipped cream, nuts, sauce and cherry.

If something more nefarious I'd wager Soviets and Americans together.