Read 2205 times

  • Sagi Keun
  • Veteran

    • 107

    • May 10, 2018, 11:47:23 am
    • Los Angeles
The truth about KAL Flight 007
« on: July 24, 2021, 01:37:49 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyPfNVPg0-0&list=PLTDj3uee_kglCMupayDWXK00DMK915n7s&index=7

Korean Air Lines Flight 007  was a scheduled Korean Air Lines flight from New York City to Seoul via Anchorage, Alaska. On September 1, 1983, the South Korean airliner servicing the flight was shot down by a Soviet Su-15 interceptor. The Boeing 747 airliner was en route from Anchorage to Seoul, but due to a navigational mistake made by the KAL crew the airliner deviated from its original planned route and flew through Soviet prohibited airspace about the time of a U.S. aerial reconnaissance mission. The Soviet Air Forces treated the unidentified aircraft as an intruding U.S. spy plane, and destroyed it with air-to-air missiles, after firing warning shots which were likely not seen by the KAL pilots. The Korean airliner eventually crashed in the sea near Moneron Island west of Sakhalin in the Sea of Japan. All 269 passengers and crew aboard were killed.


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 3016

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2021, 02:19:33 am »
Not surprised.

When it comes to planes and incidents and governments there is a lot of history.

'Nuff said.


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2021, 09:21:55 am »
My wack-a-doodle "I don't really believe it, but I do wonder..." theory is that TWA Flight 800 was some sort of "authorized" shootdown by Iran as compensation for the Vincennes incident. Either that or North Korea did it and we just didn't want to go to war. I know the usual TWA 800 conspiracy theories, but thought these could be something.

I don't really believe either but it is kind of "fun" (not so much since real people died) to think about like say, Gary Powers was actually shot down by a UFO!
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 12:30:17 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4847

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2021, 11:05:39 pm »
The Evil Empire. 


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1728

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2021, 02:09:02 pm »
The pilots missed Bethel by 12 miles. The last checkpoint leaving North America. That is unbelievable. An experienced crew being that off course and getting further off course by the minute. I don't believe it. I think it was outfitted with special gear to spy on Kamchatka's military defenses. And why after flying over it did they request a climb to flight level 350?

Something was amiss with that flight. 


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2194

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2021, 03:13:35 pm »
The pilots missed Bethel by 12 miles. The last checkpoint leaving North America. That is unbelievable. An experienced crew being that off course and getting further off course by the minute. I don't believe it. I think it was outfitted with special gear to spy on Kamchatka's military defenses. And why after flying over it did they request a climb to flight level 350?

Something was amiss with that flight. 
Most, if not all, Korean national commercial airline pilots in Korea are former air force pilots. And back in the 80s even more so. They know how to follow orders, so if instructed to fly into Russian territory for 'extra-curricular' activities they will do. It was known that the Russians routinely used commercials airlines from former Soviet bloc nations  to take aerial photos of western Europe. So, it wouldn't be too far fetched to think the US would have done the same. Hmmm what two countries would have legit reasons to fly their commercial jets near Russian airspace closer than the standard route through that area? hmmm... South Korea, and Japan.

Also, Korean Air pilots were given bonuses for arriving earlier, so it wouldn't be too surprising they'd take short-cuts through Russian space. They've probably done tons of times before without being blown out of the sky.

A combination of the above is how the flight got so far into Russian airspace imo.


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1728

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2021, 04:08:47 pm »
Most, if not all, Korean national commercial airline pilots in Korea are former air force pilots. And back in the 80s even more so. They know how to follow orders, so if instructed to fly into Russian territory for 'extra-curricular' activities they will do. It was known that the Russians routinely used commercials airlines from former Soviet bloc nations  to take aerial photos of western Europe. So, it wouldn't be too far fetched to think the US would have done the same. Hmmm what two countries would have legit reasons to fly their commercial jets near Russian airspace closer than the standard route through that area? hmmm... South Korea, and Japan.

Also, Korean Air pilots were given bonuses for arriving earlier, so it wouldn't be too surprising they'd take short-cuts through Russian space. They've probably done tons of times before without being blown out of the sky.

A combination of the above is how the flight got so far into Russian airspace imo.

Taking a shortcut through restricted airspace without the consent of the sovereign nation is not done. ATC cannot give a commercial airliner permission to fly through the airspace of another sovereign nation without expressed permission. Said permission would almost certainly be on the flight navigation manifest the pilots pick up prior to departure because it would be considered irrops (irregular operations) There would also be recordings on the black boxes as the pilots adjusted radios, frequencies and navigation computers on the flight deck.

As to getting bonuses for early arrivals, maybe, but there are other factors involved. Planes gotta have a place to park. There's also inbound/outbound traffic to deal with. ATC cannot always slot you in line just cuz you're there early.  You can't just say we're here and pull up to a gate. They are all owned and or rented out to specific flights at specific times. That's why there are times when you arrive early, especially flying eastwardly with the jet stream pushing you at 200 knots (which they were not flying) and you sit on the tarmac idling until a gate opens up.

KAL 007 was spying. How, don't know. Why, obvious. Where, look at their flight route. It is inconceivable they could have been that far off course accidentally. Missing Bethel and the request to climb to FL 350 is huge red flags.


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2021, 04:29:48 pm »
I've only been involved with civil aviation and light aircraft, so I wouldn't know.

I'm not sure how strict or not strict things were back then- I could see it both ways A) Not as strict, because hey, it was the 80s and lots of crazy stuff was still allowed (you could still smoke!) or B) Stricter because of the Cold War.


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2194

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2021, 09:06:02 pm »
Taking a shortcut through restricted airspace without the consent of the sovereign nation is not done. ATC cannot give a commercial airliner permission to fly through the airspace of another sovereign nation without expressed permission. Said permission would almost certainly be on the flight navigation manifest the pilots pick up prior to departure because it would be considered irrops (irregular operations) There would also be recordings on the black boxes as the pilots adjusted radios, frequencies and navigation computers on the flight deck.

As to getting bonuses for early arrivals, maybe, but there are other factors involved. Planes gotta have a place to park. There's also inbound/outbound traffic to deal with. ATC cannot always slot you in line just cuz you're there early.  You can't just say we're here and pull up to a gate. They are all owned and or rented out to specific flights at specific times. That's why there are times when you arrive early, especially flying eastwardly with the jet stream pushing you at 200 knots (which they were not flying) and you sit on the tarmac idling until a gate opens up.

KAL 007 was spying. How, don't know. Why, obvious. Where, look at their flight route. It is inconceivable they could have been that far off course accidentally. Missing Bethel and the request to climb to FL 350 is huge red flags.
Just say It was the 80s. So, who knows how much you could bend the rules with traversing unauthorized airspace back then. But the plane was in Soviet airspace for a while, was close to exiting when it was shot. Remember, back then you were allowed to smoke on airplanes. Probably was a reason that the Americans used spy planes that looked remarkably like the 747, to confuse Russian fighters. And also, I think they'd never imagine them blowing an actual commercial plane out of the air.

Also, a Korean Air plane flying into Kimpo Airport, I don't envision problems with making space for them if they were early. And on top of that there weren't as many flights back then in Korea. It was 1983, most Koreans were starting to discover the car back then. And flying for pleasure was just at its beginning stages in the early-80s for Koreans. It was still difficult for a Korean to get a passport back then too.


  • Sagi Keun
  • Veteran

    • 107

    • May 10, 2018, 11:47:23 am
    • Los Angeles
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2021, 05:05:46 pm »
The pilots missed Bethel by 12 miles. The last checkpoint leaving North America. That is unbelievable. An experienced crew being that off course and getting further off course by the minute. I don't believe it. I think it was outfitted with special gear to spy on Kamchatka's military defenses. And why after flying over it did they request a climb to flight level 350?

Something was amiss with that flight. 

An ajosshi at the wheel of a vehicle who was oblivious to everything going on around him? No surprise there.

Of course the world was baffled by it, they assumed that common sense and logic existed in Korean work culture.

There's a reason Korean Air Lines used to have one of the worst safety records. Questioning a senior could end your career. No co-pilots would dare to even suggest to their captain that he was off course. KAL training was of a very amateurish level. Instruction in emergency or collaborative measures was non-existent. K-men flew planes like they do their cars. Nobody else exists, zero peripheral awareness and don't bother to look in their rear view mirror.


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2021, 06:33:01 pm »
There's a reason Korean Air Lines used to have one of the worst safety records. Questioning a senior could end your career. No co-pilots would dare to even suggest to their captain that he was off course. KAL training was of a very amateurish level. Instruction in emergency or collaborative measures was non-existent. K-men flew planes like they do their cars. Nobody else exists, zero peripheral awareness and don't bother to look in their rear view mirror.
Yes, it is only Koreans that do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0O18pQUzS8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Fairchild_Air_Force_Base_B-52_crash

You do know that this issue of Crew Resource Management exists across cultures, right? You think co-pilots in other countries are constantly overriding the pilot and challenging them?

Is this due to Canadian culture?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Air_Flight_6560
American culture?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_173
Is this due to Dutch culture?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster

There was a study I read a long time ago and sadly can't locate, but it looked at workplace agreeability and contrary to expectations, Japanese and Germans were actually MORE likely to argue and challenge each other than Americans. It seems Americans were actually much more sensitive regarding criticism.

It's important to not just fall into stereotype or to put too much stock into a hot chapter in a Malcolm Gladwell book. Any person who knows anything about aviation and pilots knows that "You don't putz with the pilot" and "The pilot makes the final decision" are serious rules and that two pilots working together who may not know each other well (or may know each other very well) may be reluctant to argue with the other.

Anyways, some internet nobody shit like you would probably utterly fail at being a pilot.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 06:35:10 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


  • Sagi Keun
  • Veteran

    • 107

    • May 10, 2018, 11:47:23 am
    • Los Angeles
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2021, 03:40:52 am »
There was a study I read a long time ago and sadly can't locate, but it looked at workplace agreeability and contrary to expectations, Japanese and Germans were actually MORE likely to argue and challenge each other than Americans.

Of course, yes. They do.


Quote
Korean Air Cargo Flight 8509

It was dark when the plane took off from London Stansted Airport, with the captain flying.[7] When the captain tried to bank the plane to turn left, his ADI showed it not banking, but the comparator alarm sounded repeatedly.[7] The first officer, whose own ADI would have shown the true angle of bank, failed to participate in full crew resource management techniques, saying nothing to challenge his captain's actions nor made any attempt to take over the flight with his own controls. The older and more experienced flight engineer did call out "bank" four times in 19 seconds, but the captain ignored his warnings, continued to ignore the chiming alarm,[2] made no verbal response, and actually continued to increase the left bank angle.[7] At 18:38, 55 seconds after take-off, Flight 8509's left wing dragged along the ground, then the aircraft plunged into the ground at a speed of between 250 and 300 knots, in a 40 pitch down and 90 left bank attitude.[2] The aircraft exploded on impact.[7]

Aftermath
After the investigation, the United Kingdom's Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) issued recommendations to Korean Air to revise its training program and company culture, to promote a more free atmosphere between the captain and the first officer.
]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Cargo_Flight_8509]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATZFelsf0Sk

Korea has improved a lot but its advancement is down to forced intervention and instruction from the west. Without anglo-saxon input Korea would be nowhere, because its culture is naturally backward.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 03:47:51 am by Sagi Keun »


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2021, 10:50:21 am »
Korea has improved a lot but its advancement is down to forced intervention and instruction from the west.
You do realize that in the West, they had to improve a lot due to forced intervention and instruction. This was due to a string of disasters in the west that resulted from similar problems.

Of course, bigots like you don't know that because you don't bother to research anything and just follow stereotypes due to your ignorance.

Quote
The apparent hesitation of the flight engineer and the first officer to challenge Veldhuyzen van Zanten further. The official investigation suggested that this might have been due not only to the captain's seniority in rank, but also to his being one of the most respected pilots working for the airline.[10][57] This view is questioned by Jan Bartelski, a former KLM captain and the president of the International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations (IFALPA), who knew both officers and believes this explanation to be inconsistent with his knowledge of their personalities. The first officer had intervened when Veldhuyzen van Zanten first opened the throttles, but had then failed to do so on the second occasion. Although the flight engineer had indeed asked the captain whether or not the Pan Am was clear of the runway, he seemed reassured by the captain's answer. The co-pilots had clearly challenged the captain's decisions, but were not insistent enough to convince him to abort the attempted takeoff.[58]
Now it is under dispute, but KLM was obviously trying to avoid responsibility. \

Quote
While the totalizer fuel gauge issue might have contributed to the crew's confusion toward the end of the flight, the NTSB report emphasized that the captain should never have allowed such a situation to develop in the first place. The NTSB made the following recommendation to specifically address that concern:

Issue an operations bulletin to all air carrier operations inspectors directing them to urge their assigned operators to ensure that their flightcrews are indoctrinated in principles of flight deck resource management, with particular emphasis on the merits of participative management for captains and assertiveness training for other cockpit crewmembers. (Class II, Priority Action) (X-79-17)

This last NTSB recommendation following the incident, addressing flight deck resource management problems, was the genesis for major changes in the way airline crewmembers were trained. This new type of training addressed behavioral management challenges such as poor crew coordination, loss of situational awareness, and judgment errors frequently observed in aviation accidents. It is credited with launching the crew resource management[11] (CRM) revolution in airline training. Within weeks of the NTSB recommendation, NASA held a conference to bring government and industry experts together to examine the potential merits of this training.[12]

United Airlines instituted the industry's first CRM for pilots in 1981. This program is now used throughout the world, prompting some to call the United 173 accident one of the most important in aviation history.[13] The NTSB Air Safety Investigator who wrote the CRM recommendation was aviation psychologist Alan Diehl.[14][15]

The First Air Flight crash (2011)
Quote
The first officer was aware that the aircraft was off course to the right and heading for the hill east of the airport. He tried to warn the captain 18 times, using multiple different variations of phrasing, but failed to find a way to convey the urgency of the situation and make the captain change his course of action.[8] After the ground proximity warning system issued a 'sink rate' warning, the captain finally commanded a go-around, but there was insufficient distance from terrain to avoid the collision.[4]

And of course, the Fairchild AFB crash in 1994

Quote
The accident investigation concluded that the crash was primarily attributable to Holland's personality and behavior, USAF leaders' inadequate reactions to the previous incidents involving Holland, and the sequence of events and aircrew response during the final flight of the aircraft. Holland's disregard for procedures governing the safe operation of the B-52 aircraft that he commanded and the absence of firm and consistent corrective action by his superior officers allowed Holland to believe that he could conduct his flight in an unsafe manner, culminating with the slow, steeply banked, 360 turn around the control tower.[2]

The other environmental factors involved, including the addition of a new maneuver (the 360 turn around the tower), inadequate pre-flight involvement of Wolff, and the distractions from the base shooting four days prior, combined with Holland's unsafe and risk-taking piloting behavior to produce conditions favorable for the crash to occur. The final factor, according to the USAF investigation report, was the 10-knot (19 km/h) wind and its effect on the maneuvers required to achieve the intended flightpath in relation to the ground.[2]

Are these due to Western culture?

Anyone who knows anything knows that this phenomenon is GLOBAL for pilots. The accidents that KAL was experiencing were taking place within the same general timeframe as incidents in the U.S. and the West. Every country suffers from this problem because the thing pilots fear more than the pilot not listening to the first officer is the pilot and the first officer arguing over everything and getting into a "mine's bigger than yours" so yes, pilots and co-pilots around the world deal with this issue.

Quote
Without anglo-saxon input Korea would be nowhere, because its culture is naturally backward.
These would be the same Anglo-Saxons who invaded various countries, viewed lands as existing for their own selfish benefit, and engaged in race-based slavery?

I think if you asked the various peoples of the world, who would they rather have on the planet- The Anglo-Saxons who invaded their lands and killed their families OR the Koreans who stuck to themselves, they'd all take the Koreans.

Let me guess, you're one of those people who thinks that somehow they should be listened to because you happen to have the same nationality as some inventor who died 100 years ago and that you somehow are linked to that?


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1728

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2021, 11:49:56 am »
I can't remember a time in my life when I wasn't dealing with airplanes, airports, air force or airline personnel of some sort. Believe it or not, despite living in the tropics and being old, there are some things on which I am quite knowledgeable.


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2021, 01:07:48 pm »
Without anglo-saxon input Korea would be nowhere, because its culture is naturally backward.

ok this is ****ing racist


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2021, 01:30:47 pm »
It's not just that he's racist, he's also wrong. The issue of CRM is one that cuts across cultures and has affected airlines in many different countries, hence why they all had to work on it and train it. This idea that ONLY Koreans deal with this issue is not supported by the facts.

Some people apparently think that in every other airline, First Officers/Co-Pilots are constantly pointing out any mistake and the Captain is just like "Right you are!" and there's no ego or sensitivity or anything. The record of aviation accidents throughout the years show this isn't the case at all. It really is a problem ALL airlines have to deal with.


  • Sagi Keun
  • Veteran

    • 107

    • May 10, 2018, 11:47:23 am
    • Los Angeles
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2021, 02:45:31 pm »
ok this is ****ing racist

Hark at him   :laugh: . did you just pause for breath from your decades-long diatribe against Korea to say that?

Quote
the United Kingdom's Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) issued recommendations to Korean Air

Its not racist if it's correct though, is it?

You will note that the United Kingdom is anglo-saxon 

 
Quote
It really is a problem ALL airlines have to deal with.

Especially Korea though..., by a large margin, because they received technology practically overnight and missed out all the long developmental process that preceded it.

Quote
Korean Air Flight 801 (KE801, KAL801) was a scheduled international passenger flight operated by Korean Air. The flight crashed on August 6, 1997, ..The NTSB was critical of the flight crew's monitoring of the approach, and even more critical of why the first officer and flight engineer did not challenge the captain for his errors. Even before the accident, Korean Air's Crew Resource Management program was already attempting to promote a free atmosphere between the flight crew, requiring the first officer and flight engineer to challenge the captain if they felt concerned.[1]:59 However, the flight crew only began to challenge the captain six seconds before impact, when the first officer urged the captain to make a missed approach. According to the cockpit voice recorder (CVR), the flight crew had suggested to the captain that he made a mistake, but did not explicitly warn him.[15] The flight crew had the opportunity to be more aggressive in his challenge and the first officer even had the opportunity to take over control of the aircraft and execute a missed approach himself, which would have prevented the accident, but he did not do this. Despite examining Korean Air's safety culture and previous incidents, the NTSB was unable to determine the exact reasons why the flight crew failed to challenge the captain, but at the same time noted that "problems associated with subordinate officers challenging a captain are well known." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_801

Quote
Korean Air's problem at the time was not old planes or poor crew training. "What they were struggling with was a cultural legacy, that Korean culture is hierarchical," he said.

"You are obliged to be deferential toward your elders and superiors in a way that would be unimaginable in the U.S." he added. That's dangerous when it comes to modern airplanes, said Gladwell, because such sophisticated machines are designed to be piloted by a crew that works together as a team of equals, remaining unafraid to point out mistakes or disagree with a captain.

To Gladwell, this may have explained why Korean Air Flight 801 crashed into a hill
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/130709-asiana-flight-214-crash-korean-airlines-culture-outliers
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 02:50:46 pm by Sagi Keun »


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2021, 03:35:44 pm »
You will note that the United Kingdom is anglo-saxon

Yes, Anglo-Saxons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_European_Airways_Flight_548
Quote
That Captain Key was suffering from a heart condition.
The presence of Captain Collins on the flight deck might have been a distraction.
The lack of crew training on how to manage pilot incapacitation.
The low flying-experience level of Second Officer Keighley.
Apparent crew unawareness regarding the effects of an aircraft configuration change.
Crew unawareness regarding the stall protection systems and the cause of the event.
The absence of a baulk mechanism to prevent droop retraction at too low an airspeed.

There are also other British aircraft related accidents that were due to pilot error or poor safety procedures. Were these due to Anglo-Saxon culture?


Quote
Korean Air's problem at the time was not old planes or poor crew training. "What they were struggling with was a cultural legacy, that Korean culture is hierarchical," he said.

"You are obliged to be deferential toward your elders and superiors in a way that would be unimaginable in the U.S." he added. That's dangerous when it comes to modern airplanes, said Gladwell, because such sophisticated machines are designed to be piloted by a crew that works together as a team of equals, remaining unafraid to point out mistakes or disagree with a captain.

To Gladwell, this may have explained why Korean Air Flight 801 crashed into a hill
Is Malcolm Gladwell a pilot? The way he's talking just doesn't make sense.

https://www.salon.com/2008/12/05/askthepilot301/
https://www.businessinsider.com/blogger-dismantles-malcolm-gladwell-ethnic-theory-of-plane-crashes-2013-7

Quote
Especially Korea though..., by a large margin, because they received technology practically overnight and missed out all the long developmental process that preceded it.
This ignores the thousands of flights that KAL undertook without incident. "By a large margin" isn't that big of a margin due to the safety of air travel in general. KAL could have a crash rate 200% that of other airlines and it would mean a difference of 8 vs. 4.

All airlines were dealing with this and other safety issues in that time. KAL was not alone. Other airlines continue to deal with it.

Anyone who knows anything about airplanes and pilots knows that you aren't going to have an egalitarian setup ever. The pilot is the pilot and the co-pilots are not going to be eager to start a fight in the middle of a flight.


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1728

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2021, 03:53:38 pm »
Crew resource management (CRM) has been built on past incidents and what was learned from them. It all boils down to equality of communication regardless of position. It is integral to the training that those in the higher regions of the pecking order are willing to listen, not hear, the opinions of others.

Whether one likes it or not, it is a fact that in Asian societies subordinates bow to superiors, literally and figuratively. It is a bigger problem here than in Western societies. Korea is as bad as any other country for this mindset. 300 high school kids drowned on the Suwol because the captain told them to stay in their rooms.

At Air Canada 1st officers have a space on their monthly bid packages to write the name of any captain they do not want to fly with. A reason is not necessary. A captain who gets a few of those mentions is brought in for a discussion.

Asiana 214 could have been avoided easily. In fact should have, had it not been for the "I'm higher than him" attitude, or "He's higher than me" if you would. The cowardice and "It's not my fault, it was the XYZ..." of the pilots was disturbing, disgusting and so very Korean.

Air Ontario 1363 should never have happened. In fact, it led to changes in CRM.   

There are too many occurrences........


Re: The truth about KAL Flight 007
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2021, 04:03:16 pm »
Ok whose alt is this? Kimchidork? Northdork?