Read 1516 times

Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2021, 10:22:40 am »
I'm on a Civ6 kick these days so, to put China's performance in the following categories:

Cultural Victory - not a chance in hell. China would probably score incredibly low here, not even Chinese people really embrace 'modern' Chinese culture; iPhones, Gucci and trips to 1st world Western countries are still what most mainlanders want.

Science Victory - nope, China's education system DOES NOT encourage innovation, critical thinking or creativity. Stealing teach and copying will only take you so far and for so long.

Domination Victory - Tied with Religion to be the least likely of any.

Religious - See above.

Diplomacy - Moderate threat since diplomatic strength can be bought, but again, it takes tremendous capital to buy and sustain a small amount of influence. It's simply not a sustainable model, particularly in recent years where businesses are slowly realizing that it's more trouble than it's
worth to pander to the CCP.
But what if Gandhi nukes the U.S.?

Also, the AI would steal from me and eventually eclipse me in tech late game on some difficulties.

But yeah, even Korea is generating more culture per turn with the Hallyu wildcard policy.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 10:25:38 am by Mr.DeMartino »


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1634

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2021, 10:53:17 am »
Do you honestly think you’ll see China surpass the United States within your lifetime?

In economic global influence absolutely. I am living in the middle of it and remember not so long ago, less than a decade, when there was virtually no Chinese presence of any significance at all.

English is the universal language.

This is true. But this too can change given enough time.

The USA has been #1 for as long as anyone can remember.

Really? A ridiculous statement. In my lifetime the USA has spent considerable time tied for #1. Remember the USSR? It took Ronnie Reagan, Pope John Paul II, Lech Walensa and untold billions of $$ to bring that wall down.

That’s unlikely to change within the next 100 years.

I seriously doubt that as I see changes now because I am living in them. China's Belt and Road initiative are working...and Africa...well, China is running much of that continent too.

Highly unlikely.



  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1634

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2021, 12:59:54 pm »
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/china-taliban-ties-warming-ahead-103333454.html

Interesting

China's ties to Taliban warm ahead of US leaving Afghanistan

Thu., July 29, 2021, 9:02 a.m.

BEIJING (AP) — China’s foreign minister met Wednesday with a delegation of high-level Taliban officials as ties between them warm ahead of the U.S. pullout from Afghanistan.

A photo posted on the ministry’s website showed Wang Yi posing with senior Taliban leader Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar and his delegation in the city of Tianjin, then sitting down to talks. The highly conspicuous show of friendliness had the appearance of a diplomatic mission at a time when the Taliban are craving legitimacy.

Wang said China respects Afghan sovereign independence and territorial integrity and always adheres to non-interference in Afghanistan’s internal affairs.

He said the hasty withdrawal of the U.S. and NATO “reveals the failure of America’s policies and offers the Afghan people an important opportunity to stabilize and develop their own country.”

While no agenda was announced for the meeting, China has an interest in pushing the Taliban to deliver on peace talks or at least reduce the level of violence as they gobble up territory from Afghan government forces.

China and Afghanistan share a narrow border high in the remote Wakhan Valley, and China has long been concerned about a possible spillover of Islamic militancy into its formerly volatile Xinjiang region. China has also signed deals for oil, gas and copper mining in Afghanistan, although those have long been dormant.

“The Taliban are a pivotal military and political force in Afghanistan and are expected to play an important role in the in process of peace, reconciliation and reconstruction," Wang said.

China, Wang said, hopes the Taliban will put the nation's and the people's interests first and focus on peace talks, set peace goals, establish a “positive image" and work for unity among all factions and ethnic groups.

Wang also said China hopes the Taliban will “deal resolutely" with the East Turkistan Islamic Movement, a group China claims is leading a push for independence in Xinjiang, but which many experts doubt even exists in any operational form.

The heads of the Taliban Religious Council and the Propaganda Committee were also on the trip.

The U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan by Aug. 31 is seen as a boon to China, Washington's chief strategic competitor, which has long resented the presence of U.S. troops in what it considers its own backyard.

If the Taliban do topple the U.S.-backed central government, China could gain a strategic corridor allowing it and long-time ally Pakistan to bring further pressure against common rival India.

Baradar's visit comes shortly after Pakistan’s foreign minister and intelligence chief made their trips to China.

Pakistan is seen as key to peace in Afghanistan. The Taliban leadership is headquartered in Pakistan and Islamabad has used its leverage, which it says is now waning, to press the Taliban to talk peace.

While the Tianjin meeting could be seen as a snub at the U.S., Washington has been meeting with China and Russia to produce statements calling on the Taliban to enter into a peace deal.

Zalmay Khalilzad, Washington’s point person in talks aimed at ending decades of war in Afghanistan, also made a brief visit to Pakistan earlier this month as relations between Islamabad and Kabul reached a new low.

That has fed perceptions that the U.S. is engaged in stepped-up efforts to obtain a peace deal ahead of the Aug. 31 deadline that also includes China.

After U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman met Wang in Tianjin on Monday, she and the State Department included Afghanistan on the list of “areas of global interest" that the U.S. and China could cooperate on.

The Associated Press


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6781

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2021, 01:12:06 pm »
Instead of copying a pasting the whole thing, a link with a couple of the most pertinent sentences and/or a TL;DR is what most forum readers would prefer. Why? Because the font is more readable at the original source. The only time it would be advantageous to do the whole thing is if it’s behind a paywall. (Which in this case it’s not.)


Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2021, 01:20:26 pm »
Everyone gets in bed with the Tali-ban at some point. Then they end up getting bit by the Tali-ban. China will be no different.


  • Adel
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1323

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2021, 01:30:05 pm »
Welcome to your life. There's no turning back. Even while we sleep. We will find you. Acting on your best behaviour. Turn your back on mother nature. Everybody wants to rule the world.


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1634

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2021, 01:33:16 pm »
Instead of copying a pasting the whole thing, a link with a couple of the most pertinent sentences and/or a TL;DR is what most forum readers would prefer. Why? Because the font is more readable at the original source. The only time it would be advantageous to do the whole thing is if it’s behind a paywall. (Which in this case it’s not.)

Sorry man, I didn't think of that. I don't know what a paywall is :-)


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4972

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2021, 01:21:42 am »
Welcome to your life. There's no turning back. Even while we sleep. We will find you. Acting on your best behaviour. Turn your back on mother nature. Everybody wants to rule the world.
Exactly what I was thinking.


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1634

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2021, 11:58:00 am »
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/china-warns-uk-carrier-strike-230627281.html

The UK is sailing a carrier group through international waters and China is upset and warning them.


Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2021, 02:19:22 pm »
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/china-warns-uk-carrier-strike-230627281.html

The UK is sailing a carrier group through international waters and China is upset and warning them.

The US called the CCP's bluff on this not too long ago by sailing a massive aircraft carrier, or. something, into the South China sea. After all the CCP's bluster and threats of war, when push came to shove, they were left with egg on their face and did jack.

The cowardice you can expect from the CCP is that they'll randomly arrest a British foreign national or two living in West Taiwan.


Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2021, 06:52:55 am »
China can't compete on the cultural/moral space with the U.S., despite America's many flaws.

This is absurd. China is thousands of years ahead on evolved social technologies. America until recently never existed and has no real moral philosophy except that which is imbedded Christianity.


Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2021, 07:16:28 am »
When, not if, will China displace the USA as the world's superpower?

While the USA is navel-gazing and hyper-involved in self-indulgent inconsequential meaningless minutia, China is taking over the world without ever firing a shot. It's brilliant. But is it good? I think not.

Lots of uneducated/biased take on China in the English world, let’s clear things up…

China has been the world’s largest economy, or second largest, for thousands of years (Madison Project data). What has happened in the last 300 years, a relatively short piece of history, has been the Anglo-expansion (UK/US/AU/CA/NZ), and the British and American empires. The prerequisite for this global hegemony was the destruction and enslavement of the previously largest economy: China (see Century of Humiliation). What we’re seeing now is just a return to normal, a reversion to the mean. There were reasons why China succeeded/survived for 3K years, and those deep factors have not changed, and are now re-revealing themselves. Yes, China is returning at a speed which nobody can keep up with, and at this point is vastly ahead of the United States in many if not most ways (America is actually quite primitive, especially in regards to social technology). And what’s more, China is just getting started, while the American empire is old and society quite rotten. So yes, it’s a matter of when not if.

But in observing this, the cliche thing English speakers always do is to project their culture (exceptionalism, manifest destiny, supremacism, evangelism) onto China. But China simply has no philosophical tradition in these pursuits. It has been the biggest economy on the planet multiple times, yet never got into ships and genocided/enslaved people like the English. This is just biased and not smart, stop talking about yourself and start talking about China. But before you can do that, you have to get out of your English propaganda box and actually learn something about the real China. Most people in the English/Western world don’t want to do that, and instead want to keep hurling their “Yellow Peril” racial prejudices as if it’s still the 19th or early 20th century.

Anyhow, having Chinese influence back in the world seems likely to be a good thing. Global Anglo-totalitarianism is breaking, and competitive free markets are returning. If Western ideas are so great, they can complete and we’ll see what works best. Also, we’re talking about the country with the most evolved moral philosophies in the world, secular moral philosophy (Taoism, Confucianism) which hasn’t gone around the world creating wars and pathologically lying for profits. If anyone can solve the world’s bigger problems it’s China. As Einstein said, we can’t solve current problems with the thinking which created them (Western); we need totally new thinking. China has that.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 07:23:44 am by KimchiNinja »


Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2021, 08:14:45 am »
Anyhow, having Chinese influence back in the world seems likely to be a good thing. Global Anglo-totalitarianism is breaking, and competitive free markets are returning. If Western ideas are so great, they can complete and we’ll see what works best. Also, we’re talking about the country with the most evolved moral philosophies in the world, secular moral philosophy (Taoism, Confucianism) which hasn’t gone around the world creating wars and pathologically lying for profits. If anyone can solve the world’s bigger problems it’s China. As Einstein said, we can’t solve current problems with the thinking which created them (Western); we need totally new thinking. China has that.
If Chinese thinking is so great, why is only one party allowed to rule, without any vote, and why does that party prevent other philosophies from testing it?

"Chinese philosophy" (as in applied CCP philosophy) is like Chinese Martial Arts. A bunch of puffed up nonsense that is terrified to face anything from the outside because they might lose. It needs the kind of beatdown that Chinese MMA athletes are delivering to all those fake "masters".


Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2021, 08:39:16 am »
If Chinese thinking is so great, why is only one party allowed to rule, without any vote, and why does that party prevent other philosophies from testing it?

This is just biased and not smart, stop talking about yourself and start talking about China. But before you can do that, you have to get out of your English propaganda box and actually learn something about the real China. Most people in the English/Western world don’t want to do that.

Again, my above point.

It’s your job to educate you, and you clearly aren’t going to do that. Meanwhile, China will keep existing. You’re left behind in your bubble of self-imposed ignorance and delusion, pushing the same old 20th century “democracy” evangelism.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4972

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2021, 06:04:54 am »
Free Tibet!


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1634

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2021, 11:56:38 am »
"...yet never got into ships and genocided/enslaved people like the English..."

The huge majority of Chinese people are enslaved right now. They have no freedoms. I've lived there and worked there. It is not the paradise you seem to espouse.


Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2021, 12:28:46 pm »
If Western ideas are so great, they can complete and we’ll see what works best.

If Chinese thinking is so great, why is only one party allowed to rule, without any vote, and why does that party prevent other philosophies from testing it?

It’s your job to educate you, and you clearly aren’t going to do that. Meanwhile, China will keep existing. You’re left behind in your bubble of self-imposed ignorance and delusion, pushing the same old 20th century “democracy” evangelism.
Actually, it's your job to substantiate your claim and also to answer my point which directly contradicts your point.

Your rhetorical parlor trick to claim victory without having to state any facts won't work here.


  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 901

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Sierra Leone
Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2021, 12:32:21 pm »

If Chinese thinking is so great, why is only one party allowed to rule, without any vote, and why does that party prevent other philosophies from testing it?


There are a number of possibilities for this:

1/ The CCP does not want a four year election cycle with the vote buying, corruption and policy one-eighties that come with it.

2/ The CCP does not want to waste US$14,000,000,000 on elections every four years.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/most-expensive-election-ever

3/ The CCP does not want political lobbyists perverting what is best for the overall population. (To the tune of US$3,490,000,000 (2020))
https://www.statista.com/statistics/257337/total-lobbying-spending-in-the-us/

4/ The CCP does not want populist interest groups deciding what and who is best for the country.

Do you need any more reasons?


Re: China will rule the world
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2021, 01:19:38 pm »
There are a number of possibilities for this:

1/ The CCP does not want a four year election cycle with the vote buying, corruption and policy one-eighties that come with it.

2/ The CCP does not want to waste US$14,000,000,000 on elections every four years.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/most-expensive-election-ever

3/ The CCP does not want political lobbyists perverting what is best for the overall population. (To the tune of US$3,490,000,000 (2020))
https://www.statista.com/statistics/257337/total-lobbying-spending-in-the-us/

4/ The CCP does not want populist interest groups deciding what and who is best for the country.

Do you need any more reasons?
Democracy comes in other forms than that of the United States. If a party cannot have legal opposition and permit them to hold office, then it is nto competing.

I didn't make a claim that democracy was best, only that OP claimed that Western thinking should be able to handle competition if it is so great, to which my retort is the same should apply to Eastern thinking/Chinese thinking.