Read 4084 times

  • fka
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1097

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Quote
Not to go all white knight, but seriously, we have a bunch of men here telling each other that mothers don't need cars to take of their family. There is something about that which should give anyone with common sense pause.

No, we have one man (me) telling another man (you) that the necessity of private car ownership diminishes based on factors such as pedestrian infrastructure, density of retail and other services, access to public transit, extent and efficiency of online retail and government services, and the prevalence and affordability of alternatives to private car ownership, such as taxis, rideshare services, rental agencies and car-sharing programmes (such as SoCar and Green Car).
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 03:06:34 pm by fka »


  • fka
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1097

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
i have absolutely no idea how you guys went from aristocrat's "lethal injections for drunk drivers" (i'm paraphrasing, here) to d'tino's "mothers with coupons" bit

did someone say we should ban cars (or mothers or coupons)?

I said that there was little reason to own a private car in a major Korean city, which made drunk driving even more inexcusable. This got translated by Martino as "No one should ever own any kind of motor vehicle, especially mothers."


Depending on where they lived, savviness with online shopping and a couple other factors, someone in the situation you're describing would likely see a car as a greater necessity than a single person. I have never disputed that. Still, I don't think it contradicts my point, now offered for the third time: "According to the criteria applied by researchers when assessing the extent of car dependency in a given area, the necessity of a private automobile is extremely low in large Korean cities."

If you want to counter a phantom argument of mine, in which I maintain that the desirability of a car is exactly equal for single people and large families, disabled and able-bodied people, business owners and salaried workers, carry on as you've been doing. If you want to counter my actual point, which has been presented three times now, then supply some data.

Yes, your point applies theoretically to certain kinds of people, in theory, with little regard for their individual circumstances. No one is disputing that a significant % of people don't need cars.

I disagree with "extremely low."


I said that there was little reason to own a private car in a major Korean city, which made drunk driving even more inexcusable. This got translated by Martino as "No one should ever own any kind of motor vehicle, especially mothers."
It's not about the inexcusability of drunk driving, it's about punishments that are crippling and affect not just the offender but others as well.


  • fka
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1097

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
I wasn't trying to revive that argument, just answering Tyler's question about how we got to coupons and imaginary bans on mothers driving cars.


  • fka
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1097

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Yes, your point applies theoretically to certain kinds of people, in theory, with little regard for their individual circumstances. No one is disputing that a significant % of people don't need cars.

I disagree with "extremely low."

Well, I think Korean cities probably rank among the least car-dependent in the developed world, based on the criteria usually applied to make such assessments. However, I'll make allowances for atypical neighborhoods and change the label from "extremely low" to "low". Mothers aren't banned from driving, and other families get by fine without a car. Can we wrap this up now?


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7300

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
YAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWW WWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 680

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
https://www.rockethq.com/learn/personal-finances/how-much-should-you-spend-on-groceries-v2

Correction, it says "on food" which included eating out. Groceries was half of that. Of course that doesn't include things like detergent, soap, toilet paper, paper towels, etc.

Do you even know what couponing is?
https://www.moneycrashers.com/coupons-from-casual-to-extreme/
I'm deferring to those I know who do have kids, a wife and elderly relatives. They all seem to go with cars. It's not hard to figure out why.

Notice you don't see many mother of 2-3 kids on here chiming in with "Yeah, we don't need cars!" Think you might want to, I don't know, hedge your bets on this whole "cars are unnecessary" thing until you speak to the primary caregivers and ones who usually maintain a household, do those errands, spend more time with the kids, etc.? You know, the ones pushing the stroller 5 days a week because they have to, not just a couple hours on the weekend for fun? The ones managing the kid's hagwon schedule and all their play times with their friends and them wanting to go to the movies with 4 other friends?

Not to go all white knight, but seriously, we have a bunch of men here telling each other that mothers don't need cars to take of their family. There is something about that which should give anyone with common sense pause.

Notice how all I did was calling you out on some BS without mentioning my take on the issue. But go ahead and argue with yourself for another couple of pages.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5002

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
1) When it could be a lot worse and isn't even bad, then yes it does negate it. It's an empty first-world bitch.
2) The person freaking out is the one calling it a nightmarish hellscape and then doubling down on it.
This very statement proves your ignorance of smart shopping.
1) Reading doesn't teach you negotiation, sizing, how it looks and fits, being calm when making major purchases, etc.
2) That's not how super couponing works. It means targeting essentials and taking advantage of mega deals when they come around, buying in bulk, and then using those products for the rest of the year. Staples like detergent, soap, shampoo, cereal, pasta and pasta sauce, etc.

A family of four averages something like $8K in groceries and such. Smart couponers can get that down to like, $2K.
Nope. A bad experience is a bad experience. Just because it's not as bad as your misfortunate life choices doesn't make it any better.

You seem to be writing about and maybe even for people who are either mentally or emotionally disturbed. No rational person needs help, experience, or training to try on clothes and know whether they fit or not. And it's pretty easy to stay calm during a major purchase--just do some research beforehand. In other words, reading.

Want to get a good deal on a car? Read up on how to buy a car via email, follow the instructions and voila.

As for extreme couponing, I'll leave that to the old lady who lived in a shoe. I fondly remember double coupon Wednesdays at King Soopers but I've given up the kinds of foods that are usually promoted with coupons. A brief perusal of the online Publix weekly shopper--reading--and I'm good to go.

One can make saving money into a time-consuming hobby but it's not necessary.

"Something like"--your precision is less than persuasive.





  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
A family of four averages something like $8K in groceries and such. Smart couponers can get that down to like, $2K.
What?  8k per month for groceries and stuff?  :huh:
Where does this average family of 4 live? Mars?

My family of 3 lives very comfy on about 10-20% of that.
I mean, I even buy artisanal chocolates and cookies and stuff (from some shady character with on-base girl-guide cookie connections. Not cheap. Not cheap at all.)


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1669

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
did someone say we should ban cars (or mothers or coupons)?

yes, fka said that verbatim, and now martino is bravely defending the integrity of cars (or mothers or coupons)


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2888

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
What?  8k per month for groceries and stuff?  :huh:
Where does this average family of 4 live? Mars?


The place he gets most of his facts from, somewhere anatomical ...

However, in the real world that you and I live in, expenses for a family of four living in Seoul are 2,700,000 W (not including rent) according to this site, updated Sept 2020 https://www.internations.org/go/moving-to-south-korea/living

or up to 4,414,561 (though these folks seem to eat out a lot) here https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Seoul

This site gives the cost for a family of four at 4,755,789 but that includes rent: https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/seoul


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2719

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
"Extreme Couponing". There's a show just made for Korean TV. Follow some minor K-Celebs as they go about their day buying stuff using coupons. Watch as hilarity ensues as one K-Celeb tries to buy a reduced 36-roll toilet paper but oh sh!t they've brought the coupon for the 2 x 5L bottles of detergent. Engage laughter track and close-ups of every other "Celeb" watching from the TV studio. Cue multiple angles of K-Celeb looking for that toilet paper coupon and finally finds in their back pocket. Challenge successful and 10 mins of TV viewing done. Time to sell my idea to some TV executives.


  • fka
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1097

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
"Extreme Couponing". There's a show just made for Korean TV. Follow some minor K-Celebs as they go about their day buying stuff using coupons. Watch as hilarity ensues as one K-Celeb tries to buy a reduced 36-roll toilet paper but oh sh!t they've brought the coupon for the 2 x 5L bottles of detergent. Engage laughter track and close-ups of every other "Celeb" watching from the TV studio. Cue multiple angles of K-Celeb looking for that toilet paper coupon and finally finds in their back pocket. Challenge successful and 10 mins of TV viewing done. Time to sell my idea to some TV executives.

Boing boing boing!

Screen caption: Can she lift the pack?

Celebrity commentator: "These multipacks of toilet paper are heavy."

Other celebs: "Oooooooooohhhhhh... ."

Everyone waits with baited breath. Couponing celeb lifts the pack off the shelf.

Slide whistle

Explosions of laughter as the toilet paper tumbles to the floor.

Celeb panel: "Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!"

Screen caption: It's so heavy! The toilet paper is heavy! It's not light! It's heavy!

Massive audience applause.

Extreme close-ups of the celebrity panel stuffing their mouths with brown, greasy noodles.

The next day...

TV exec keeps a discreet eye on subway passengers during the morning commute. By his rudimentary count, at least 30% are watching the toilet paper clip on their phones. The money doesn't hurt, he muses to himself, but this, this right here, this is what gets me out of bed every morning.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 08:55:34 am by fka »


What?  8k per month for groceries and stuff?  :huh:
Where does this average family of 4 live? Mars?

My family of 3 lives very comfy on about 10-20% of that.
I mean, I even buy artisanal chocolates and cookies and stuff (from some shady character with on-base girl-guide cookie connections. Not cheap. Not cheap at all.)
8k per year


The place he gets most of his facts from, somewhere anatomical ...
I cited it, and it was 8k per annum.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 680

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
8k per year

How about getting it down to 2k with super mega awesome couponing? That's the part I called complete BS.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
8k per year
Oh, okay, I would agree with that. That's much more reasonable.
I'm not sure why I automatically read that as per month.


How about getting it down to 2k with super mega awesome couponing? That's the part I called complete BS.
Are you saying this because you regularly use coupons and have tried to get into couponing? Or are you saying this as someone who just walks into the store and the only sale you're familiar with is Black Friday?

Just because YOU aren't familiar with something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 680

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
Are you saying this because you regularly use coupons and have tried to get into couponing? Or are you saying this as someone who just walks into the store and the only sale you're familiar with is Black Friday?

Just because YOU aren't familiar with something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

So provide evidence that it is indeed possible to go from 8k annual expenses to 2k with couponing. Or even if just one person in modern history has done that. Back up your claim or else it's just a figure you pulled out of your arse.