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POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« on: June 08, 2021, 12:38:53 pm »
As a developed nation are South Korea's hygiene standards up to scratch?


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2021, 12:44:29 pm »
Leading question that doesn't deal with what my assertion is.

How's this-
"Do you think measures such as washing hands thoroughly with soap, covering your mouth when coughing, using disinfectants when cleaning, not sharing meals, and spitting in public have a significant effect on outbreaks of disease OR do you think they are mostly performative gestures that have more marginal impacts?


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2021, 12:49:19 pm »
How's this-
"Do you think measures such as washing hands thoroughly with soap, covering your mouth when coughing, using disinfectants when cleaning, not sharing meals, and spitting in public have a significant effect on outbreaks of disease OR do you think they are mostly performative gestures that have more marginal impacts?

You know how to create a poll, right? Be my guest.


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2021, 12:59:21 pm »
You know how to create a poll, right? Be my guest.
I don't think the debate would be served by dueling polls. I do think if you want to do a serious poll, you could at least ask the correct question and at least try to have the poll be worded in an unbiased fashion.


  • tylerthegloob
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Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2021, 01:03:10 pm »
the big ones for me are washing hands and covering your mouth/nose when you cough/sneeze. im not sure how different they are between the US and Korea though. ive definitely seen tons of dudes walk out of bathrooms in bars in the US without washing. i assume those are pretty important though. and i always wash my hands :)

using disinfectants when cleaning? i have no idea. no idea if its significantly different anywhere else and no idea how important it is re: disease prevention. (read: i'm an idiot)

sharing meals and spitting seem more like personal issues or pet peeves though. again, idk all that much about whether diseases can be transmitted by stepping in spit, but it doesn't seem all that important. is it gross? sure, but thats a different convo i think. as for sharing meals? idk as long as they aren't super sick and you aren't sharing utensils, it doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.

again, to be clear, i know nothing about this stuff

[full disclosure: i did not vote in the poll]
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Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2021, 01:22:24 pm »
I have to say I look forward to large outbreaks here, only time people care about germs. Maybe if they didn’t still teach kimchi as a cure all this wouldn’t be such an issue.


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2021, 01:28:51 pm »
I have to say I look forward to large outbreaks here, only time people care about germs. Maybe if they didn’t still teach kimchi as a cure all this wouldn’t be such an issue.
And yet, they aren't the ones with tens of thousands dead. That's "enlightened" Europe.

Maybe it's time to re-evaluate how important all this shit really is when it comes to disease prevention. And maybe, we shouldn't be so arrogant and condescending because by all accounts, they did a lot better than us and we don't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to lecturing them.


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2021, 01:30:57 pm »
And yet, they aren't the ones with tens of thousands dead. That's "enlightened" Europe.

Maybe it's time to re-evaluate how important all this shit really is when it comes to disease prevention. And maybe, we shouldn't be so arrogant and condescending because by all accounts, they did a lot better than us and we don't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to lecturing them.

Also helps to be super isolated and bar foreigners I suppose.


  • SPQR
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Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2021, 01:31:21 pm »
Yeah, I think we should copy the 'mericans & Africans and their wonderful health
practices.

You people have to open your eyes.

USofA: Cases per 1M people = 102,842
SA: Cases per 1M people = 28,329

ROK: Cases per 1M people = 2,828

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/



  • OnNut81
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Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2021, 01:39:40 pm »
Isn't this a poll on general hygiene practices in Korea rather than what affect those habits had on the spread of Covid?  I understand you could definitely connect those two for an interesting discussion, but getting away from Covid I find generally the habits of Koreans after using the can pretty appalling.  I've been in restaurants where a staff member has walked straight out of the shitter and out the door with only a glance in the mirror.  And the snot rockets on the street?  I could do without that.  Never, ever wiping down sweaty gym equipment after doing your sets?  Also, pretty repulsive in my books.  But, they do keep a clean home as far as my experience goes. 


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2021, 01:39:55 pm »
the big ones for me are washing hands and covering your mouth/nose when you cough/sneeze.
Washing hands, outside of certain specific situations, is pretty performative. Also, as was shown during the pandemic, most people don't effectively wash their hands, regardless of country.

As far as covering your mouth/nose-
1) The force involved and the lack of time to secure your hand in place means that you are going to get some significant leakage, even if you do the best of coverings. I mean, it's pretty obvious to anyone with a rudimentary concept of physics that covering your mouth is not particularly effective.
2) Unless you immediately follow-up with washing/disinfecting your hands and NOT touching anything else, you are going to spread germs, just in a different manner

Now knowing, what we know now, this should be common sense. We know that covering with your hand is pretty ineffective. We know you have to wash after, and not just wash, wash correctly. Of course, this is exactly what I said pre-pandemic and was pilloried for it. I was told that wasn't the case and "Doctors say that mouth covering is essential" and that this is why a disease would run rampant through Korea.

I think most of us would now agree covering your mouth is largely a performative gesture and that you have to be very disciplined with hand washing- something most people aren't.

My points and my argument haven't changed. They stood up to a once-a-century pandemic. Can anyone else here say the same?


  • tylerthegloob
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Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2021, 01:42:13 pm »

2) Unless you immediately follow-up with washing/disinfecting your hands and NOT touching anything else, you are going to spread germs, just in a different manner

youre supposed to cough/sneeze into the inside of your elbow, not your hands
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Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2021, 01:42:35 pm »
Also helps to be super isolated and bar foreigners I suppose.
Well that certainly does help. Can't deny that.

But that still doesn't account for the low domestic spread.

Seriously, if what all of you were claiming before was true, then even with all these measures and factors, COVID still should have spread like wildfire. It didn't.

Maybe we need to reduce the emphasis we place on these practices in terms of disease prevention.


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2021, 01:43:30 pm »
youre supposed to cough/sneeze into the inside of your elbow, not your hands
Even then, it's not the greatest seal, and you're talking about undoing decades of habit in many people. Is it better? Sure. Is it some great preventative measure? No.
 


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2021, 01:45:07 pm »
Isn't this a poll on general hygiene practices in Korea rather than what affect those habits had on the spread of Covid?  I understand you could definitely connect those two for an interesting discussion, but getting away from Covid I find generally the habits of Koreans after using the can pretty appalling.  I've been in restaurants where a staff member has walked straight out of the shitter and out the door with only a glance in the mirror.  And the snot rockets on the street?  I could do without that.  Never, ever wiping down sweaty gym equipment after doing your sets?  Also, pretty repulsive in my books.  But, they do keep a clean home as far as my experience goes. 
This is a good point. We are kind of arguing about two different things. If we want to talk a cleanliness part of hygiene, then I think that's certainly fair. On the other hand if we're talking about disinfection/disease prevention, then I think people need to adjust their view of things.


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Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2021, 01:49:37 pm »
and you're talking about undoing decades of habit in many people. Is it better? Sure.
im not talking about anything
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  • fka
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Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2021, 01:53:18 pm »
Isn't this a poll on general hygiene practices in Korea rather than what affect those habits had on the spread of Covid?  I understand you could definitely connect those two for an interesting discussion, but getting away from Covid I find generally the habits of Koreans after using the can pretty appalling.  I've been in restaurants where a staff member has walked straight out of the shitter and out the door with only a glance in the mirror.  And the snot rockets on the street?  I could do without that.  Never, ever wiping down sweaty gym equipment after doing your sets?  Also, pretty repulsive in my books.  But, they do keep a clean home as far as my experience goes.

This is basically the big moment that Martino's been waiting for - a new discussion of Korean hygiene standards that will allow him to crow about his COVID clairvoyance.  He can't separate the discussion of hygiene from some prediction that someone (or everyone) apparently made about COVID becoming a big problem here. I think it was sparked by someone complaining about being coughed on directly while on the subway, and Martino chose to derail it into a jeremiad about how only idiots think that coughing into your hands and then immediately touching stuff doesn't spread germs, which is, of course, a claim that nobody made. Ever since then, he's been pretending that everyone is arguing "Koreans should cough into their hands and then touch stuff!". Of course, it's much easier to make an argument against that than, "I wish people wouldn't cough directly into my face without making any effort to redirect whatever's coming out of their respiratory system."


« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 01:55:14 pm by fka »


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2021, 01:56:26 pm »
Well that certainly does help. Can't deny that.

But that still doesn't account for the low domestic spread.

Seriously, if what all of you were claiming before was true, then even with all these measures and factors, COVID still should have spread like wildfire. It didn't.

Maybe we need to reduce the emphasis we place on these practices in terms of disease prevention.

So explain to us why the flu was reduced by over 95%. 


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2021, 02:04:11 pm »
This is basically the big moment that Martino's been waiting for - a new discussion of Korean hygiene standards that will allow him to crow about his COVID clairvoyance.  He can't separate the discussion of hygiene from some prediction that someone (or everyone) apparently made about COVID becoming a big problem here. I think it was sparked by someone complaining about being coughed on directly while on the subway, and Martino chose to derail it into a jeremiad about how only idiots think that coughing into your hands and then immediately touching stuff doesn't spread germs, which is, of course, a claim that nobody made. Ever since then, he's been pretending that everyone is arguing "Koreans should cough into their hands and then touch stuff!". Of course, it's much easier to make an argument against that than, "I wish people wouldn't cough directly into my face without making any effort to redirect whatever's coming out of their respiratory system."
You know, instead of them making this about me. Maybe people should examine their assumptions that weren't proven correct during all of this. Maybe they should re-evaluate their takes, perhaps be a little less harsh in their assessments, and less judgmental.

Of course I will make this a bit about me. I took an unpopular stance that I genuinely thought was backed up by facts and was pilloried for it. Then the ultimate test happened and everyone else flubbed it. Yeah, I've earned it a little. Though really, all I did was just point out things that were pretty obvious.

I don't understand why it wasn't more even though. I think at least it should have been closer to 40-60 on this issue. It was pretty obvious to anyone with a brain that what I was saying was at least somewhat valid. Come to think of it, I think maybe basedcowboy or someone else did also sort of agree. Or maybe it was some other poster who posted some sneeze vid simulation that showed that yeah, covering your mouth with your hands basically does f all.


Re: POLL, South Korea's hygiene standards
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2021, 02:05:07 pm »
So explain to us why the flu was reduced by over 95%.
I don't know. Haven't really thought about it or looked into it much. Any theories?