Nationalism in children

 
Lol. Did you even read the comment you're responding to?
Those results were totally NOT  a survey.

It was a research article from EIP/GPE/EQC World Health Organization.

Also, the criteria they used was paiiiiiiiiiiinnnnfffuuullllllyyyyy detailed. Like a 30 page explanation.

Basically, it's the best possible evaluation of medical systems, as agreed on by experts in several of the relevant fields.

Certainly a far cry better than a bunch of anecdotes.

Well they obviously screwed up somewhere.  I means months to schedule a doctors appointment and then need referral to a specialist several month later in Canada versus walking into the specialist in Korea's office and getting in within 10 minutes.  Also being able to do the x ray or test right there versus having that specialist send you off somewhere else for the tests. 

One girl I know had to get an endoscopy.  Took her a few months to get into see the doctor.  Several more months to get in to see the specialist.  Then several months for the referral to the hospital to get the procedure done.  They were too cheap to give her an antithetic.  Over a year and half total before getting an uncomfortable procedure.  In the meantime if she had something wrong she would have died.  Yet here, I went in on a Tuesday to a local hospital specializing in this.  I got the appointment that Saturday.  I also said put me unconscious because a tube down my throat is too uncomfortable.   I had to pay extra but fine.  Get er done.  Korea is better hands down than Canada.  I have experienced both and still talk to friends and family back home who say how worse it has gotten.  Korea is quick and cheap.  Not an anecdote, but actual experience. 

antithetic

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/health-care-1.5170948

Seems like you need to take one if you are that heightened. 

"Korea?", "Korea?", "Korea?". It didn't take long before their cries went from "Korea?" to "Korea!". They were clearly frustrated and annoyed that Korean breakfast was somehow skipped in this very short video. They didn't give a crap that the Netherlands breakfast showed chocolate sprinkles or didn't seem curious in the slightest at the seemingly strange Egyptian breakfast.

Children are much more sensitive to being "left out". I mean, you could ask the children what they have for breakfast and then say your video is about breakfasts from other countries.

There were gifs of spectacular skills and athleticism and some simple rules and facts, just enough for a 4th graders attention before moving on to the next sport. I even brought a rugby and cricket ball and allowed the students to pass them around and get a feel for them.
In the same way, these boys pretty much shut off, ignored the lesson and conversed amongst themselves (till I reprimanded them) unless soccer, basketball or baseball was being shown.

The alarming thing was that the boys in question tended to respond to sports, food and culture outside Korea with... hostility. I show them cricket and they'll say "Cricket no, baseball, yes" or they'd shout down food from other countries as disgusting despite it being the first time they probably saw it. Kid, nobody is challenging you, why do you feel so threatened and insecure, particularly at such a young age? You can learn something new and still enjoy soccer, ramen and mobile games.

One look at youtube comments and you'll see this phenomenon is global and not confined to young boys. People will yell and scream over anything sport related and if it's big in their country it's a great sport and if their country doesn't care about it, a lot of people will talk shit about it.

How many times has it been said "Americans are sissies because their football players wear pads?" "World Series? Only Americans would call it that!" or Americans trashing cricket or football as boring and laughing at sissy Europeans rolling around on the field pretending to be hurt.

Kids are going to laugh at stuff. If you showed a bunch of American kids cricket, they wouldn't be all interested, they'd probably mock it. Same with curling or some Finnish lumberjacking sport.

As for food, are you seriously singling out Korean kids for looking at food and going "Ewww that looks disgusting!"

I think you're reading too much into it and I think you kind of came into it with your own chip as well. Seems like you were almost looking for a fight.

Before anyone comes with the "Maybe they're just messing with you." I too was a prankster at school and frankly, they're not that smart.

All I can say is that they must have some truly horrendous father figures at home.

Ever consider that in some ways they are mirroring your attitude towards them?

Yeah, one thing I notice here is that it's not "Hey, look at what Koreans made in history/here's an invention."

It's "Aren't we clever?" The difference is slight upon reading it, but the implications are massive.

A Canadian invented insulin. I think that's cool. It's an important discovery and it's helped..... hundreds of millions of people over the last century?

But that doesn't make me clever, nor does it make Canadians clever.

Ehhh, there's lots of people in our countries who think the same way. Heck, look at the posters here who will be like "Korea didn't invent this that or the other but my country did." Like "Okay....what does that have to do with anything? Did you invent that stuff?"

It's funny. Those types always want group credit, but the second you bring up past atrocities or war crimes or slavery they get all "I'm an individual, you can't blame me for the past. That was them, not me!!!!!!"

to Chinese food (egg rolls, chow mein, chop suey, sweet and sour chicken balls, etc).  Kids lose their shit over them.  They scream delicious and want to try them. 

Now if some more Chinese places in Korea could serve some of this.  Though I do believe there is or was a Panda Express in Lotte Dept Store in Myeong Dong?  Not as good as some ma and pa Chinese joints back home.  But beggers can't be choosers.  I haven't gotten up to Seoul since corona began.  (Jan, 2020)

Seriously? Panda Express is Chinese food?

Seems like you need to take one if you are that heightened.

Did you mean

That reminds me of a middle school class I was teaching on inventions. Pretty fun game, guess which country invented what. Then when we got to refrigerator one student said it wasn't invented by the US, it was invented by Korea (by burying kimchi in a clay pot) and of course the Korean teacher agreed...

You're both wrong. It was invented by the Persians I believe.

Forgot to mention he then cheered for the opposing team for the rest of the game

I would hesitate before giving serious weight to such a person as some sort of representative entity.

When was the last time you saw two Korean men go to a pizza place for dinner?

Mr. Pizza advertises to women because they are the only ones who bring men through the door.

This isn't 2009. Everyone eats pizza. The reason men aren't eating at Mr. Pizza is more due to it not being appropriate to get drunk there, not the food. Also, the presence of screaming children might not be the dining experience they are looking for. I think you might be overlooking some factors.

I mean, will you often see two men walk into Pizza Hut for dinner? Sure maybe the lunch buffet, but for dinner? Just the two of them? Not unless that Pizza Hut has a full service bar and a TV.

 Plenty of Korean men will get pizza at some hof or bar and chow down.

but the second you bring up past atrocities or war crimes or slavery they get all "I'm an individual, you can't blame me for the past. That was them, not me!!!!!!"

That's why I always admit to having buried native kids under my residential school. No hiding it.

EIP/GPE/EQC /WHO : publishes meticulously sourced data, carefully analyses truly vast reams of numbers and notes the exact criteria for doing so.
Produces results that governments the world over use in order to evaluate their own health departments for future policy changes.

hangook77: Well they obviously screwed up somewhere because one time... [insert weirdly self-loathing diatribe against everything Canadian], and because I know this one person who [insert random, unverifiable anecdote].

 

Antithetic

It's a real word. It's usually an adjective, meaning to "sharply contrasted in character or purpose". Could be used as a noun, I guess: an object that contracts in character or purpose with itself. Like a really bad suit, or an armoured bikini or something.

You're both wrong. [Refrigeration] was invented by the Persians I believe.

This is the problem with poorly defined terms.
There are plenty of different types of refrigerators, varying from slabs of ice buried in the dirt to keep meat cool (neolithic period), to Persian evaporative coolers, to the first refrigeration machine (Scottish), to the first electric refrigerator (US).
Of course, if you have a picture of a fridge on the ppt when you ask the question, then that narrows the correct answer down somewhat...

That's why I always admit to having buried native kids under my residential school. No hiding it.

Wow...I've told some dark jokes but damn.....that's some Brown Dwarf level shit right there.

I think you're reading too much into it and I think you kind of came into it with your own chip as well. Seems like you were almost looking for a fight.
Ever consider that in some ways they are mirroring your attitude towards them?

You know, I specifically titled this thread "Nationalism in children", not "Nationalism in Korean children". The reason I focused on Korea is because.... I spent most of my teaching career, teaching in this country as did most of the readers of this thread... this is the place to write these kinds of things.

I've never discounted that nationalism doesn't exist everywhere, I'm simply discussing the degree that it's able to hamper the learning process, based on my personal experience which incidentally, again... is in KOREA. I focused my concerns on a particular group of boys, not the entire class and others here have agreed with as they've experienced similar things.

The point was to prove that over nationalism exists on a spectrum and for those on the extreme end it makes one incredibly defensive to the point that anything not originating in your land is somehow threatening. There's also an inability to accept criticism of one's country and you're illustrating that very clearly. As is always the case with you people are "reading too much into it" when it's highlighting an issue in Korea, but are "calling it what it is" when it's criticism of the West.

Should the day come where you can admit that the South Korean education system has major problems, you'll have to lower you head in shame with the fact that South Korea will find itself in the category of EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH.

Well they obviously screwed up somewhere.  I means months to schedule a doctors appointment and then need referral to a specialist several month later in Canada versus walking into the specialist in Korea's office and getting in within 10 minutes.  Also being able to do the x ray or test right there versus having that specialist send you off somewhere else for the tests. 

One girl I know had to get an endoscopy.  Took her a few months to get into see the doctor.  Several more months to get in to see the specialist.  Then several months for the referral to the hospital to get the procedure done.  They were too cheap to give her an antithetic.  Over a year and half total before getting an uncomfortable procedure.  In the meantime if she had something wrong she would have died.  Yet here, I went in on a Tuesday to a local hospital specializing in this.  I got the appointment that Saturday.  I also said put me unconscious because a tube down my throat is too uncomfortable.   I had to pay extra but fine.  Get er done.  Korea is better hands down than Canada.  I have experienced both and still talk to friends and family back home who say how worse it has gotten.  Korea is quick and cheap.  Not an anecdote, but actual experience. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Hangook is doing his usual thing of taking HIS personal experience and outlook and applying it across the board as an absolute for everyone's experience.  As in, this is how he experienced Canadian health care in the economically depressed Maritime province where he hails from, and then applied it to the entirety of every Canadian province and city.  Just like he came here to pay off debt, so everyone else came for the same reason.  He can no longer save more than $500/month on 2.3 so no one else is able to save more than that. 

Otherwise, I think Hangook made some very good points about the insecure Canadian that votes left when the U.S. votes right because they're under the delusion the world is comparing our two countries and they desperately want international approval.  Too bad for them, the world doesn't pay nearly as much attention to Canada as it does to the U.S. 

Also, I've been stuck around too many Canadians here that annoy people from countries all over by insisting on talking about how great Canada is.  Out of the seven countries allowed to teach English here, Canadians are by far the most nationalistic on average.  Of course, as a Torontonian I get sh*t on by Canadians as well, so you get used to it. 

It's a real word. It's usually an adjective, meaning to "sharply contrasted in character or purpose". Could be used as a noun, I guess: an object that contracts in character or purpose with itself. Like a really bad suit, or an armoured bikini or something.

You know as well as I do that they meant anesthetic, haha.

Of course, as a Torontonian I get sh*t on by Canadians as well, so you get used to it.

My favourite thing is when people shit on TO and they're from Sarnia or Cornwall or something.

I'd never say it to their face, and Toronto isn't for everyone, but if they're gonna poopoo TO then............... ...... "Uh, cool bro. Cornwall is dope" said no one in the universe.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Hangook is doing his usual thing of taking HIS personal experience and outlook and applying it across the board as an absolute for everyone's experience.  As in, this is how he experienced Canadian health care in the economically depressed Maritime province where he hails from, and then applied it to the entirety of every Canadian province and city.  Just like he came here to pay off debt, so everyone else came for the same reason.  He can no longer save more than $500/month on 2.3 so no one else is able to save more than that. 

Otherwise, I think Hangook made some very good points about the insecure Canadian that votes left when the U.S. votes right because they're under the delusion the world is comparing our two countries and they desperately want international approval.  Too bad for them, the world doesn't pay nearly as much attention to Canada as it does to the U.S. 

Also, I've been stuck around too many Canadians here that annoy people from countries all over by insisting on talking about how great Canada is.  Out of the seven countries allowed to teach English here, Canadians are by far the most nationalistic on average.  Of course, as a Torontonian I get sh*t on by Canadians as well, so you get used to it. 

Not just my experience but many others.  My aunt got screwed over in Oshawa (right next to TO).  Horror stories pretty much across the country, though I do hear Alberta and BC get off more lightly cause those two provinces are quite rich and pump more of their own money into it.  I've met Canadians, mostly from Ontario who marveled at how fast the Korean health care system is.

My favourite thing is when people shit on TO and they're from Sarnia or Cornwall or something.

I'd never say it to their face, and Toronto isn't for everyone, but if they're gonna poopoo TO then............... ...... "Uh, cool bro. Cornwall is dope" said no one in the universe.

I may have related this anecdote on here before but I always found it funny. I was having a beer with a friend in The Angel Inn in NOTL when we started up a pleasant conversation with an older couple from St, Catharine's when they asked where we were from.  I said Toronto and in a pleasant and friendly manner she said "I hate Toronto."  I can't imagine, no matter what I thought of a place, ever responding like that, yet so many Canadians will just shit on T.O. without a thought of politeness when I say I'm from there.  And if I rebut them or point out some imperfection in their hometown I'm being a Toronto dick.  I was born there, my parents were born there, two of my grandparents and some great grandparents were born there.  Can I not have civic pride? 

That was pretty much just a conversation with CO2 as I'm assuming he knows the places I am talking about. 

**** toronto though. i was getting lunch at some tiny mac and cheese place in toronto and the middle aged dude behind the counter randomly(?) started chatting me up about how bad gun violence is in chicago. i honestly had no idea what to say. "yeah dude chicago sounds dangerous"

and it's not just me. i've heard this from many others. i guess canadians are just terrible at small-talk_{ok the first part is all  true but at the end i just wanted to take the piss out of hankook a little}

Also, I've been stuck around too many Canadians here that annoy people from countries all over by insisting on talking about how great Canada is.  Out of the seven countries allowed to teach English here, Canadians are by far the most nationalistic on average.  Of course, as a Torontonian I get sh*t on by Canadians as well, so you get used to it. 

Seriously can you imagine if Americans started every conversation with "did you know Michael Jordan was American" or "do you know Ben Affleck?" Not sure why Canadians get away with it.