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Nationalism in children
« on: June 03, 2021, 02:23:12 pm »
Nationalism might not be the most apt descriptor, but I'm in a bit of a hurry; this is bothering me and I need to get it off my chest so I can stop procrastinating and finish my final assignment for the semester.

Earlier this week, I did a food lesson for the 4th graders and decided to focus a bit more on culture than key expressions.

I started the lesson with a 2min video showing typical breakfasts from different countries, very short and fast-paced so it's unlikely that students would complain out of boredom. A few boys, and it's typically boys where this happens, kept repeating "Korea?", "Korea?", "Korea?". It didn't take long before their cries went from "Korea?" to "Korea!". They were clearly frustrated and annoyed that Korean breakfast was somehow skipped in this very short video. They didn't give a crap that the Netherlands breakfast showed chocolate sprinkles or didn't seem curious in the slightest at the seemingly strange Egyptian breakfast.

The previous week, I did a lesson on sports. I have a pretty awesome, if I say so myself, Powerpoint going through the top 10 most popular sports in the world. There were gifs of spectacular skills and athleticism and some simple rules and facts, just enough for a 4th graders attention before moving on to the next sport. I even brought a rugby and cricket ball and allowed the students to pass them around and get a feel for them.
In the same way, these boys pretty much shut off, ignored the lesson and conversed amongst themselves (till I reprimanded them) unless soccer, basketball or baseball was being shown.

The alarming thing was that the boys in question tended to respond to sports, food and culture outside Korea with... hostility. I show them cricket and they'll say "Cricket no, baseball, yes" or they'd shout down food from other countries as disgusting despite it being the first time they probably saw it. Kid, nobody is challenging you, why do you feel so threatened and insecure, particularly at such a young age? You can learn something new and still enjoy soccer, ramen and mobile games.

I've seen this kind of behaviour at multiple schools and with many students over the years and it's typically boys. Another interesting observation is that they tend to take new information and shape it to fit their stereotypes instead of relating it to what they know:

- Every black athlete is Usain Bolt
- Rugby is American football, not a different sport.
- Cricket is baseball, again, not a different sport.
- I can't eat spicy food
- I'm not from South Africa because I'm not black. I'm from somewhere else and the reason I've repeated "I'm from South Africa" about 300 times is purely coincidental. 
- All foods of Japanese origin is disgusting

It's cool to love your country etc. but when this inhibits or restricts you from learning something new, you have a problem, particularly at such a young age.

Before anyone comes with the "Maybe they're just messing with you." I too was a prankster at school and frankly, they're not that smart.

All I can say is that they must have some truly horrendous father figures at home.


  • njarlson
  • Adventurer

    • 36

    • March 02, 2021, 07:33:45 am
    • South Korea
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2021, 02:37:15 pm »
Stuff like that is taught and it's hard to convince a kid that what his father has told him all his life about Korea vs. other countries might not be accurate. Luckily none of my students are (outwardly) like this, but I did have one student who, any time the little cultural highlight of the English book had something about Japan, would aggressively scratch it with his pen until it was completely blacked out and write "NO JAPAN" in giant letters across the entire page. And then he would hold his ruined book up to me and say, "teacher! no Japan!" with a smile like I would be proud that he did that. I understand well the tensions that still exist between Korea and Japan, but it was worrying to see such aggressive anti-Japan behavior from an 11 year old kid who probably couldn't really understand exactly why these tensions exist or why he's being taught to hate Japan. He hears "Japan bad Korea good" and runs with it.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4057

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2021, 02:44:49 pm »
Nothing wrong with nationalism and being proud of your country.  Just don't be a dick about it and rude to others.  Don't act like you're better than others or other countries.  Treat all citizens and legal permanent residents of all races equally and everyone assimilate under one national identity.  But, screw this pure bloodedness and we are lucky to be this one race above all others nonsense. 

I rememeber being at a traditional tea shop and the Korean man running the place dressed in traditional clothing was very good at English and very proud of his countries and oldest of traditions.  That's great.  He wasn't a dick to me and he also spoke very good English.  He was happy to tell me about some Korean traditional teas and certain health benefits.  Be proud of your country, who you are, and where you come from while being nice to others. 

A side note, being Korean can be eating kimchi, wearing hanbok, while speaking Korean and embracing modern lifestyles too.  It means someone of another racial background could be considered Korean too if they are willing to reasonably assimilate into Korean culture.  (Maybe more Korean folks can read this.  Hint hint hint.) 

As for the US and Canada, many races but one shared culture and national identity.  The process of assimilation.  (This is the ideal anyways.)  Rally around the flag and be proud of your countries.  You can still fight to change the bad things within of course. 


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7265

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2021, 02:46:03 pm »
It's cool to love your country etc. but when this inhibits or restricts you from learning something new, you have a problem, particularly at such a young age.

Yeah, one thing I notice here is that it's not "Hey, look at what Koreans made in history/here's an invention."

It's "Aren't we clever?" The difference is slight upon reading it, but the implications are massive.

A Canadian invented insulin. I think that's cool. It's an important discovery and it's helped..... hundreds of millions of people over the last century?

But that doesn't make me clever, nor does it make Canadians clever.

This all boils down to an Ethnic vs Civic view of your countrymen. It's a galaxy of difference. The outgroup for Canadians allows the possibility of becoming someone in our group. Anyone can be Canadian (obviously it's not as black and white as that, but the potential is there.)

No matter what, you, nor I, will ever be Korean. EVEN with citizenship. I wish some of my students would realise that every idiot they've ever met, every adult who was shitty to them, they're of your "ilk" too. Are they clever? Are they your kinfolk? No and yes.

Drake is the most successful rapper of this generation, the most since Jay-Z or Eminem (keep in mind that I mention success, not talent. Don't start).

Hell, he's not just from Canada, he's from Toronto, my city.

Not a single iota of his success, in ANY way, shape or form has even an atom or a fleeting glance to do with me. I'm okay with that.



  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7265

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2021, 02:48:09 pm »
it was completely blacked out and write "NO JAPAN" in giant letters across the entire page. And then he would hold his ruined book up to me and say, "teacher! no Japan!" with a smile like I would be proud that he did that. I understand well the tensions that still exist between Korea and Japan, but it was worrying to see such aggressive anti-Japan behavior from an 11 year old kid who probably couldn't really understand exactly why these tensions exist or why he's being taught to hate Japan. He hears "Japan bad Korea good" and runs with it.



  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4057

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2021, 02:49:47 pm »
Nationalism might not be the most apt descriptor, but I'm in a bit of a hurry; this is bothering me and I need to get it off my chest so I can stop procrastinating and finish my final assignment for the semester.

Earlier this week, I did a food lesson for the 4th graders and decided to focus a bit more on culture than key expressions.

I started the lesson with a 2min video showing typical breakfasts from different countries, very short and fast-paced so it's unlikely that students would complain out of boredom. A few boys, and it's typically boys where this happens, kept repeating "Korea?", "Korea?", "Korea?". It didn't take long before their cries went from "Korea?" to "Korea!". They were clearly frustrated and annoyed that Korean breakfast was somehow skipped in this very short video. They didn't give a crap that the Netherlands breakfast showed chocolate sprinkles or didn't seem curious in the slightest at the seemingly strange Egyptian breakfast.

The previous week, I did a lesson on sports. I have a pretty awesome, if I say so myself, Powerpoint going through the top 10 most popular sports in the world. There were gifs of spectacular skills and athleticism and some simple rules and facts, just enough for a 4th graders attention before moving on to the next sport. I even brought a rugby and cricket ball and allowed the students to pass them around and get a feel for them.
In the same way, these boys pretty much shut off, ignored the lesson and conversed amongst themselves (till I reprimanded them) unless soccer, basketball or baseball was being shown.

The alarming thing was that the boys in question tended to respond to sports, food and culture outside Korea with... hostility. I show them cricket and they'll say "Cricket no, baseball, yes" or they'd shout down food from other countries as disgusting despite it being the first time they probably saw it. Kid, nobody is challenging you, why do you feel so threatened and insecure, particularly at such a young age? You can learn something new and still enjoy soccer, ramen and mobile games.

I've seen this kind of behaviour at multiple schools and with many students over the years and it's typically boys. Another interesting observation is that they tend to take new information and shape it to fit their stereotypes instead of relating it to what they know:

- Every black athlete is Usain Bolt
- Rugby is American football, not a different sport.
- Cricket is baseball, again, not a different sport.
- I can't eat spicy food
- I'm not from South Africa because I'm not black. I'm from somewhere else and the reason I've repeated "I'm from South Africa" about 300 times is purely coincidental. 
- All foods of Japanese origin is disgusting

It's cool to love your country etc. but when this inhibits or restricts you from learning something new, you have a problem, particularly at such a young age.

Before anyone comes with the "Maybe they're just messing with you." I too was a prankster at school and frankly, they're not that smart.

All I can say is that they must have some truly horrendous father figures at home.

Sounds like you are in a very rural small town if the kids are that close minded to other things.  I show the kids pics of foods from back home. everything from donairs, to garlic fingers, to fried clams, the pringles ketchup chips, to Chinese food (egg rolls, chow mein, chop suey, sweet and sour chicken balls, etc).  Kids lose their shit over them.  They scream delicious and want to try them. 

Now if some more Chinese places in Korea could serve some of this.  Though I do believe there is or was a Panda Express in Lotte Dept Store in Myeong Dong?  Not as good as some ma and pa Chinese joints back home.  But beggers can't be choosers.  I haven't gotten up to Seoul since corona began.  (Jan, 2020) 


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1646

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2021, 02:49:57 pm »
All I can say is that they must have some truly horrendous father figures at home.

thats almost certainly it, from what i can see the days of anti-foreigner sentiment being ubiquitous have passed. ofc that sort of language is still alive when it comes to jokes and insults (teacher, he is japanese, etc) but i dont think theres any real xenophobia behind the stuff you see people saying when theyre losing in league or whatever lol

also as hangook mentioned canadians id like to point out that their inability to describe themselves as anything other than how they arent america makes it consistently funny whenever they come in contact with anyone from a country with a working healthcare system. "we arent like america, we have free/subsidized healthcare!" great, so does most of Europe


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4057

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2021, 02:51:21 pm »


In fairness Korea never colonized Japan and did things that later resulted in the division of their country.  Nor do they claim ownership over islands they once occupied.  I agree Korea gets a bit too emotional about it.  But there is a reason for it. 


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1646

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2021, 02:51:28 pm »
Drake is the most successful rapper of this generation, the most since Jay-Z or Eminem (keep in mind that I mention success, not talent. Don't start).

Hell, he's not just from Canada, he's from Toronto, my city.

in all fairness there are some pretty convincing reasons to not be proud of drake that have nothing to do with his talent (or lack thereof) so idk if hes the best example


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7265

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2021, 02:52:25 pm »
also as hangook mentioned canadians id like to point out that their inability to describe themselves as anything other than how they arent america makes it consistently funny whenever they come in contact with anyone from a country with a working healthcare system. "we arent like america, we have free/subsidized healthcare!" great, so does most of Europe

Most annoying people. "HAAAAAAAAAAAA GUNS AND TAILGATE PARTIES. YEEHAW AMERICA."

Like............... ........ that sounds great. hahahaha A lot of Canadians are annoying. I'm annoying, too, but in a different way.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7265

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2021, 02:53:34 pm »
in all fairness there are some pretty convincing reasons to not be proud of drake that have nothing to do with his talent (or lack thereof) so idk if hes the best example

I said don't start. I am merely mentioning success level, of which he ranks ridiculously high on ANY metric. 


Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2021, 02:57:49 pm »
Yeah, one thing I notice here is that it's not "Hey, look at what Koreans made in history/here's an invention."

That reminds me of a middle school class I was teaching on inventions. Pretty fun game, guess which country invented what. Then when we got to refrigerator one student said it wasn't invented by the US, it was invented by Korea (by burying kimchi in a clay pot) and of course the Korean teacher agreed...


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1646

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2021, 02:59:20 pm »
I said don't start. I am merely mentioning success level, of which he ranks ridiculously high on ANY metric.

cool, but that being the case your post doesnt make much sense, or is at the very least horribly misplaced (perhaps you meant to post this in the "what are you listening to" thread or whatever). what does drakes success level have to do with anything?


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7265

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2021, 03:03:56 pm »
cool, but that being the case your post doesnt make much sense, or is at the very least horribly misplaced (perhaps you meant to post this in the "what are you listening to" thread or whatever). what does drakes success level have to do with anything?


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1646

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2021, 03:06:27 pm »
Most annoying people. "HAAAAAAAAAAAA GUNS AND TAILGATE PARTIES. YEEHAW AMERICA."

Like............... ........ that sounds great. hahahaha A lot of Canadians are annoying. I'm annoying, too, but in a different way.

i like how the immediate response to something being said about canada is pointing out something worse about america  :P thats the ol canadian spirit flaring up in you!


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7265

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2021, 03:07:02 pm »
i like how the immediate response to something being said about canada is pointing out something worse about america  :P thats the ol canadian spirit flaring up in you!

Wot? What did I say that was worse?


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4057

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2021, 03:09:03 pm »
thats almost certainly it, from what i can see the days of anti-foreigner sentiment being ubiquitous have passed. ofc that sort of language is still alive when it comes to jokes and insults (teacher, he is japanese, etc) but i dont think theres any real xenophobia behind the stuff you see people saying when theyre losing in league or whatever lol

also as hangook mentioned canadians id like to point out that their inability to describe themselves as anything other than how they arent america makes it consistently funny whenever they come in contact with anyone from a country with a working healthcare system. "we arent like america, we have free/subsidized healthcare!" great, so does most of Europe

Yeah, that low self esteem bullshit many Canadians let creep into their thinking is dumb.  Around the 1970's, they merged the old British colonial anti American (cause they didn't want their power or elitism challenged with democratic thinking of the people) with some type of far left "do the opposite of Americans to set ourselves apart".  Our country has down the rabbit hole of absurdity.  We both have similar histories and cultures. folks need to get over it.  After America left, we became the black sheep of the common wealth family clamouring for democracy and local control and autonomy.  We always led the charge got full democracy (for men anyways) a full 25 years before Britian did itself.  We also led the way in being a fully independant country in the Commonwealth during the era of British Empire.  We pushed and pushed and pushed.  If Britian had of resisited, we would have had our own "American revolution" on the North American continent.  There is a reason why the national anthem describes "the True North Strong and Free".  The founders of the country are turning over in their graves how the current generation of Canadians have let themself become subservient all due to a mix of pride and insecurity.  IE  We will let the government control us due to it not being American.  Though there are still Canadians awake.  You see it in Facebook groups and elsewhere.  But sadly not enough of them amongst voters. 

Canadians have come to support the Emporer with no clothes (Trudeau and other like him).  They have become so afraid of being similar to America that they let them and their governments be told what to do by global elites, special interest groups, the UN, etc. 

As for bragging about health care, in most provinces, it is falling apart.  Doctor shortages and long waiting lists, overcrowded outpatience facilities (20 hour waits).  There is not enough money to pay for it all and no one wants to admit it.  If anything, I'd say Korea has the most to brag about when it comes to health care.  Their mixed private and public system (multi payer) seems to gel together.  Plenty of doctors and fast service.  Cheap for front end care.  Even some modest procedures maybe a couple of hundred bucks.  Go in on Tuesday to ask for an endoscopy for example.  Then on Saturday get it done.  Get the buttscopy done at same time with anasthetic.  Fast and only 200 bucks.  In Canada free but wait 2 years and no anathetic due to budget cuts.  In the US a few grand or more.  So, health care the US and Canada both have their issues.  Korea is the best there.  Private health care allows for profits and incentives while government keeps costs reasonable.  You should add some cheap private insurance for surgies here though.  But even so some cancer sergeries and chemo 20 grand here versus 100 grand in the US or having to wait years for testing if the government in canada doesn't find it.  (Though if they do find it they will jump you to the head of the queue and operate more quickly.  But this is only if they catch it.) 

Moral of the story, Canada health care is a disaster and nothing to brag about once the US comparison is stripped from the equation. In fact, it's a global embarassment.  As for education, I took out large student loans and I had to pay back every red cent.  Government gave me nothing.  So, screw them.  Propaganda about generous Canadian government programs. 

 


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7265

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2021, 03:09:12 pm »
[Canadians are the] Most annoying people. [They make fun of Americans by impersonating a caricature like this] "HAAAAAAAAAAAA GUNS AND TAILGATE PARTIES. YEEHAW AMERICA."

Like............... ........ that [guns and tailgate parties] sounds great. hahahaha A lot of Canadians are annoying. I'm annoying, too, but in a different way.

Is this clearer, 745sticky?


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1646

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2021, 03:11:24 pm »
Is this clearer, 745sticky?

it is actually, mainly because it reads completely differently now that youve inserted several important (clarifying) words, lol. im sure you can see how your original response could be pretty easily misread


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7265

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Nationalism in children
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2021, 03:12:00 pm »
If anything, I'd say Korea has the most to brag about when it comes to health care.  Their mixed private and public system (multi payer) seems to gel together.  Plenty of doctors and fast service.  Cheap for front end care.  Even some modest procedures maybe a couple of hundred bucks.  \

If you asked any Canadian, "Would you pay 9 bucks to see a doctor in 5 mins rather than 2 hours," 95% would say yes.

The Korean system is banging.