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Re: Pay
« Reply #100 on: May 17, 2021, 02:07:49 pm »
Well, except for people who use this site, their editors, employers, college admissions, parents, your boss...

I make mistakes all the time. I'm not a grammar Nazi and pointing out flaws like that in a middle of an argument is usually just a distraction, so I kind of get where you're coming from.

At the same time, it is kind of something to watch for. I used to not even notice I was mixing up "your" and "you're" when typing. Someone wayback when pointed it out on Dave's and I'm happy they did. After that I've been more careful (though not perfect).

My grammar leaves much to be desired and later this year, once I've finished all the modules for my teaching license, I intend to enrol in a grammar course.

Typically, I'd never call someone out for a grammar or spelling mistake, but hangook is the exception. Anyone who shows such hostility to: fresh undergrads signing 2.1mil contracts, licensed teachers for being "boring" and the Korean government for not paying him more money needs to be bitch-slapped off their pedestal and have their massively inflated ego put in check.

'definate' is not a typo, as he claims... 'a' and 'i' are on opposite sides of a bloody qwerty keyboard. The fattest fingers in the world wouldn't make that mistake and 'definate' is a common misspelling by people with poor reading and writing abilities.

'use to' is plain inexcusable for a guy who places himself into a a teaching position, particularly when he demands more money for his "skills".

Again, I get that this is waygook.org and we're oftentimes communicating quite casually, but this is how, and why, people start to become  more critical of you and your competencies when you blowhard yourself as knowing better than everyone else.

6 or 8 threads, in the last 2 weeks, on why we should go to China, for God's sake. Everyone here knows how to use YouTube, Google and is perfectly capable of doing their own research should they consider going there. Hangook isn't the only one with an internet connection and financial issues.


Re: Pay
« Reply #101 on: May 17, 2021, 02:22:55 pm »
Everyone's a liar?  Pretty strong words.  I hope you don't tell everyone you meet in person they're full of $h!t.  I guess I choose to be less jaded and give folks the befefit of the doubt especially when multiple people are saying the same or similar thing.  Adds to the credibility of what folks are saying.  Numerous eye witness testimony is also accepted in court, even if you think they are all liars. 
1) Everyone is a liar yes, that's not what makes some of what you say particularly unreliable. Reliability is relative.
2) Often it isn't so much lying as it is accuracy or emphasis. Certain details that are relevant get omitted, others are given increased emphasis.
3) In your case, there have been repeated relayings of stories that have elements that seem to stretch things. Most recently with the whole BTS and Starbucks thing. The big question was "How TF did BTS come up in a conversation with a Starbucks worker within 2 minutes?" And when you then say something like "They didn't mention it, therefore they aren't into it", it makes people question your judgment because the conclusions you draw are not supported by events.
4) Eye witness testimony is accepted in court, but the consensus is, is that eye witness testimony is some of the most unreliable testimony. They've done studies where people have "robbed" an entire auditorium of students and the descriptions people give are virtually random chance. Sure SOME people get it spot on. Most do not.
5) Not only that, you're getting 2nd and 3rd-hand accounts of things. Not to mention it seems a lot of samples appear to be "people who visited." Finally, it's a bit odd that all your conversations go in one direction. I would think at least some be some variety in accounts, especially because, as I mentioned, there could be some regional variance.


Re: Pay
« Reply #102 on: May 17, 2021, 02:24:53 pm »
Typically, I'd never call someone out for a grammar or spelling mistake, but hangook is the exception. Anyone who shows such hostility to: fresh undergrads signing 2.1mil contracts, licensed teachers for being "boring" and the Korean government for not paying him more money
Yeah, fair point. If one is going to go on and on about how great they are and then demonstrates questionable skills, they kind of have it coming.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6964

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Pay
« Reply #103 on: May 17, 2021, 02:30:53 pm »
Most recently with the whole BTS and Starbucks thing. The big question was "How TF did BTS come up in a conversation with a Starbucks worker within 2 minutes?"

What did I miss?
ETA 2day 4hour 45min to next reboot.
DO NOT UNPLUG


  • D.L.Orean
  • Super Waygook

    • 392

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: Pay
« Reply #104 on: May 17, 2021, 02:39:10 pm »
What did I miss?

Hangook's alpha male personality attracts the interest of young female Starbucks employees and in their brief flirtations, over his order of a caramel macchiato with extra whipped cream, they never mention BTS. From this Hangook has been able to deduce that most women are not interested in BTS. I think there was also something about him hearing skinny guys aren't as hot as him.


Re: Pay
« Reply #105 on: May 17, 2021, 02:40:46 pm »
What did I miss?

Well, I don't want to give a false re-telling so for the sake of "integrity", I will link the discussion below

https://www.waygook.org/index.php?topic=122054.100


Re: Pay
« Reply #106 on: May 17, 2021, 02:49:24 pm »
Hangook's alpha male personality attracts the interest of young female Starbucks employees and in their brief flirtations, over his order of a caramel macchiato with extra whipped cream, they never mention BTS. From this Hangook has been able to deduce that most women are not interested in BTS. I think there was also something about him hearing skinny guys aren't as hot as him.
You know, I'm reading this and I'm looking for the part that is a bit over-the-top and aside from omitting that he DID talk about knowing a lot of his former students in their 20s and them not being into BTS (wait...maybe you did him a favor by omitting that), I can't really see where you mischaracterized things. I guess maybe the caramel macchiato part...I mean in hangook77's defense, I've not really seen anything that suggests he's a whipped cream sweet coffee drink guy (well except for a few extra pounds, but who amongst us isn't getting a bit heavier in our middle years?) and not a black cup of coffee guy. So I guess that was a bit out of order.

That really was how his thought process went- "The Starbucks person is 20ish. They've never brought up BTS. Ergo, 20 somethings in Korea are not into BTS" Even more odd, he doesn't understand why that doesn't work.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6964

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Pay
« Reply #107 on: May 17, 2021, 03:01:05 pm »
Hahahaha.

"Starbucks employees clearly are non-voters, they never discuss local municipal politics with me whilst I wait for my Venti."
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  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6218

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Pay
« Reply #108 on: May 17, 2021, 03:06:26 pm »
K-pop superstars BTS will make a guest appearance on a reunion special of the popular American sitcom "Friends"

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20210514007300315

Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga and David Beckham will be among the others to be featured on the show.


Re: Pay
« Reply #109 on: May 17, 2021, 03:59:45 pm »
K-pop superstars BTS will make a guest appearance on a reunion special of the popular American sitcom "Friends"

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20210514007300315

Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga and David Beckham will be among the others to be featured on the show.

I'd think Will & Grace would have been prime. Grace and Jack were always going to random stuff together like Antiques Roadshow or watching Surya Bonaly skate. I could see them going nuts over BTS.


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 752

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Pay
« Reply #110 on: May 18, 2021, 12:23:04 pm »
Feel like the base pay 2.1 m with housing is pretty acceptable.  Academies should do a better job of paying experienced proven teachers more money, but it's such a crap shoot.  In Korea, if you hire a Korean English teacher, you can cut ties with them pretty quickly if they can't meet the requirements.  Not to mention, they often work their asses off in the beginning (that quickly falls off) to prove themselves (at least the older generation did). 

Once you compare that to a NET, way more hoops to jump through to hire them and much more demand on  your time once you do.  Also, you are pretty much stuck with them for a year and have to painfully suck it up if they end up being a lemon.  That juxtaposition alone makes it really difficult  to ever raise base pay.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

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    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Pay
« Reply #111 on: May 18, 2021, 01:43:19 pm »
You know, I'm reading this and I'm looking for the part that is a bit over-the-top and aside from omitting that he DID talk about knowing a lot of his former students in their 20s and them not being into BTS (wait...maybe you did him a favor by omitting that), I can't really see where you mischaracterized things. I guess maybe the caramel macchiato part...I mean in hangook77's defense, I've not really seen anything that suggests he's a whipped cream sweet coffee drink guy (well except for a few extra pounds, but who amongst us isn't getting a bit heavier in our middle years?) and not a black cup of coffee guy. So I guess that was a bit out of order.

That really was how his thought process went- "The Starbucks person is 20ish. They've never brought up BTS. Ergo, 20 somethings in Korea are not into BTS" Even more odd, he doesn't understand why that doesn't work.

The fact that you read all my posts religiously memorizing every word I say and you let me live rent free in your head is pretty lame. 


Re: Pay
« Reply #112 on: May 28, 2021, 05:30:55 am »
If pay is a prime concern, isn't teaching barking up the wrong tree?

If a person is interested in money, within the English education industry in KR, you can run an academy and make 30M/month profit (and have it dominate your life, as tends to happen with successful small businesses). Individual labor is more like 2-3M, so yes if big money is your concern thatís the wrong route.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3242

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Pay
« Reply #113 on: May 28, 2021, 07:53:51 am »
I agree with this rate (3.1 ~ 3.5 + housing) being a comfortable and reasonable starting salary from 2021.
While the pay might not be the prime concern for some ESL teachers, in order for the salary to be considered comfortable and livable and not borderline poverty level, it should be raised to counter inflation.

In 1997 ~ 2.1 was an incredible salary.  (It was a time when Korean families of four would live off this income and minimum wage was like 1 or two dollars).
In 2011 ~ This was still considered a comfortable and livable salary for one person (without having to be frugal) and the minimum wage was still at 4 to 5 dollars, I believe.
In 2021 ~ The current starting salary 2.0 ~ 2.1 and housing is a little bit tight, and instead of a salary, I see it a really lucrative and comfortable internship stipend. With minimum wage pushing close to $9.00 dollars now... it would be difficult to sustain a quality life here with the current salary.

Right now with the pandemic still out there, it is still possible to save $1,000 dollars every month... but that requires being extremely frugal.


Even (almost) 10 years later, out in the provinces (not Seoul), it was a decent salary.  In the countryside, what I use to hear was that a man making 1.5 million won was the bare acceptable salary that he could make in order to get married.  One girl I very briefly dated (with a traditional mindset then) thought my 2 million won salary  was really really good.  She being from an even smaller dirt poor town nearby where very few made that money, drew her in.  But she was trying to be a flight attendant at the same time and was a total gold digger bean paste girl.  Dumped that gold digger fast.  A late 20's girl with a fifty something crazy ajumma mindset (back then not now).  No thanks.  A guy making 2 or 2.1 million today wouldn't attract the gold diggers like that now.  Guess that's one good thing about the ESL wage becoming shitty.