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  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4556

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2021, 03:12:02 pm »
You make it very difficult to feel sorry for someone like you.

While having never taught in China nor Taiwan, you claim to know better than a man who has taught in both countries.

If you think you're entitled to higher pay, your C.V needs to reflect that you qualify for it. Since you've evaded my questions about qualifications, I'm going to assume that you only have an undergraduate degree... and there's nothing wrong with that. To people who hate studying and are content with a 3mil cap that's cool. Nothing wrong with teaching ESL in Korea either, no need to tie you career to your self worth, but you're demanding people pay you more money so here we go:

- You were born in 1977, I assume.
- Lets assume you graduated when you were 23
- That means, you're around 45 and in the past 22yrs you've done jack sh*t to improve your qualifications as a teacher.
- A prospective employer is going to look at your application and see this massive gap and deduce that you're no particularly
  serious about improving your craft.

Then you have the downright arrogance and audacity to sneer at educated people who spent time, money and effort into studying to become better teachers as being boring, compared to you because you're more fun and interesting... you know what the kids also find fun and interesting? Jesters, clowns, monkeys, comedians and entertainers. Consider those fields.
Don't preach to us about what it takes to teach ESL, everyone here has at least 7yrs of ESL experience under their belt. ESL in South Korea really doesn't demand much. It's a frustrating job, but not demanding in the slightest. It would seem that a BA graduate is all it takes to teach key expressions from a YBM textbook with a few flashy games thrown in. Keeping students interested only requires a BA graduate. Getting academic results out of them requires a certified teacher WITH a solid curriculum AND a lot more authority than we're given.

You think THAT is what certified teachers, teaching American, British or South African curriculums are doing?
The day a real teacher's responsibilities, classroom management, curriculum and lesson planning are put on your desk is the day you're going to sh*t a chicken!

I give Koreans a lot of sh*t but do you know what they do when they want more money or a promotion? They do courses and postgrad work. They don't whine and complain, they improve themselves and work towards the money.

So, go to China. Like South Korea, they're not looking for you to produce academic results, they just want another funny little foreigner to make them laugh.

No, I just happen to know people who have taught in those countries as well as done lots of research.  I also can see the pay advertised.  It doesn't take a genius to see what they are paying.  So, a course and post grad work will make a uni or hakwon pay more than 2.1 million won?  Most still pay shit no matter what qualifications you have.  Waste of damn time.  Every other occupation got a cost of living increase.  The unionized bus drivers, the factory workers, they didn't take a course.  This is the ultimate lame apologist BS.  Always make excuses.  Raise the pay or start losing teachers.  I don't have to do anything nor do many other teachers leaving.  Experience is experience.  Being a better teacher through experience is being a better teacher through experience. 

No matter what arrogant BS you put out there, pay in Korea was good and now it isn't.  If it doesn't go up soon, people will leave for better paying jobs, except for a small minority (like yourselves).  There is something to being an experienced teacher and even Koreans ask for it and want it.  They just aren't willing to pay for it.  So, it will be time to move to where the pay is higher.  Simple.  Don't need to waste time and money in anything else, except maybe a TESOL course.  I'm talking about ESL anyways, which most of us do on here.   


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4556

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2021, 03:13:30 pm »
L I, you are here? You speak with such authority. Just to point out your error. Recently the government has declared that English will be their 2nd language and they are pumping millions into English education, so don't be so sure that it's on the decline. My program in one county will get 300 additional teachers this coming academic year.

So, the pay in Taiwan will rise soon?  Great.  Maybe it will be time to reconsider.  So far the pay hasn't risen for ESLers there.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4556

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2021, 03:17:26 pm »
Hangook77, you are spending an awful amount of your time trying to convince people that China is the better option. Well maybe for you it is but for most folk here it isn't (CCP, internet censorship, lack of personal freedom, danger of being arrested without cause, moral reasons etc, etc).

No one is telling you not to go and if you want to go it's your choice but don't go in blindly and think it is all rosy and pink unicorns. It is not. It is a big challenge to live there as a foreigner these days, way harder than it was for me.

The CCP wants to stay in power forever (1000 year Reich) and they can only do so by keeping massive control over their people and making them believe that theirs is the only true system for happiness.

How do they do that? Massive nationalism through indoctrination. It starts at kindergarten and never lets up. Walk into any classroom and you will find propaganda books littering the classroom, it's in their curriculum, it's in their faces 24/7 and though the majority of people don't give a flying fig about the CCP, they will kowtow because they don't want their lives disrupted BUT there is a large % of real hardcore nationalists that will do anything to deify the CCP plus there are now incentives by the CCP to report your neighbor should they show any disregard for the CCP. 

So, as a foreigner, you may be completely innocent but some dude doesn't like you (took his girlfriend or something like that), you are a sitting duck. You won't get legal representation or even if you do it is token only and you are dead in the water. The conviction rate in China is almost 100%.

So, by all mean go, but really think carefully about it.  There is a verse from the Bible that comes to mind ( I am not Bible punching) just using it as an illustration.  What use is it that a man gains the whole world but loses his soul..

It's because you same 5 or 6 people keep arguing with me over what was originally a helpful how to transfer money out of China post.  Then you 5 or 6 guys hopped in like you always do and bash and trash and defend Korea's low wages and claim with a never can do spirit that it is shameful if anyone wants better.  As for China, they will do what they will do.  As for the west, they too.  What about all the stuff they do and or ignore?  Anyways, if you want to work for less or are a certified teacher who can work for more, then go do it.  No need to troll and argue with the majority of teachers who are ESLers. 


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6983

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2021, 03:25:36 pm »
What use is it that a man gains the whole world but loses his soul..

You were kicked out of SMOE due to age, so went to China. Then you were forced out of there due to age, too. If the CCP hadn’t given you the boot, you’d still be there. Blessing in disguise because you discovered Taiwan, the place you love.


Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2021, 03:30:03 pm »
No matter what arrogant BS you put out there, pay in Korea was good and now it isn't.  If it doesn't go up soon, people will leave for better paying jobs, except for a small minority (like yourselves).  There is something to being an experienced teacher and even Koreans ask for it and want it.  They just aren't willing to pay for it.  So, it will be time to move to where the pay is higher.  Simple.  Don't need to waste time and money in anything else, except maybe a TESOL course.  I'm talking about ESL anyways, which most of us do on here.   

Which is why I'd prefer to do the mature thing and be grateful for my time in Korea, improve my qualifications and bow out with some grace for a higher paying position in a different country that requires more expertise, responsibility and gives more authority.
I'm set to leave next year. Salaries are getting too low in Korea for my liking, yes, but I'm not going to be an entitled prick and blame anyone for it.
I suspect you'll STILL be here, re-hashing the same thread. On the bright side, you'll still be around when Korea adjusts their clothing sizes.

Don't need to waste time and money in anything else, except maybe a TESOL course.

Certainly not, since you truly are God's gift to Pedagogy, employers and students should pay you 5mil won a month for nothing more than the pleasure of smelling your dusty farts.
Come back and read this quote when you've become the weird 50yr old dude, pissed that he's still going on education office workshops with a bunch of 24yr olds.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 04:02:01 pm by Aristocrat »


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5782

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu County, Taiwan (not part of China)
    more
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2021, 03:43:48 pm »
If the CCP hadn’t given you the boot, you’d still be there.

Wrong again.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6983

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2021, 07:25:58 pm »
Reading your posts, one would certainly get that impression...

One of the problems people face when they hit 60 is in Asia it is impossible to get a visa to work. I faced this problem when China changed the rule in the province I taught, Henan, from 65 to 60. I wasn't able to renew my visa and contract.

I then hit Google and found a recruitment agency, Dewey, mailed them and stated my problem and was chuffed when I got the reply, no age limit in Taiwan, you may apply.

Obviously you have to do your homework, but there are many great gigs in China. I was sorry I had to leave due to my age but I had a great job. Everything was free. I only paid for my food I ate, the rest of my salary I put into my pocket.

Plenty of part time jobs there too, illegal but you can do it if you stay under the radar.

...but people change. Maybe you feel differently now.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6983

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2021, 07:38:51 pm »
I get the equivalent of 3.3 million KRW

Heads up to readers:

I am a licenced teacher and if you have 12 years or more teaching experience in a public school you get top of the scale

3.3 is possible... but not typical.


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5782

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu County, Taiwan (not part of China)
    more
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2021, 07:52:47 pm »
Reading your posts, one would certainly get that impression...
 
...but people change. Maybe you feel differently now.

Absolutely, very different now.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2021, 09:55:50 pm »
Have you looked into opportunities in your home country? Back in 2019, I was considering a few offers from Chinese schools. The offers sounded pretty good at the time-16,000 to 20,0000 RMB monthly and housing. However, I chose to start a new career in the US.  I wasn't planning on being an ESL lifer and didn't want to keep delaying the inevitable. Now I make nearly triple what I was making in Korea. I have no regrets about turning down those offers.

What did you end up doing at home?


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2292

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2021, 08:21:05 am »
What qualifications do you have?

Many schools hiring "real" teachers and paying big bucks in places like the UAE don't really count ESL experience as experience. They want experience in teaching a particular curriculum, typically the one being taught at their school. It's not always nice to hear that serious educational institutions don't care about your experience with bomb games or co-teaching an unrecognised curriculum, but that's reality if you want a lucrative teaching position.

So, aside from being older, not as pretty and not knowing how to spell 'definite', what makes you better than the hundred thousand 22yr old undergrad kids going into the ESL field?

Japan is like that too, and one of the reasons the starting salaries are quite low when you try to go there, they only really count "ESL experience from within Japan." There are likely places that might count any. But, I've been interviewed by many of the ALT companies, and a few Eikaiwa's, and they have all stated that.
Even though teaching in Japan for us, is basically the same as Korea, except the levels tend to be a bit lower (2 years ago, a friend of mine teaching at a high school showed me some exam questions, and it was at the level that my grade 1 middle school textbook level).
A bit of a tangent, but my point is, even in ESL in Asia, some places will only consider experience from within their country.


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2292

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #91 on: May 12, 2021, 08:32:03 am »
You make it very difficult to feel sorry for someone like you.

While having never taught in China nor Taiwan, you claim to know better than a man who has taught in both countries.

If you think you're entitled to higher pay, your C.V needs to reflect that you qualify for it. Since you've evaded my questions about qualifications, I'm going to assume that you only have an undergraduate degree... and there's nothing wrong with that. To people who hate studying and are content with a 3mil cap that's cool. Nothing wrong with teaching ESL in Korea either, no need to tie you career to your self worth, but you're demanding people pay you more money so here we go:

- You were born in 1977, I assume.
- Lets assume you graduated when you were 23
- That means, you're around 45 and in the past 22yrs you've done jack sh*t to improve your qualifications as a teacher.
- A prospective employer is going to look at your application and see this massive gap and deduce that you're no particularly
  serious about improving your craft.

Then you have the downright arrogance and audacity to sneer at educated people who spent time, money and effort into studying to become better teachers as being boring, compared to you because you're more fun and interesting... you know what the kids also find fun and interesting? Jesters, clowns, monkeys, comedians and entertainers. Consider those fields.
Don't preach to us about what it takes to teach ESL, everyone here has at least 7yrs of ESL experience under their belt. ESL in South Korea really doesn't demand much. It's a frustrating job, but not demanding in the slightest. It would seem that a BA graduate is all it takes to teach key expressions from a YBM textbook with a few flashy games thrown in. Keeping students interested only requires a BA graduate. Getting academic results out of them requires a certified teacher WITH a solid curriculum AND a lot more authority than we're given.

You think THAT is what certified teachers, teaching American, British or South African curriculums are doing?
The day a real teacher's responsibilities, classroom management, curriculum and lesson planning are put on your desk is the day you're going to sh*t a chicken!

I give Koreans a lot of sh*t but do you know what they do when they want more money or a promotion? They do courses and postgrad work. They don't whine and complain, they improve themselves and work towards the money.

So, go to China. Like South Korea, they're not looking for you to produce academic results, they just want another funny little foreigner to make them laugh.

Again to back up your fun and interesting point. In my first year teaching in Korea, on the first 2 days I had to go to 2 different schools to watch the foreign teacher's evaluation class.
Day 1) I watched a passionate teacher deliver a really well done elementary lesson, the kids were engaged with the lesson and even the lowest level students were able to demonstrate doing it on their own without the words and stuff in front of them too. This teacher got a 60/100 from the education office and school.

Day 2) Middle school lesson. The guy showed up with bags of candy, he played YT vid after YT vid for the lesson, and just threw candy to the students after every 2nd video. His score: 100/100.

Now, if you were actually the one hiring for your school and wanted real academic growth, which one would you want to hire? Cause the one that would have done that was non-renewed (granted, they were planning to leave anyway). The 2nd one is a waste of money.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #92 on: May 12, 2021, 10:18:00 am »
Good lord. What do you think was the reason for the weird scoring?
Was the one decidedly more attractive than the other or something?

Honestly, unless those open lessons are evaluated by an outsider, they're a total joke. If the school likes you, you get perfect scores. If not, not.
I've always done well on my evaluations (perfect scores 5 years running baby!  :afro: ), but I really wish that I would have a real evaluation. I haven't had an honest critique of my teaching style for a very very long time. Would love to have actual constructive input! :sad:


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2292

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #93 on: May 12, 2021, 10:35:31 am »
Good lord. What do you think was the reason for the weird scoring?
Was the one decidedly more attractive than the other or something?

Honestly, unless those open lessons are evaluated by an outsider, they're a total joke. If the school likes you, you get perfect scores. If not, not.
I've always done well on my evaluations (perfect scores 5 years running baby!  :afro: ), but I really wish that I would have a real evaluation. I haven't had an honest critique of my teaching style for a very very long time. Would love to have actual constructive input! :sad:

Basically, the education office lady of the city was there to evaluate the foreign teacher, the principal and someone else was there to evaluate them too, and me and 2 others that started in that city at the same time had to evaluate them too. After the class we had to talk and discuss the lessons that we watched.
I think the result was, and bare in mind this was like almost 5 years ago, the person who done good was leaving, so they didn't really care how they scored them. I think, that person just wouldn't bend to office politics, but was great in the classroom. Whereas the 2nd person was well liked because they made the students happy and were no problem for the Korean teachers.

For me, I've only had 1 evaluation lesson in my 5 years in Korea, and it was last year, and it was on request. Basically, they'd tell me I have one on x-date and no one would show up. Last year, my Wednesday school just started getting to me too much, the school... can't do anything about it... so I asked the education office to change me to a different school because of the issues. They wanted to see the issues first hand, however, they gave the school the date in advance, got the students to behave for that lesson with me, and so they didn't see the problems, but used that class to evaluate me  and I got close to a perfect score (they wanted to see more worksheets given to the students was their only gripe - but my co-teacher said, whenever we give them worksheets, they just rip/cut them up, so it's a waste of paper).


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #94 on: May 12, 2021, 10:56:22 am »
So frustrating!!
 What's the point in scheduling open classes or evaluations beforehand? Given notice, they end up being full-on movie productions. Special effects and everything!

Heck, a few years ago, one of the teachers rehearsed the class with her students like 4 or 5 times so that it would work out for the evaluation.
Complete and utter waste of time.

Make 'em surprise evaluations, or don't bother at all.
The same goes for those building fire-inspections etc. Such a joke.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4556

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2021, 12:23:44 pm »
Which is why I'd prefer to do the mature thing and be grateful for my time in Korea, improve my qualifications and bow out with some grace for a higher paying position in a different country that requires more expertise, responsibility and gives more authority.
I'm set to leave next year. Salaries are getting too low in Korea for my liking, yes, but I'm not going to be an entitled prick and blame anyone for it.
I suspect you'll STILL be here, re-hashing the same thread. On the bright side, you'll still be around when Korea adjusts their clothing sizes.

Certainly not, since you truly are God's gift to Pedagogy, employers and students should pay you 5mil won a month for nothing more than the pleasure of smelling your dusty farts.
Come back and read this quote when you've become the weird 50yr old dude, pissed that he's still going on education office workshops with a bunch of 24yr olds.

Nothing about being entitled.  I refuse to defend wage dicks who keep wages low just because they can.  The other professions have gotten raises and cost of living increases.  Even the cleaning ajummas who cleans my friend's apartment building.  He told me she got 2.3 million.  Unionized bus drivers who made 2 million won and factory workers who made 1.5 million a month while hakwon workers made 2.1 to 2.3 million a month now make much more.  ESL jobs still paying 2.1 to 2.3 while unionized bus drivers make over 3 plus million won now and the factory jobs are paying 2.7 to 3.0 million (for the migrant workers).

Had friends take Masters to get uni job that paid the same and even less than years ago when they hired folks with experienced and Bachelors.  Not exactly stellar case here.  Will the schools pay more, not at all?  A few will, but many will not.  Waste of time.  It's about respect and not entitled.  But folks who want to be arrogant and feel stuck up and superior to anyone else is free to do as they wish.  Either Korea pays and steps up or starts losing their teachers.  Slow exodus beginning.  Folks are voting with their feet.  Slow trickle.  But will become gushing river.



  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #96 on: May 13, 2021, 12:38:26 pm »
K-pop is the dam to that river.
Halyu forever, oppa! *squueeeee*!

You want to tip the market in the ESL worker's favour? Attack the root of the problem: Korean cultural export. If Korea loses its cultural draw, far fewer newly graduated folk will be looking for work here, which will drive up those wages!

Alternatively, one can just not worry about it and just make oneself more marketable (as you yourself have done, from what I've read). Nobody who's worked in Korea for more than a few years should be earning entry level wages, so this ridiculously low entry wage isn't really applicable to them.  :undecided:


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4556

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #97 on: May 13, 2021, 12:42:34 pm »
I don't buy the majority come over here to meet bts or super junior.  Like maybe .02%.  That's a bunch of propoganda.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #98 on: May 13, 2021, 12:53:43 pm »
I've assisted in organizing an ESL orientation or two, and culture is definitely something that many quote as being a factor in deciding where to go. Trust me, your percentage is off by 2, 3, or even 4 orders of magnitude!
    I wouldn't say it's the number one most important factor, but it does play a huge part for many.

Awareness, familiarity, and a general conception of the culture being cool/interesting/kawaii will go a long way towards attracting those who want to spend a year abroad and are trying to decide their destination.

And yeah, I agree that propaganda is definitely an important part of cultural export!


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 635

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #99 on: May 13, 2021, 12:58:28 pm »
I don't buy the majority come over here to meet bts or super junior.  Like maybe .02%.  That's a bunch of propoganda.

What/How much did you know about Korea before you first came? Even if people aren't into the pop culture exports, Korea is definitely in the consciousness of more people than 10/15/20 years ago. I'd guess the pop culture stuff is a big part of that.