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  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3671

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2021, 01:43:45 pm »
Another example I just found of a job bringing in folks from outside of China with free apartment and high pay. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ucels/permalink/3046020438942711/


  • D.L.Orean
  • Super Waygook

    • 443

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2021, 02:26:07 pm »
One of my friends applied in February and he expects to be there in summer.  It does take longer to get documents and application process.  My friend hired someone in North America a service to do all the legwork with Chinese embassy there.  Also, I spoke to a couple of recruiters and they said it is opening up.  Some ads on Dave's do say outsiders welcome now.  There are some ads which say only in China, but if you get your application in now, prob by fall or whenever you can get over there.  I will renew this year until the Corona issue clears up and I am at a higher base pay for now.  My friend was doing your standard 2.1 in Seoul and he was sick of it.

Why was he stuck at 2.1 if he'd been here for a while?


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3671

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2021, 02:39:02 pm »
Why was he stuck at 2.1 if he'd been here for a while?

He may have been a bit more.  But still towards the bottom.  Seoul area hakwons many still pay it.  Doesn't matter how much experience you have or how good you are at teaching.  There are some (I saw Gangnam Kindies) going as high as 2.8 to 3.0 million a while back.  But many are still stuck in the low 2.0's to mid 2.0's.  He changed jobs, took breaks after contracts then applied for next opening, etc.  Like a lot of English teachers use to do.  Hakwons little vacation.  Folks finished the contract then went to a beach somewhere cheap and then came back to work.  (Not a good long term plan of course, but to each their own.) 

Also, most foreigners don't want to go out to the country.  When I first came countryside and Seoul was similar in pay.  I was about to move up there to get out of the sticks then the Recession flooded the market so I stayed put.  Salaries got put up and was good for a long time, though I have been stuck for quite a few years no raise.  Still okay but soon will not be due to coming inflation I see around the corner.  You can make more money in public schools and some universities long term but you have to start low and build your way up to the higher pay.  Plus the lack of convenience of multiple schools and taking buses all over unless you drive in a nice air conditioned car or heated car.  More money, more expenses for some like me, I guess.  It is more convenient to live in a city if you live in a one room next to your school and walk there in 10 minutes even with lower pay.

My friend only did hakwons, kindies, maybe some adult teaching.  Even out in the provinces those few types of jobs still pay low too.  Anyways, he was on that F points visa and now go is making it too hard reducing points for Korean language, age (40 and up), etc.  I think Korea wants to drive out those foreigners.  You aren't a real foreigner unless you are an executive, rich, a banker, an IT person, lawyer, engineer, etc.  Boot the scummy English teachers apparently by now changing the F points Visa and making it too hard.  That's another thing that's making him leave, I believe. 


  • D.L.Orean
  • Super Waygook

    • 443

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2021, 02:44:34 pm »
He may have been a bit more.  But still towards the bottom.  Seoul area hakwons many still pay it.  Doesn't matter how much experience you have or how good you are at teaching.  There are some (I saw Gangnam Kindies) going as high as 2.8 to 3.0 million a while back.  But many are still stuck in the low 2.0's to mid 2.0's.  He changed jobs, took breaks after contracts then applied for next opening, etc.  Like a lot of English teachers use to do.  Hakwons little vacation.  Folks finished the contract then went to a beach somewhere cheap and then came back to work.  (Not a good long term plan of course, but to each their own.) 

Also, most foreigners don't want to go out to the country.  When I first came countryside and Seoul was similar in pay.  I was about to move up there to get out of the sticks then the Recession flooded the market so I stayed put.  Salaries got put up and was good for a long time, though I have been stuck for quite a few years no raise.  Still okay but soon will not be due to coming inflation I see around the corner.  You can make more money in public schools and some universities long term but you have to start low and build your way up to the higher pay.  Plus the lack of convenience of multiple schools and taking buses all over unless you drive in a nice air conditioned car or heated car.  More money, more expenses for some like me, I guess.  It is more convenient to live in a city if you live in a one room next to your school and walk there in 10 minutes even with lower pay.

My friend only did hakwons, kindies, maybe some adult teaching.  Even out in the provinces those few types of jobs still pay low too.  Anyways, he was on that F points visa and now go is making it too hard reducing points for Korean language, age (40 and up), etc.  I think Korea wants to drive out those foreigners.  You aren't a real foreigner unless you are an executive, rich, a banker, an IT person, lawyer, engineer, etc.  Boot the scummy English teachers apparently by now changing the F points Visa and making it too hard.  That's another thing that's making him leave, I believe.

If you're a F-visa holder in your 40s making 2.1 at a hagwon, that's a you problem not a Korea problem.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6429

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2021, 03:17:17 pm »
The problem is age 40 means the F points visa is harder to get in the first place now. Also harder to renew. Also renewal is only one year (or even less if income is too low). For me it was previously five years. Now gonna be one. Sucks to have to keep paying 120,000 every year rather than once every five years... plus accumulating necessary paperwork (of which there is a lot) then traveling to the immigration office for yearly renewal.


Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2021, 12:27:02 pm »
Back in the mid 1980s, my step-brother and his wife (New Zealand Chinese) stopped off in China for a week on their way to the England. They had a suitcase half full of Bibles to give to long lost family members and who knows who else. They knew that this was illegal but did it anyway. Customs got them and hauled them over the coals for 24 hours, lucky not to get kicked out on the next flight. They got fined and the Bibles were confiscated of course. They said that the constant interrogation was so intense that they were both in tears. Ha! No sympathy. Bet they never did that again.


Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2021, 01:07:46 pm »
Not sure if it's a pattern or just coincidence.

A friend used to teach in Korea and left to start a business in his home country. It didn't go well and he's been unemployed for quite a while. He spends way too much time on Facebook, complaining about politics, racism, the woke agenda and his personal thoughts on the injustice he's facing with his struggles to find a job as a white man. It's sad since I've known him to be a cool guy, but it's clear to see that he's changed and it's likely that he's going through a bit of depression and his political, anti-religious and personal views have become more hostile. He's recently thrown a complete 180 and has expressed his admiration for the CCP and plans to work in China.

He's not the first person I know to adopt this viewpoint and I've picked up similar characteristics of these kinds of people who're becoming CCP supporters:

- white male
- quite conservative
- obsessed with politics
- mid 30s to 50s
- militant Atheist
- single
- no remarkable qualifications

Just a thought


Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2021, 01:46:23 pm »
Yeah Aristocrat, that's a strange one. Perhaps he sees the restrictive life style imposed be the CCP, as a kind of freedom. Kind of mind boggling given what most people know the CCP are doing. and the stupid games they play. Anyway, your observations are food for thought. Personally I don't understand any praise for the CCP, and I have never had any desire to visit.


Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2021, 03:57:28 pm »
Yeah Aristocrat, that's a strange one. Perhaps he sees the restrictive life style imposed be the CCP, as a kind of freedom. Kind of mind boggling given what most people know the CCP are doing. and the stupid games they play. Anyway, your observations are food for thought. Personally I don't understand any praise for the CCP, and I have never had any desire to visit.

I see it as a kind of teenage temper tantrum or rebellion at the Western society they believe has rejected them for being who they are.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4475

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2021, 05:50:12 pm »
One of my friends applied in February and he expects to be there in summer.  It does take longer to get documents and application process.  My friend hired someone in North America a service to do all the legwork with Chinese embassy there.  Also, I spoke to a couple of recruiters and they said it is opening up.  Some ads on Dave's do say outsiders welcome now.  There are some ads which say only in China, but if you get your application in now, prob by fall or whenever you can get over there.  I will renew this year until the Corona issue clears up and I am at a higher base pay for now.  My friend was doing your standard 2.1 in Seoul and he was sick of it. 

90% of applicants currently can't get into China due to several hurdles deliberately put in place by the central government.

Some people can't even get an embassy appointment as the embassy where they are might be closed or not accepting applications. Right now all new applicants need something called a PU letter before they can even apply for a visa, which is issued out on a city by city (and even provincial) basis...most cities and provinces aren't even issuing PU letters right now, but some are. Even if one manages to jump through the hoops and secure a visa, they need to apply for permission to board from the local   Chinese embassy at the port of departure (strict rules on PCR tests etc), and even then those who follow the rules aren't always accepted at this final hurdle.

But with all that said, things are improving. Previously it would have been 99% of people not being able to enter China for work. China should open up more later this year if the current vaccination  trend continues (currently 7mil per day, doubling every 2-3 weeks).


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2749

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2021, 06:35:43 pm »
.... Personally I don't understand any praise for the CCP, and I have never had any desire to visit.

Well, I'm 100% with you regarding the CCP, without a doubt one of the most repressive and brutal governments on the planet.  However, "never had any desire to visit" makes me raise my eyebrows.

I know people have different tastes, etc, but China's amazing ancient history, which has for the most part been carefully curated at least in the recent era, has something for everybody!  Ancient naked eye observatories, amazing animals, the Great Wall (I've been to two sections), the terra-cotta warriors (in a very chill town, btw), museums, temples, markets (eg, the bird and insect market in Shanghai), art ... and the FOOD.  No place on earth does food like the Chinese!

And bear in mind what confusedsaffer points out, don't confuse the government with the people--in a half-dozen trips I've met a few a$$h*les, but only at the same rate as anywhere else, most Chinese have been kind and gracious, good folks.

I do have to say though traveling is getting more onerous.  The paperwork for getting my visa (an American) in 2018 was ridiculous, but otoh it's good for 10 years.  My first few visits, to go on the subway, you had to go through bag screening, but not foreigners--I was always waved past.  But not so anymore, when I went in 2018 and 2019, my camera bag was routinely inspected. 

The rise of electronic pay is becoming a problem too.  I did not experience this, but I have heard that some pedicabs/tuk-tuks and street vendors don't even take cash anymore.  Apparently it's to track your income/outgo, like how Matt Gaetz is purportedly getting caught out for paying young ladies for whatever.  I have my visa until 2028, so I certainly hope to take advantage of it a couple more times, there's still loads to see.

Of course, it's not my place to tell you how to spend your time or money (and frankly I wouldn't live there under the Xi regime) but I'm just saying to keep your mind open to China as a vacation possibility.
https://seoulpatch.blogspot.com/search/label/china


Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2021, 09:10:45 am »
Mr C, thanks for the blog link. I glanced at it and it looks great. I'll have a good read later. Also interesting what you said about your travels. The truth is I'm just not much of a traveler or a person who enjoys visiting different sites while on holiday. The exception being natural history museums (which I saw in the blog). I'm basically a beach, barbecue, and beer vacationer. China, in fact Asian countries in general have never been on my interested list. Growing up, it was all about the South Pacific and the occasional fleeting idea of going to Britain, Europe, and small town America.   
I don't know any Chinese Chinese people, but I do (did) know a few NZ Chinese. All good folk, but preferred to socialize within their own community.


Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2021, 11:19:43 am »
Of course, it's not my place to tell you how to spend your time or money (and frankly I wouldn't live there under the Xi regime) but I'm just saying to keep your mind open to China as a vacation possibility.
https://seoulpatch.blogspot.com/search/label/china

Fair enough, my dad visited a few years ago and he's the most apolitical person I know. He enjoyed a few things like the Terracotta Army, The Great Wall and the transportation, but he complained bitterly how dirty the place was and how the air pollution made him sick.

The issue is that, save a few important historical and cultural sights, the cultural revolution destroyed almost everything that made China fascinating. I've spent many deskwarming hours binging over ADV China videos and China can be pretty beautiful in certain rural areas. The problem is... you can't stay the night at MANY hotels as they don't allow foreigners and China is HUGE so it's incredibly inconvenient for foreigners to travel outside the big cities and off the beaten path. Oh, and good luck getting Google or any international kind of navigation to work there. VPNs are always going to be slow.

China sounded fun to travel to 15yrs ago, but no longer.

If I want to experience authentic, traditional Chinese culture I'd rather go to Taiwan.
 


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5732

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu County, Taiwan (not part of China)
    more
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2021, 01:03:42 pm »
If I want to experience authentic, traditional Chinese culture I'd rather go to Taiwan.

Never a truer word spoken. The Chinese people pay lip service to their culture and anything 'cultural' is just another way to get rich. It is an incredibly materialistic society and it's everyman for himself with little social conscience.

To alter course a little, the world is at a crossroad now. It is the same crossroad now that it was in 1939 and the world thought it was not serious. Well we know how that worked out.

As I said, we are there again and unless the CCP is stopped (genocide, deathcamps, organ harvesting, human medical experiments, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Mongolia etc) will be our future. For those who think I am talking nonsense, well you just bury your head in the sand and listen to the CCP'S propaganda and see how that works out for you.

Make no mistake, Xi's plans are like Hitler's, world domination, anyone with half a brain cell can see that, but the world doesn't care because it's all about money, money so they will sell their souls for money but they don't realise they are selling the world to a demonic dictator who will stop at nothing to achieve his goals, even at the cost of millions upon millions of lives. The world needs to make a stand now. Sadly they will realise this when it is too late.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • Kayos
  • The Legend

    • 2150

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2021, 01:12:14 pm »
Fair enough, my dad visited a few years ago and he's the most apolitical person I know. He enjoyed a few things like the Terracotta Army, The Great Wall and the transportation, but he complained bitterly how dirty the place was and how the air pollution made him sick.

The issue is that, save a few important historical and cultural sights, the cultural revolution destroyed almost everything that made China fascinating. I've spent many deskwarming hours binging over ADV China videos and China can be pretty beautiful in certain rural areas. The problem is... you can't stay the night at MANY hotels as they don't allow foreigners and China is HUGE so it's incredibly inconvenient for foreigners to travel outside the big cities and off the beaten path. Oh, and good luck getting Google or any international kind of navigation to work there. VPNs are always going to be slow.

China sounded fun to travel to 15yrs ago, but no longer.

If I want to experience authentic, traditional Chinese culture I'd rather go to Taiwan.

Don't forget the VPNs are technically still illegal in China too, though the government the internet is a problem for foreigners and most use VPNs are were thinking of changing the rules about them, but not sure if anything has come of it yet.


  • tylerthegloob
  • The Legend

    • 2526

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2021, 01:16:03 pm »
selling the world to a demonic dictator
taking the whole "demonizing the enemy" thing and running with it, eh saffer?
more gg more skill


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3671

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2021, 01:21:24 pm »
If you're a F-visa holder in your 40s making 2.1 at a hagwon, that's a you problem not a Korea problem.

No, that's what the employers are offering.  No extra pay for experience.  It's definately a Korean problem. 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3671

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2021, 01:22:28 pm »
The problem is age 40 means the F points visa is harder to get in the first place now. Also harder to renew. Also renewal is only one year (or even less if income is too low). For me it was previously five years. Now gonna be one. Sucks to have to keep paying 120,000 every year rather than once every five years... plus accumulating necessary paperwork (of which there is a lot) then traveling to the immigration office for yearly renewal.

That's why my friend is leaving.  Korean BS not worth it to him plus shrinking pay with inflation factored in. 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3671

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2021, 01:24:54 pm »
Back in the mid 1980s, my step-brother and his wife (New Zealand Chinese) stopped off in China for a week on their way to the England. They had a suitcase half full of Bibles to give to long lost family members and who knows who else. They knew that this was illegal but did it anyway. Customs got them and hauled them over the coals for 24 hours, lucky not to get kicked out on the next flight. They got fined and the Bibles were confiscated of course. They said that the constant interrogation was so intense that they were both in tears. Ha! No sympathy. Bet they never did that again.

Who cares?  If you want to read a bible, read one.  If you want to read a Koran, read one.  If you want to read a MAXIM, read one.  It ought to be no ones business.  But, with China and many countries, you go to make some money for a time, then move on.  If and when I go, it will be for a few years, not decades. 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3671

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The ease of sending money out of China.
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2021, 01:26:40 pm »
90% of applicants currently can't get into China due to several hurdles deliberately put in place by the central government.

Some people can't even get an embassy appointment as the embassy where they are might be closed or not accepting applications. Right now all new applicants need something called a PU letter before they can even apply for a visa, which is issued out on a city by city (and even provincial) basis...most cities and provinces aren't even issuing PU letters right now, but some are. Even if one manages to jump through the hoops and secure a visa, they need to apply for permission to board from the local   Chinese embassy at the port of departure (strict rules on PCR tests etc), and even then those who follow the rules aren't always accepted at this final hurdle.

But with all that said, things are improving. Previously it would have been 99% of people not being able to enter China for work. China should open up more later this year if the current vaccination  trend continues (currently 7mil per day, doubling every 2-3 weeks).

It's opening up slowly now.  It was shut down for Corona.