The ease of sending money out of China.

Communist dictatorship doesn't affect foriegn English teachers that much. 

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but arbitrary arrests, detentions and deportations are very much a thing in China, depending on your countries monthly relationship with the CCP.

In a place like Saudi Arabia you could disagree with many things happening around you, but it's a guarantee that as long as you don't break the law, you'll be fine. In China, you've got no such guarantee, particularly these days with China rapidly becoming more hostile and nationalistic by the day.

Higher salaries, perhaps, but the cost of living HAS gone up, so how much are you able to bank? Aside from that, catastrophic air pollution, restrictions, censorship and working in a country where genocide is taking place would bother most people.

The approach I'm taking, and the one I'd recommend to anyone looking for more money in the ESL field, is to improve your qualifications to get higher paying jobs. Get a teaching license, CELTA, your MA in a teachable field or something and land a lucrative university gig in a 'not China' country. If you've been sitting on nothing but an undergrad BA for years then you've got no right to bitch about pay.

Do what you want, but try not to grandstand about going to China, it's not impressing anyone.

gotta factor a good VPN into your cost of living, dude. and factor in dealing with scummy tencent

Communist dictatorship doesn't affect foreign English teachers that much.

Sadly you are wrong there. I left at the beginning of 2019 and things had got exponentially worse for foreigners in the 2 and a bit years I was there. In the beginning it was all cool, the government didn't bother you but towards the end it was getting nasty and I am not an American but I was made (by the government, NOT the people) to feel unwelcome.

Things like not being able to buy a bus ticket to the next city simply because the official didn't like foreigners. Having the police turn up at 11 pm at your apartment wanting to know where you had been and where you had dinner. After I told them where, one had the gall to say 'prove it', luckily for me I had the payment on Alipay to show him. Once a month called into the directors office to fill in a form stating my religious beliefs, immigration turning up regularly to check your visa, having to get permission from the police to cut a spare key for my apartment, not being able to leave the city I lived in because the CCP was having a conference in Beijing, 2 hours by plane away. Having full on body searches when getting on a subway train. Having to show your passport when going to hike in a national park, etc,etc.

Nationalism was on the rise in 2019 and I can just imagine how bad it must be right now especially if you are from the US, Australia or Canada.

It just became so unpleasant and that besides the moral issues around genocide, organ harvesting etc.

I want to state VERY CLEARLY that I was treated like a celebrity by the Chinese people and I still have many dear friends there which rate among the kindest people I have ever met but the CCP................ ....

I was very sad to leave my friends and students there, as I said, awesome people but in hindsight I am glad because in all honesty I could not stay there now knowing what is going on with the genocide etc.

I visited China in 2016 and 2018.

As a Canadian I would not today.

Communist dictatorship doesn't affect foriegn English teachers that much.

You complain about everything in Korea and act like Joe Biden is personally out to get you.

Also maybe wait until you've spent a few months actually living and working in China before acting like an expert about it. I expect a lot of "I didn't know what I was expecting" posts when you move there, assuming you can get your commie internet to work.

You complain about everything in Korea and act like Joe Biden is personally out to get you.

Also maybe wait until you've spent a few months actually living and working in China before acting like an expert about it. I expect a lot of "I didn't know what I was expecting" posts when you move there, assuming you can get your commie internet to work.

Yeah, he keeps complaining about having to follow silly rules (I do too) and having to "stick up for yourself"... if he thinks he's going to experience anything better in China, he's got another thing coming.
Confusedsaffa's experience confirmed everything I learned about China. Cops are going to regularly bang on your door at 11pm, barge in, demand to see all your papers and interrogate you like you're a sex predator. That slightly higher salary (debatable) comes at the cost of your dignity, Hangkook.

You complain about everything in Korea and act like Joe Biden is personally out to get you.

Also maybe wait until you've spent a few months actually living and working in China before acting like an expert about it. I expect a lot of "I didn't know what I was expecting" posts when you move there, assuming you can get your commie internet to work.

Joe Biden is out to get me?  Joe Biden can't get his way out of a paper bag.  Back to senile sleep grandpa. 

How about bigging up ideas for working in the West as well?

There are in fact disadvantages from being away for so long.

And it is possible to make money there.

The job market for English teaching is on an overall downward trajectory and has been for decades. The decline is slight and gradual, but it’s getting worse and worse across the globe. Overall, that is absolutely true. The future for the industry is gonna get worse bit by bit as time goes on. Less opportunities. Might be wise to get out before it’s too late and one is older without skills to do anything else as a decent career. Worth thinking about at least. There are 200 countries on earth. How many have great ESL / EFL opportunities? A hell of a lot less than before.

Yeah, he keeps complaining about having to follow silly rules (I do too) and having to "stick up for yourself"... if he thinks he's going to experience anything better in China, he's got another thing coming.
Confusedsaffa's experience confirmed everything I learned about China. Cops are going to regularly bang on your door at 11pm, barge in, demand to see all your papers and interrogate you like you're a sex predator. That slightly higher salary (debatable) comes at the cost of your dignity, Hangkook.

Years ago I saw a comment on Dave's that was something like "if you thought you were getting screwed over in Korea, you haven't seen anything until Big Red has its way with you."

How about bigging up ideas for working in the West as well?

There are in fact disadvantages from being away for so long.

And it is possible to make money there.

The job market for English teaching is on an overall downward trajectory and has been for decades. The decline is slight and gradual, but it’s getting worse and worse across the globe. Overall, that is absolutely true. The future for the industry is gonna get worse bit by bit as time goes on. Less opportunities. Might be wise to get out before it’s too late and one is older without skills to do anything else as a decent career. Worth thinking about at least. There are 200 countries on earth. How many have great ESL / EFL opportunities? A hell of a lot less than before.

There are actually a lot more ESL jobs than before that pay well.  Vietnam and China are much more prominent than 10 to 20 years ago.  There were jobs there that were low paying for backpackers.  But if they want uni educated grads, they got to pay.  There have always been low paying jobs too.  Some European countries, South America, etc.  The difference there is English is more of a niche market and not in demand by the whole population.  Japan kind of leans this way too even though they have academies in Tokyo.  But much of the country, folks want to live through translators.  A lot of folks there don't care about learning English though.  Korea, Vietnam, China, and others do want English.  Mothers want it for their kids too.  Including meeting a native speaker.  But there are too many teachers in Korea.  Korean employers have had it too good since the Great Recession began, though there is more slack in the market over the last few years.  Either way, there are new options that didn't exist as well as now even 5 years ago.  Chinese and Vietnamese wages 5 plus years ago were not as exciting as now.  Vietnam you can find similar wages to Korea with experience, a degree, and an in class TESOL certificate.  It has a cheaper living cost though.  Chinese wages were only 15,000 rmb range until a couple of years ago.  Now, 25,000 can be found.  There are also a lot more room and apartments included in contracts than before. 

More and more folks here are leaving for China due to the pay.  Just make sure you get the Z Visa and don't go on a temporary tourist Visa.  Walk away from any recruiter that pushes that on you.  You will be screwed for sure then.  As for jobs back home, you all can look for them yourselves online.  The economy in the US was finally recovering before Coronavirus.  If you could have found a job outside the overpriced coastal cities, you could have lived well depending on the field.  I would have retrained had I gone home, maybe retrained and just worked with my hands blue collar for the quick cash.  I have no snobbery about jobs or status only pay and whether I can tolerate it well enough.  ESL jobs don't pay well in the west or they didn't use to.  That may have changed now.  At least this was the case for the majority of the jobs. 

I never chose a country that ESL didn't pay well.  I wasn't a rich kid who could afford to back pack and work for pennies.  That wouldn't pay off my loans.  It's why I chose Korea over Japan at the time, though I did have some Japanese job offers too.  I wouldn't say, Korea has fallen to Japan's level yet.  Though incrementally you see it.  More expensive and one way flights instead of two way flights.  Housing still included but allowances still the same even with rising rents and other costs.  Prices still okay out in the provinces though they are slowly rising too in some places.  (On the other hand, some wages being offered in Japan are higher than I have seen for starting wages.  Was 250k Yen and often less.  Nowadays, I had seen 270 Yen and slightly more in some cases.)

Either way, no reason to be scared of an employer or coteacher here.  If you're unfairly canned or non renewed, you can get a job elsewhere and for more money (no matter how much that triggers).  Korea has more rules in the public schools and are even starting to be enforced down in the provinces.  For years, many new ridiculous rules were put into the newer contracts but ignored in some places.  Though if you worked in Seoul public schools, you had to follow everything to the letter and got lower pay in return (even lost the renewal allowance).  Point is more rules and no extra pay in return.  Chinese public schools no desk warming and no paying for lunches etc.  The way it use to be here.  No desk warming and I never had to pay for school lunches.  Lots of lattitude use to be given here.  Chinese public schools like that now.  And more money. 

No need to repeatedly troll me for passing on some of my research to help other teachers.  If some of you are secretly recruiters, then start recruiting for China too.  Problem solved.

Interesting ideas you have about trolling. When someone says they wouldn't go to China or they are satisifed with their circumstances in Korea, you call them losers, secret recruiters, hagwon owners and having stockholm syndrome.

Trolling is pointed out all too frequently. An off the cuff pun is not trolling. A quippy remark is not trolling. Trolling is intentionally and repeatedly being antagonising to drag someone down into a fight and to keep them there.

If people feel you are repeatedly putting false or misleading information up, and repeatedly  disagree with you (Hangook), you somehow consider it trolling.  If you keep making the same statements and people keep pointing out the flaws in those statements there is no trolling going on.  And when you get upset and attack people, that is called being triggered.  It's very clear you're triggered by people disagreeing with you and calling out your posts.  You somehow feel that if you make the same post again and again people should just give up and let you get away with posting exaggerated information. 

On another point of accuracy, it is misleading to take your renewal bonus and severance pay and spread it out over the course of the year to bump up your monthly salary.  Your monthly salary is what gets deposited into your account on pay day each month.  Everything together is your yearly compensation.  You're always comparing China to Korea with an inaccurate monthly salary.  That's not helpful.   

If people feel you are repeatedly putting false or misleading information up, and repeatedly  disagree with you (Hangook), you somehow consider it trolling.  If you keep making the same statements and people keep pointing out the flaws in those statements there is no trolling going on.  And when you get upset and attack people, that is called being triggered.  It's very clear you're triggered by people disagreeing with you and calling out your posts.  You somehow feel that if you make the same post again and again people should just give up and let you get away with posting exaggerated information. 

On another point of accuracy, it is misleading to take your renewal bonus and severance pay and spread it out over the course of the year to bump up your monthly salary.  Your monthly salary is what gets deposited into your account on pay day each month.  Everything together is your yearly compensation.  You're always comparing China to Korea with an inaccurate monthly salary.  That's not helpful.  

Actually, I posted the links that have the salaries right on them.  It says what it says.  Not making anything up.  (All I do is run it through google and it tells me what it equals in Korean won.  Maybe Google is lying about the exchange rate?)  China's monthly pay for the jobs I post as an example is what it pays.  I don't add any annual bonus or anything else.  I posted a couple of examples that also had free housing and free flight or flight reimbursement.  I didn't mention cheaper living cost outside a tier one city which I could have,  I have been pretty honest.  Not sure what you are talking about and still not sure why you and 5 others are so defensive about it and argue over it so much.  Maybe you should put this energy into raising your wages if you love Korea this much and want to stay forever. 

Scroll the page link.  RMB 20,000 to 25,000 to 30,000  ze=" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/high-paid-teaching-positions-of-international-4?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=

It's all there.  I am not exaggerating anything. 

Another exaggeration perhaps?

ze=" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/salary-25000-rmb-all-benefits-25-lessons-no-o-2?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=

Private kindy 25000 to 35000 RMB with no housing included, but high salary.

ze=" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/beijing-high-paying-opportunity-to-teach-youn-3?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=

Still trying to figure out what I am exaggerating and being dishonest about?

35,000 rmb is 6 million won.  First link lists deductions just above 10 per cent.  (Mine in Korea are 13 per cent nowadays.)  Apartment in Beijing depending on where you want to live and how much luxury you want or whether you want a room mate or not will be 3 to 8 thousand rmb.  Again it depends how high end you want to be.  But 4 or 5 thousand or less is easy enough to pay for rent.  If you pay rent, ask for 25,000 rmb and up.  If school pays rent and gives apt then ask for 20,000 rmb and up. 

Actually, I posted the links that have the salaries right on them.  It says what it says.  Not making anything up.  (All I do is run it through google and it tells me what it equals in Korean won.  Maybe Google is lying about the exchange rate?)  China's monthly pay for the jobs I post as an example is what it pays.  I don't add any annual bonus or anything else.  I posted a couple of examples that also had free housing and free flight or flight reimbursement.  I didn't mention cheaper living cost outside a tier one city which I could have,  I have been pretty honest.  Not sure what you are talking about and still not sure why you and 5 others are so defensive about it and argue over it so much.  Maybe you should put this energy into raising your wages if you love Korea this much and want to stay forever. 

Scroll the page link.  RMB 20,000 to 25,000 to 30,000  ze=" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.eslcafe.com/postajob-detail/high-paid-teaching-positions-of-international-4?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=

It's all there.  I am not exaggerating anything. 

It's how you tabulate your monthly Korean salary which is inaccurate.  You keep making the point that you're ok here (so are others, including myself) but you falsely inflate your monthly salary.  You have on several occasions said you factor in your renewal bonus and severance into your monthly salary.  But, your monthly salary is what is paid on pay day.  You can't factor in severance or bonuses.  The point being, you are pushing others towards China, yet defending yourself staying here with an inflated monthly salary to justify you not taking your own advice.  It's why I don't think you really want to make the move to the land of milk and dumplings.  Anyone here with a car or their own housing knows you can get out of those obligations in a few months.  You don't need two years to wind things down.  It gets a little tiring hearing some say "China, China, China!" followed by "Oh, well I can't go right now, but it's the best move for YOU." 

I don't expect you to even make an attempt at understanding an opposing view, so, carry on. 

Avoid lower paying chains like EF unless they raise their pay.  12 to 15 thousand RMB with no housing.  No thanks.  Lots of better pay to take advantage of.  Also stay away from universities, lower pay as well and cancelled classes no pay apparently.  Public schools make them give you some lower pay in exchange for renewing the contract for the summer.  But overall the year average pay is still higher than Korea.  If you want full 12 month pay, work in a kindergarten or hakwon there and get the full 12 months pay.  But publics give full pay for 10 months some for 9.  They are desperate.  Drive a hard bargain for yourself.  I will ask for 25,000 for 10 months and partial pay for 2 months summer in exchange for renewing and free housing when I do it.  The demand is high and the supply is low.  Plenty of publics in China.  If one won't play ball, I move onto the next.  Their loss.  Either way, good money to be made as of late.  (I wouldn't have done 4 or 5 years ago for 15,000 rmb.) 

I read one can’t be hired in China unless already in China due to border restrictions. I guess that’s what’s causing the supply shortage. Some leaving with no more coming in. How many want to stay for more than one year? Most don’t I assume. So, harder to get Western teachers.

It's how you tabulate your monthly Korean salary which is inaccurate.  You keep making the point that you're ok here (so are others, including myself) but you falsely inflate your monthly salary.  You have on several occasions said you factor in your renewal bonus and severance into your monthly salary.  But, your monthly salary is what is paid on pay day.  You can't factor in severance or bonuses.  The point being, you are pushing others towards China, yet defending yourself staying here with an inflated monthly salary to justify you not taking your own advice.  It's why I don't think you really want to make the move to the land of milk and dumplings.  Anyone here with a car or their own housing knows you can get out of those obligations in a few months.  You don't need two years to wind things down.  It gets a little tiring hearing some say "China, China, China!" followed by "Oh, well I can't go right now, but it's the best move for YOU." 

I don't expect you to even make an attempt at understanding an opposing view, so, carry on. 

Not sure what you're getting on about. 

Level 1 plus 2.7 million won.  Rural allowance 100 k.  Multiple school allowance 3 plus schools 150K

2.7 plus 100k plus 150k equals 2.95 million straight pay.  Also get 400K housing which I didn't count.  I do some overtime every year which I do add on.  It equals an average of 100K a month.  So, 3.05 million pay which goes into my account each month.  Well some months higher and some months lower, but that was the only thing I averaged out.  I do not add renewal allowance of 2 million won.  Nor did I add severance which I do not cash out every year.  2 million renewal allowance (which the SMOE hasn't paid in years) does equal 166,666 won per month if you wanted to average it out with your pay (which I don't)

Either way, I do make 3 million excluding allowances and housing allowance.  (Some months well over 3 and some just slightly under 3).  Nothing exaggerated or lied about.  SMOE and other Metro cities do pay even lower and do rip people off more on pay.  But that's nothing to do with me.  Rural EPIK pays more and they set this pay up because just before the Great Recession, they were desperate for teachers so they upped the pay to get people.  They aren't so desperate anymore.  But if they cut the pay I'd be gone.  Do, your own EPIK online research if you wish and search it out for yourself.  I get paid what I get paid. 

I am noticing the pinch recently with the inflation coming along.  I couldn't imagine doing anything on 2.1, especially if you want a roomy apartment, a good used car, or anything else for quality of life.  Korea really does need to up it's salaries and if it doesn't, either accept it or go to China or elsewhere.  If Korea doesn't up the salaries including my own over the next couple of years, I will have to move on too.  If I were at 2.1, I'd already be gone.  I backed up everything I said. 

I read one can’t be hired in China unless already in China due to border restrictions. I guess that’s what’s causing the supply shortage. Some leaving with no more coming in. How many want to stay for more than one year? Most don’t I assume. So, harder to get Western teachers.

One of my friends applied in February and he expects to be there in summer.  It does take longer to get documents and application process.  My friend hired someone in North America a service to do all the legwork with Chinese embassy there.  Also, I spoke to a couple of recruiters and they said it is opening up.  Some ads on Dave's do say outsiders welcome now.  There are some ads which say only in China, but if you get your application in now, prob by fall or whenever you can get over there.  I will renew this year until the Corona issue clears up and I am at a higher base pay for now.  My friend was doing your standard 2.1 in Seoul and he was sick of it.