The ease of sending money out of China.

If I want to experience authentic, traditional Chinese culture I'd rather go to Taiwan.

Never a truer word spoken. The Chinese people pay lip service to their culture and anything 'cultural' is just another way to get rich. It is an incredibly materialistic society and it's everyman for himself with little social conscience.

To alter course a little, the world is at a crossroad now. It is the same crossroad now that it was in 1939 and the world thought it was not serious. Well we know how that worked out.

As I said, we are there again and unless the CCP is stopped (genocide, deathcamps, organ harvesting, human medical experiments, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Mongolia etc) will be our future. For those who think I am talking nonsense, well you just bury your head in the sand and listen to the CCP'S propaganda and see how that works out for you.

Make no mistake, Xi's plans are like Hitler's, world domination, anyone with half a brain cell can see that, but the world doesn't care because it's all about money, money so they will sell their souls for money but they don't realise they are selling the world to a demonic dictator who will stop at nothing to achieve his goals, even at the cost of millions upon millions of lives. The world needs to make a stand now. Sadly they will realise this when it is too late.

I share little agreement with CCP goals.  Though Chinese people I have met seem like very socialable and friendly people.  Puts some other nearby countries to shame.  However, as an English teacher, when you steer clear of politics, you have lots of freedom there, save for an odd spot check. 

Anyhow, I think the pay in Taiwan sucks.  A few teachers left China and had to work harder and struggle to get enough hours.  Taiwan does have a slightly cheaper living cost than Korea, but you work for hours part time and pay your own rent.  (Public schools require a Bachelor of Education even though you are doing ESL and not actual teaching where you grade the kids, call the parents, elad a homeroom, etc.  Dumb.) 

You will be poor in Taiwan, though it would be great to go for a couple of weeks to visit on vacation.  If I were going to be poor for a year and only a year, I'd hit Japan maybe their far north area.  But, I doubt I would do that though.  Got to be able to afford to live.  I like having money in my pocket intead of struggling.  I did it years ago.  I wish not to repeat being poor with no money in my pocket.  No thanks. 

You will be poor in Taiwan,

What absolute horse manure. I get the equivalent of 3.3 million KRW and my friend who works in a private school gets about the same with 20 teaching hours in a week, mornings only which means he has the rest of the day to do privates. So he is smiling all the way to the bank.

No, that's what the employers are offering.  No extra pay for experience.  It's definately a Korean problem. 

What qualifications do you have?

Many schools hiring "real" teachers and paying big bucks in places like the UAE don't really count ESL experience as experience. They want experience in teaching a particular curriculum, typically the one being taught at their school. It's not always nice to hear that serious educational institutions don't care about your experience with bomb games or co-teaching an unrecognised curriculum, but that's reality if you want a lucrative teaching position.

So, aside from being older, not as pretty and not knowing how to spell 'definite', what makes you better than the hundred thousand 22yr old undergrad kids going into the ESL field?

So, aside from being older, not as pretty and not knowing how to spell 'definite', what makes you better than the hundred thousand 22yr old undergrad kids going into the ESL field?

^holy_shit aristocrat, you didn't have to end this man's whole career

I do wonder why someone who spends their time bashing the libs and the woke for licking the boot of China is so eager to get people to go to China and is willing to help teach a future generation of fentanyl manufacturers, Africa exploiters, Uighur reeducators, and outright spies and soldiers how to speak our language in order to defeat us. All that for an extra million won in wages a month.

Oh wait, I know how they'll justify it- "I'm secretly changing things from the inside mannnn!!!! When I showed them an American character on my bomb game, that broke the conformity."

You know what? We should set a deadline. Anyone working for China after that time should have their citizenship revoked and be declared persona non grata.

However, as an English teacher, when you steer clear of politics, you have lots of freedom there, save for an odd spot check. 

I'd just like to remind everyone that hangook hasn't spent a single minute working in China.

Have you looked into opportunities in your home country? Back in 2019, I was considering a few offers from Chinese schools. The offers sounded pretty good at the time-16,000 to 20,0000 RMB monthly and housing. However, I chose to start a new career in the US.  I wasn't planning on being an ESL lifer and didn't want to keep delaying the inevitable. Now I make nearly triple what I was making in Korea. I have no regrets about turning down those offers.

I agree wholeheartedly. the Korean government has too much big government influence over every aspect of the market, and the minimum wage here is pathetic. The creeping socialised agenda (BEGUN in Europe, IMPORTED to America and SPREAD throughout the globe) is taking root. Time to hit the ejector seat.

So you're saving up for a SpaceX ticket to Mars?

I'd just like to remind everyone that hangook hasn't spent a single minute working in China.

It's way more than the odd spot check, believe me as one who lived there. So Major is correct, work there first then make statements like "the odd spot check", 'lots of freedom'. Sadly Hangook has been mislead.

It's way more than the odd spot check, believe me as one who lived there. So Major is correct, work there first then make statements like "the odd spot check", 'lots of freedom'. Sadly Hangook has been mislead.

To be fair, it could be that South Africans get it worse (the regular visits from police at 11pm etc.) than someone with a EU or US passport. Being incredibly racist and ignorant, it seems the perception there is that anyone with a passport from the African continent is seen as black, poor, nefarious and likely an illegal immigrant.

Still, we've got at least 2 random Canadians guys who're still in Chinese prisons for "espionage" and nothing is more fickle than Chinese politics.

Hangook's idea that if you "steer clear of politics" you'll be fine is quite hilarious. "Politics", in that cesspit, are going to find you whether you like it or not, mate.

To be fair, it could be that South Africans get it worse (the regular visits from police at 11pm etc.) than someone with a EU or US passport. Being incredibly racist and ignorant, it seems the perception there is that anyone with a passport from the African continent is seen as black, poor, nefarious and likely an illegal immigrant.

That would be true for black Africans perhaps but I can tell you that the checks carried out on us had nothing to do with nationality, it had to do with being a foreigner.

You will be poor in Taiwan,

What absolute horse manure. I get the equivalent of 3.3 million KRW and my friend who works in a private school gets about the same with 20 teaching hours in a week, mornings only which means he has the rest of the day to do privates. So he is smiling all the way to the bank.

Lots of vids from people who went there and said that.  Also the salaries didn't look so great.  I am not talking about people with education degrees.  I am talking about ESL.

What qualifications do you have?

Many schools hiring "real" teachers and paying big bucks in places like the UAE don't really count ESL experience as experience. They want experience in teaching a particular curriculum, typically the one being taught at their school. It's not always nice to hear that serious educational institutions don't care about your experience with bomb games or co-teaching an unrecognised curriculum, but that's reality if you want a lucrative teaching position.

So, aside from being older, not as pretty and not knowing how to spell 'definite', what makes you better than the hundred thousand 22yr old undergrad kids going into the ESL field?

Asides from a smartphone misspelling of a word, what other nonsense do you have?  (Honestly, it's always the most arrogant and stuck up that rather than actually having a good argument have to pick apart one mispelled word in a language with a million different exceptions and words that come from so many multiple languages in it's origins are bound to have the odd mispelled word.  But if that feeds your arrogant pipe dream, so be it.) 

Teachers experienced with children and doing many activities certainly can teach but an arrogant condescending attitude from ignorant stuck up foreigners is part of why the Koreans get away with the exploitation.  Like they are the House Slaves or something.   Apologists for sure.  The truth is someone who has taught for years has been great at knowing how to run a class, have fun activities, can deliver a lesson, and are fun for the kids.  Half of these old twits in ESL or who had a Masters of TESOL or whatever were the most boring nerdiest people I've ever met in my life.  I am surprised they stayed employed.  Kids probably complained about boring teacher.  It does actually take some skill to teach ESL and keep kids attention and interest as well as to manage a class.  Some jackass employer hiring a kid on the cheap then complaining about that kid's teaching ability has no one to blame but himself.  That's what he gets for being a greedy dick hakwon owner.  Either way more pay for experience ought to be the norm and if it isn't folks will leave once other options will become available. 

I just messaged a recruiter.  She did say they are hiring from outside China now.  There are some hoops to jump through and a couple of extra paperwork steps when you send money home from the bank each month, but you get paid to put up with it.  I posted many examples of jobs above. 

Though I am sorry to say that they won't hire South Africans right now due to the strain of covid from there right now.  Hopefully, that will clear up soon too. 

Asides from a smartphone misspelling of a word, what other nonsense do you have?  (Honestly, it's always the most arrogant and stuck up that rather than actually having a good argument have to pick apart one mispelled word in a language with a million different exceptions and words that come from so many multiple languages in it's origins are bound to have the odd mispelled word.  But if that feeds your arrogant pipe dream, so be it.) 

Teachers experienced with children and doing many activities certainly can teach but an arrogant condescending attitude from ignorant stuck up foreigners is part of why the Koreans get away with the exploitation.  Like they are the House Slaves or something.   Apologists for sure.  The truth is someone who has taught for years has been great at knowing how to run a class, have fun activities, can deliver a lesson, and are fun for the kids.  Half of these old twits in ESL or who had a Masters of TESOL or whatever were the most boring nerdiest people I've ever met in my life.  I am surprised they stayed employed.  Kids probably complained about boring teacher.  It does actually take some skill to teach ESL and keep kids attention and interest as well as to manage a class.  Some jackass employer hiring a kid on the cheap then complaining about that kid's teaching ability has no one to blame but himself.  That's what he gets for being a greedy dick hakwon owner.  Either way more pay for experience ought to be the norm and if it isn't folks will leave once other options will become available. 

You make it very difficult to feel sorry for someone like you.

While having never taught in China nor Taiwan, you claim to know better than a man who has taught in both countries.

If you think you're entitled to higher pay, your C.V needs to reflect that you qualify for it. Since you've evaded my questions about qualifications, I'm going to assume that you only have an undergraduate degree... and there's nothing wrong with that. To people who hate studying and are content with a 3mil cap that's cool. Nothing wrong with teaching ESL in Korea either, no need to tie you career to your self worth, but you're demanding people pay you more money so here we go:

- You were born in 1977, I assume.
- Lets assume you graduated when you were 23
- That means, you're around 45 and in the past 22yrs you've done jack sh*t to improve your qualifications as a teacher.
- A prospective employer is going to look at your application and see this massive gap and deduce that you're no particularly
  serious about improving your craft.

Then you have the downright arrogance and audacity to sneer at educated people who spent time, money and effort into studying to become better teachers as being boring, compared to you because you're more fun and interesting... you know what the kids also find fun and interesting? Jesters, clowns, monkeys, comedians and entertainers. Consider those fields.
Don't preach to us about what it takes to teach ESL, everyone here has at least 7yrs of ESL experience under their belt. ESL in South Korea really doesn't demand much. It's a frustrating job, but not demanding in the slightest. It would seem that a BA graduate is all it takes to teach key expressions from a YBM textbook with a few flashy games thrown in. Keeping students interested only requires a BA graduate. Getting academic results out of them requires a certified teacher WITH a solid curriculum AND a lot more authority than we're given.

You think THAT is what certified teachers, teaching American, British or South African curriculums are doing?
The day a real teacher's responsibilities, classroom management, curriculum and lesson planning are put on your desk is the day you're going to sh*t a chicken!

I give Koreans a lot of sh*t but do you know what they do when they want more money or a promotion? They do courses and postgrad work. They don't whine and complain, they improve themselves and work towards the money.

So, go to China. Like South Korea, they're not looking for you to produce academic results, they just want another funny little foreigner to make them laugh.

_{^holyshit aristocrat, you didn't have to end this man's whole career}^again

Lots of vids from people who went there and said that.  Also the salaries didn't look so great.  I am not talking about people with education degrees.  I am talking about ESL.

Some of my friends aren't licenced teachers and they are not poor. Not sure where you are getting your information from but it is wrong.

ESL in Taiwan has been on the decline for a while. Oversaturated market. Harder to get a good job while at the same time adjusted for inflation wages are going down. But the term poor is relative. For a South African the pay is good. Average wages in South Africa are roughly $6k a year.

Hangook77, you are spending an awful amount of your time trying to convince people that China is the better option. Well maybe for you it is but for most folk here it isn't (CCP, internet censorship, lack of personal freedom, danger of being arrested without cause, moral reasons etc, etc).

No one is telling you not to go and if you want to go it's your choice but don't go in blindly and think it is all rosy and pink unicorns. It is not. It is a big challenge to live there as a foreigner these days, way harder than it was for me.

The CCP wants to stay in power forever (1000 year Reich) and they can only do so by keeping massive control over their people and making them believe that theirs is the only true system for happiness.

How do they do that? Massive nationalism through indoctrination. It starts at kindergarten and never lets up. Walk into any classroom and you will find propaganda books littering the classroom, it's in their curriculum, it's in their faces 24/7 and though the majority of people don't give a flying fig about the CCP, they will kowtow because they don't want their lives disrupted BUT there is a large % of real hardcore nationalists that will do anything to deify the CCP plus there are now incentives by the CCP to report your neighbor should they show any disregard for the CCP. 

So, as a foreigner, you may be completely innocent but some dude doesn't like you (took his girlfriend or something like that), you are a sitting duck. You won't get legal representation or even if you do it is token only and you are dead in the water. The conviction rate in China is almost 100%.

So, by all mean go, but really think carefully about it.  There is a verse from the Bible that comes to mind ( I am not Bible punching) just using it as an illustration.  What use is it that a man gains the whole world but loses his soul..

ESL in Taiwan has been on the decline for a while. Oversaturated market. Harder to get a good job while at the same time adjusted for inflation wages are going down. But the term poor is relative. For a South African the pay is good. Average wages in South Africa are roughly $6k a year.

L I, you are here? You speak with such authority. Just to point out your error. Recently the government has declared that English will be their 2nd language and they are pumping millions into English education, so don't be so sure that it's on the decline. My program in one county will get 300 additional teachers this coming academic year.