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  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1901

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #60 on: April 26, 2021, 01:28:27 pm »
Again, not a personal attack but speaking to a mindset in general.  Big difference.  If you can't understand the difference, I can't help you.  Criticing a group with a certain defeated mindset versus an individual.  Either way, if you can't have an arguement without personal attacks then step back.  Cause one day you will mouth off the wrong person on a personal basis, in person, and there'll be nothing to save you then. 


It's up to the person on the receiving end to decide if they take it as a personal insult, as you demonstrated so ably with your freak out and call to arms today.  I light-heartedly  called you porky based on you being called overweight and obese in that other thread and you reverted into a grade niner calling me out afterschool to fight.  Who could've predicted that over the top reaction to a little jibe, but you took it as a personal insult.  I know you've made attempts to personally insult me and others on this board, and you know it as well, despite any claims otherwise.  I don't mind if you do.  Go for it.  You can't argue your points so if you feel better threatening violence or whatever, I'm alright with that.  I didn't report you to a mod to get you booted. 


Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #61 on: April 26, 2021, 01:48:56 pm »
I still can't understand why my criticism of low wages and pointing out of alternatives triggers you and gets under your skin so much.  Makes no sense.  I post for young readers on here. 
I think that what people want is for you to put up or shut up. Like are you doing anything to actually organize and such? Or are you just talk?


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2868

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2021, 02:59:01 pm »
I think that what people want is for you to put up or shut up. Like are you doing anything to actually organize and such? Or are you just talk?

Like what?  Contacting the POE and making the point?  Speaking to public officials whom I know and have gotten to know over the years?  Passing on information to younger teachers who are unaware and to open their eyes to what else is out there?  On different facebook groups, on here, on daves, on reddit?  Korea was the best gig in this part of town up until a few years ago.  It is surprising who has come along to challenge it. 

Even 9 or 10 years ago when many of us first started hearing of China, the wages were still not quite up to snuff  and it use to be hard to transfer money out.  (Nowadays, you can transfer money out on a legal Z visa, though it does require more paperwork than Korea.  But if you can send out 3 to 4 times the amount of money, then a little more effort is worth it.)  My how times have changed. 

There is no shame in helping young people who don't know about conditions here and that recruiters are milking things that were true 10 or 15 years ago and no longer are.  They still make the same claims and never updated their information to reflect the new reality.  So, a young person comes over thinking they will make oodles of cash and get other perks.  So, I point out the truth and all the options as a favor to help them.  I would have wanted someone to help me when I first got here.  When I made 2.1 million it was worth a lot.  My current wages are probably almost that now but starting to lose ground even at this.  So, in a year or two I will have to make a decision myself.  But most young folks are not being hired at 3 million (upper 2's or low 3s). 


  • Yana201
  • Waygookin

    • 21

    • November 29, 2018, 09:52:57 am
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #63 on: April 26, 2021, 06:29:38 pm »
But most ESL teachers in Korea aren't actual qualified teachers nor skilled in the sense of the profession's requirements, which is why the pay is now hovering around national minimum wage level. Moreover, Korea literally has an overabundance of university educated graduates (something like 70%+ of the population go on to study at undergrad level), so "higher level skills" in Korea would be more like bog standard level skills.

The designation of skilled and unskilled is the byproduct of classist policies designed to deliberately underpay workers. All labour is skilled. I would argue a lot of the labour we class as "unskilled" are actually some of the most important in society. Look at the list of "essential workers" from the past year around the world and how vital they have been to keeping entire countries running.

Yes, teachers, doctors and engineers are highly skilled...but so are janitors, farmhands and manual labourers. There's a reason 3D jobs in Korea are now paying well relative to E2 jobs...because the skills and workers needed for those jobs have been deemed as more important to society than teaching ABCs to Minsu and his dad.

Heck, bus drivers are now on 3mil+ and street cleaners 3.7 - 4mil per month.

I agree that the “unskilled” category of workers are important for society and they do possess a skillset to do their jobs, but usually that skillset doesn’t require as much effort or expertise and investment as becoming a proper teacher, engineer, or doctor. These are long term important careers that help advance society and improve the world, so they should get and deserve a higher salary.
I don’t disagree with the fact that janitors and bus drivers and street cleaners are of importance and value to society.... they are necessary and therefore, should be paid a decent livable wage for their hard work and efforts....but their skill sets do not take as much effort, or time, or investment. For example, bus driver ...... all you need to to is learn to drive and a high school diploma, and Street cleaner .... all you gotta do is know how to use a broom.... The reason why their salary is bumped up is not due to their skill ... but, as an incentive for people to apply as the job is seen as low quality in society and doesn’t come with respect... but it is a job that needs to be done. One way to get someone to perform something undesirable is to offer perks or a big reward. 

In Canada there are a lot of unskilled jobs in Alberta in the oil sands that pay a lot of money, not because of the value of the skillset but to attract workers to perform an undesirable job. If the pay was low ... not many would want to come out and stand outside in -50 degree winter weather for 12 hours a day for 7days a week. The engineers working there though makes hundreds of thousands more ... not as an incentive but for their skillset that they invested in and for their higher knowledge.

Yes, unfortunately the ESL market here has a lot of applicants that are under qualified for this teaching position.

Being a trained and qualified ESL/ EFL instructor with a graduate credential in Teaching English, undergoing 1.5 years in teacher training and working at the academic centre and as an instructor in my university, and teaching newly arrived refugees coming into the country.....I am shocked skill level of some of the ESL teachers... and also their attitudes.
It seems that my school in particular, after working with me, has realized that the previous NETS were severely under skilled.... The NET before me (a super shy introverted girl who couldn’t even make eye contact with any of the students let alone motivate, assess, and teach classes some how management to pass her EPIK interview and come here!

The standards need to improve! The low level 20’s graduates should all be put on the ‘Talk’ program scholarship pay of 1.5 mill and only those teachers coming in with the proper skill set (I.e specialized training in ESL/ education) should be paid the higher salaries of 3.1 mill plus....


Maybe this EPIK/ Hagwon ESL is an unskilled labour here like McDonald’s now-a-days ....               
Now that I think about it, after outlining my qualifications and job history in the EPIK interview, I think my co-ordinator did try to low key warn me .... by saying you have a lot going for you back home, why do you want to come here?

I guess I was too clueless at that time about the realities of ESL here in Korea ... and that skillset isn’t rewarded the same way as back home.....
Back at my university, we had a few different types of ‘instructors’ with the lowest being peer-tutors (undergrad students with high grades that could help their peers), they were paid at minimum wage of 14.00 bucks an hours, there there were Master students from the Creative writing/ English program and those like me with graduate credentials in ESL who made 26 ~ 30 bucks and hour...and then there were the professors / managers who made 60 bucks.... so skillset was recognized and rewarded accordingly...

Korea really needs to do a re-evaluation of the types of people it selects for English teaching and select those with appropriate skill sets....

A proper teacher is not just and educator but also a monitor, and motivator, as well as an assessor who knows how to be flexible on the spot and tend to many different learning styles to aid learning....
it is unfortunate that most here lack the skillset to even properly teach the abc’s to minsu and his dad ...

Also, teachers coming here should be able to speak a decent level of Korean.... and use the language as a teaching tool to aid learning of lower level student! It works wonders (so Korean ability is also another skill set that should be included)


  • Renma
  • Adventurer

    • 65

    • September 01, 2014, 06:09:42 am
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2021, 12:43:27 pm »
It seems I have to keep repeating myself.  Ten years ago even 5 years ago if you took a job here with deteriorating conditions, there were no other options available.

Speaking of, if you go over to Dave's you can find hangook/weigook74 here making this same argument 10 years ago.. (That board is so dead that clicking on any of the threads brings up posts from that era).
Years of ranting about 2.1m wages and moving to other countries. I agree that wages are low, but don't you ever get tired of it?


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2868

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2021, 02:36:46 pm »
Did anyone actually read all of this???

:cheesy:

There could be a need to this type of specific teaching and training for adults.  But if you are teaching kids, you have to be entertaining and exciting to keep kids attention.  It doesn't necessarily mean dancing monkey.  But being a fun dude with some fun activities is par the course.  If you want more disciplined students who will study and practice in your classes group exercises, adult teaching is where it is at.  Give them vocabulary words to memorize for homework then do activities to practice those learned new works and expressions.  They will be motivated to work.  Kids require something different and you had better have a fun silly personality to enjoy or tolerate that angle.  So teaching younger kids will always require a type of inner immunity or strength.  Some folks just can't stand it and all your TESOL methods won't work on them.  Whereas for motivated adults who want to be there, you had better be on your game and make sure you have working methods. 

Basic question for teaching kids never asked is "do you like kids?"  If not, flake off or do it a year and then move on.  I do fortunately.  I wouldn't do a job for years that I hated.  I like that part of the job.  I don't like increasing rules, enforcement of bad rules that were put on a few years ago and not enforced until recently, and stagnant pay (even though I make more than average).  Keep pushing in those areas.  I will leave in another year or two.  If you are a young person getting squeezed, there are options available now that weren't before.


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 737

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2021, 05:14:15 pm »
If you look at this post, they really don’t make that much more considering the amount of hours they have to work and also housing is not included.
Evens taking the 4.0 mill salary and dividing it by 4(weekly) then by 5(daily) then by 12(hourly) it works out to be just a little over 16,000 won an hour.

Also, it’s a factory job with probably difficult standing on you feet all day conditions, with mind numbingly boring plastic garbage sorting routine with almost no breaks.

Though I agree that this is probably a huge improvement with regards to pay and conditions from years ago, and this would be a dream job for most if not all 3rd world country migrant workers from Southeast Asia looking to escape poverty and support their families back home....

However, I don’t think that Western teachers who are university educated should be aiming for this lower level quality work.

When it comes to Hagwons, they need to up their pay for their teachers from 2.1 to 3.1 with housing and benefits on top of that. It should be 4.0 mill plus benefits for POLY School teachers as they teach 9 to 10 classes per day !!!
(I’ve been on a few Reddit forums and read through 2 pinned message on there where years later former Korean students who moved overseas with their families for high school etc look back and realized the value of their education from Nets, and one even apologized for the difficulties foreign teachers have to endure from bosses with regards to pay and benefits and he or she also wrote ‘please understand their disability to not understand ’.... Then I suddenly got it.... these Korean hagwan owners really don’t understand the value of their staff ... if only there was a way to form a global union with all of the 7 countries and get everyone to keep rejecting 2.1 mill jobs, then the hagwon owners would realize the value of teachers more... but sadly youngsters will keep falling into the 2.1 mill a month trap :()
 The factory workers here have been complaining and protesting their rights for years, and taking their concerns to the media, so things are changing for them.

On another note, within the public schools they are now really treating their native teachers as ‘assistants’ and only paying them for the 4~5 hours worked plus the desk warming. (Also in general, government workers in Korea receive less as a trade off for more job stability). Even though the Native Teachers don’t get as much job security, they still profited in COVID times when their pay was not reduced for the 2 months they ‘worked’ from home at the beginning of 2020, while Hagwons were cutting pay by half or even 70%. It would be nice if  the Government removed the barrier to pay rises after 1+ level teachers who are on an F series visas and want to continue teaching and contributing to Korea in the long term, by allowing them to take workshops or some test that will allow their pay to raise every year similar to Korean teachers.

Seems like you still don't get it.  I've been trying to tell people here complaining about wages why it is the way it is.  Hagwons employ two types of teachers, native, and Korean English teachers.  You can't help but compare them.  The point is, Korean teachers get paid, as a normal base, 300k lower than native teachers, not including apartments.  Factor in the extra work you have to do to employ them (and maintain them) and it leaves hagwon owners shaking their heads.  Absolutely, native teachers bring a lot to the job, but hagwon owners are more likely to focus on the inconvenience, higher pay, and extra work of hiring them and that puts native teachers behind the eight ball to begin with.  I guarantee you that if Korean teachers got a significant pay raise that be the first step before native teachers were ever considered for raises.


  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 712

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Canada
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2021, 08:02:21 am »
Here's another job I found on Craigslist:

○ Gyeonggi Hwaseong Electric Wire Manufacturing 2 Koreans, Indonesia ○
1.Workplace
 -.35, Sujeong-ro 299beon-gil, Jangan-myeon, Hwaseong-si, Gyeonggi-do
2. Working days and hours
 -.2nd shift 26th, 8:00~20:00
3. No dormitory or commuter bus
4. Monthly salary 3,50 million won (3.3% deducted)
5. Korean, Indonesian
6. Regular visa, H2, F4/5/6
7. Parking, monthly, and severance pay
■ Phone: 010 2944 1119 ■




  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6777

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2021, 08:04:59 am »

2. Working days and hours
 -.2nd shift 26th, 8:00~20:00

Not seeing the days here. Is that...... M-F? Saturday, too? EVERY DAY?
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2028

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2021, 08:12:27 am »
Not seeing the days here. Is that...... M-F? Saturday, too? EVERY DAY?
Very likely 6 days a week, but no 100%. The Saturday shift is often shorter, like half. Sundays are almost always a off day.

A lot of these workers will go back to their home countries financially secure.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5837

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2021, 08:18:05 am »
I saw an ad for M-F 8am to 6pm with a one hour break for 3.5.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2868

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2021, 08:27:58 am »
Speaking of, if you go over to Dave's you can find hangook/weigook74 here making this same argument 10 years ago.. (That board is so dead that clicking on any of the threads brings up posts from that era).
Years of ranting about 2.1m wages and moving to other countries. I agree that wages are low, but don't you ever get tired of it?

 I joined Daves a couple of years ago to search for jobs.  But whatever conspiracy theories float your boat.  Ten years ago the salary was still decent.  I am not sure why asking for better pay and work conditions triggers you all so much.  Honestly, is it really troubling that I have kicked you out of your comfort zone of complacency?  Is that what offends you so much?  Really, why not be mad at the Koreans instead of me?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 10:22:04 am by Kyndo »