Entry level factory job 3.5-4.0M/month

You mention the free market taking care of salaries after you've imposed some restrictions, so NOT free market.  Younger teachers are not going to start turning down these positions because it's not in your best interests for them to take them.  People have different priorities and as long as these younger people have crunched the numbers and decided it's worthwhile the salaries will remain low.  It's naive to think otherwise in the current conditions.  And the current conditions include a low barrier to entry.  It's that simple.  There is no incentive for a hakwan owner to pay more for a more experienced teacher because moms will happily send their kids to a school with a smiling energetic 24-year-old who is here for an adventure.  That's the free market at work.  I wish people would turn down these low paying jobs in such significant numbers that it would force schools to up the pay, but so far that isn't happening.  Unless the attitudes of Korean parents change, or the government makes it more difficult for just anybody with a uni degree to come teach, all the griping in the world won't change a thing.  It needs to be harder to come and teach here, but I'm guessing the hakwan association is a powerful lobbyist. 

By the way, why does waygook always redline naive?  Is there an American spelling I don't know about?

Yes..... and that is the unfortunate part .... Korea has been playing both the NET's and the Korean parents. On the one hand, we have recruiters who are outward lying to the young graduate about the "Hot salary." They don't speak Korean, and the pay can seem amazing to a Fresh out of college 21 year, who has probably been paying rent to his or her parents and now can have an opportunity to live "rent-free,". For most, it is such a temporary gap year type of job that they don't care about the pay scale, and they are so isolated from the rest of society that they don't know about the pay going up for bus drivers and 3rd world country workers.... On the other hand, the Korean parents don't speak any English, and are as clueless about English Education as the NET is about Korean culture and language, and they end up paying some Ajjoshii ( who probably got laid off early and flipped a coin to decide how to invest his severance money ... chicken shop or ... English Hagwon) hundreds of dollars for their children's education. The ajjoshi pockets millions and millions of won while paying the same low salary year after year to his NETS for 13 years.......

I guess instead of waiting for salaries to rise... I can take advantage of the free market in a different way... team up with an old laid off ajjoshi with a big thick severance paycheque to open a Hagwon.... he can be the Korean business owner and I'll be the international face of reliable English education, set a good curriculum, charge Korean parents even more money, while luring in my our own naive 21-year-old and underpaying them for the next 13 years at 2.1 mill!!!! When the salary becomes way to low.... we will start inviting these 21-year-olds as "interns" to gain experience for their teaching jobs back home and continue to underpay them.....  I guess that's how the clever can rule in capitalism and the free market... while the young and naive are exploited under slave wages!

Define "skill"

I would define skill as ("the ability to do something well or expertise).... But there are higher-level skills like those of  a teacher (who are educated and hold expertise in developing linguistic abilities critical thinking abilities, and creativity, etc in students to set them up for future success) , which can be anything from doing well in future language classes, using the skill of English language to pursue their dream careers in English speaking nations later on in their lives such as doctors, dentists, engineers... etc) . There are many Koreans who are trying to or have immigrated to Canada, the US, or the UK for work and English is an important skill for them to master to achieve their goals...

While the laborers might be able to sort the plastic garbage well.... with high accuracy or speed... their skills are of lower value in society... Not saying they are not important of good at what they do.. just their skills are of lower value placing them in the unskilled category... just think of the jobs back home.....you have cashiers ( who require expertise and speed) and school janitors and lunch ladies too.... they are good at what they do and are important but, they are unskilled workers, where the teachers are highly skilled. Going up the ladder further we have engineers and doctors (highly skilled specialists). ect

Honestly, the apologists who are so whipped here that they will defend every bad practice are a real head scratcher.

As for the free market, go to China and make a lot more money than here.  But either way, using that as an excuse to justify low wages and be happy about it is pathetic.

You just live in your own world just denying reality, don't you?   That is the real head scratcher.  The free market explains the low wages in Korea, it doesn't excuse it one way or the other.  It's a simple and rational explanation that for some reason triggers you.  As an adult I must accept and be aware of the different dynamics involved in the current ESL market in Korea.  And young people coming here to take 2.1 million/month jobs is a reality.  Whether I like it or not is completely irrelevant porky. 

You just live in your own world just denying reality, don't you?   That is the real head scratcher.  The free market explains the low wages in Korea, it doesn't excuse it one way or the other.  It's a simple and rational explanation that for some reason triggers you.  As an adult I must accept and be aware of the different dynamics involved in the current ESL market in Korea.  And young people coming here to take 2.1 million/month jobs is a reality.  Whether I like it or not is completely irrelevant porky. 

Another low wage defender.  Probably a secret hakwon owner or recruiter.  That's what I think these guys who keep defending it must be in spite of what they actually claim to be.  Either way, it is BS and I won't defend it.  A hakwon owner can afford to pay better.  Now if you are young and have debts to repay, just go to China.  You'll make way more money than here. 

I don't care what you like fuckface.  You're still a loser cuck piece of shit human being.

I was gonna share this pic here for a laugh, and I entered and................ ........ Uhhhhh, alright.

Another low wage defender.  Probably a secret hakwon owner or recruiter.  That's what I think these guys who keep defending it must be in spite of what they actually claim to be.  Either way, it is BS and I won't defend it.  A hakwon owner can afford to pay better.  Now if you are young and have debts to repay, just go to China.  You'll make way more money than here. 

I don't think you understand the difference between explain and defend.  What hakwan owner would pay more just because they can afford to if their business model isn't disrupted by paying someone less?  You do understand they are in business at least, right?

And, what do you mean "secret" hakwan owner?  I am on the record here telling you you found me out, and I am not a teacher, but rather the proud owner of Top Hat Elite Genius Best Driver English School here in Inhu-dong, Jeonju-si.  Stop trying to agitate my work force.  None of these stooges have the foggiest that the 2.1 I pay them isn't worth as much as it was ten years ago.  You're threatening my sweet set up. 

I was gonna share this pic here for a laugh, and I entered and................ ........ Uhhhhh, alright.

Not sure what you're trying to say.  I am the only one speaking up about it while others private complain to me and never complain to the education office or their employers.  Again, if Korea doesn't smarten up in a year or two more and more people will vote with their feet and be gone to China or where ever.

I don't care if you disagree with me, but don't make childish personal attacks.  I mean once corona is over and I go up to Seoul, he and I can meet and settle this in person.  Let's see how the keyboard tough guy stands up then.

Who are you talking to?

You *****.  You want to keep running your mouth?

A sure sign that you've clearly won an argument is when the other side resorts to threats of violence. 

A sure sign that you've clearly won an argument is when the other side resorts to threats of violence. 

A sure sign when you start calling me childish names when you can't argue on the merits and have to resort to pettiness.  If you're going to start name calling and making personal insults, you ought to either be ready to fight or shut up.  Quit being so ignorant.

A sure sign when you start calling me childish names when you can't argue on the merits and have to resort to pettiness.  If you're going to start name calling and making personal insults, you ought to either be ready to fight or shut up.  Quit being so ignorant.

Fight or shut up?  Perhaps grow up is another option you should consider.  And calling you porky was a joke based on people calling you obese in another thread.  Add lighten up to the list of things you should try.  And could you please explain why it is acceptable for you to call people names on here, but unacceptable for others to do it to you?  That's hypocritical.  You can insult me and call me any name you want.  I don't give a sh*t. 

Fight or shut up?  Perhaps grow up is another option you should consider.  And calling you porky was a joke based on people calling you obese in another thread.  Add lighten up to the list of things you should try.  And could you please explain why it is acceptable for you to call people names on here, but unacceptable for others to do it to you?  That's hypocritical.  You can insult me and call me any name you want.  I don't give a sh*t. 

I never called anyone personal names on here and I did say some folks in Korea were larger which is true.  Either way, you want to start lobbing personal insults at people, then don't cry when you get results you don't like. 

I would define skill as ("the ability to do something well or expertise).... But there are higher-level skills like those of  a teacher (who are educated and hold expertise in developing linguistic abilities critical thinking abilities, and creativity, etc in students to set them up for future success) , which can be anything from doing well in future language classes, using the skill of English language to pursue their dream careers in English speaking nations later on in their lives such as doctors, dentists, engineers... etc) . There are many Koreans who are trying to or have immigrated to Canada, the US, or the UK for work and English is an important skill for them to master to achieve their goals

But most ESL teachers in Korea aren't actual qualified teachers nor skilled in the sense of the profession's requirements, which is why the pay is now hovering around national minimum wage level. Moreover, Korea literally has an overabundance of university educated graduates (something like 70%+ of the population go on to study at undergrad level), so "higher level skills" in Korea would be more like bog standard level skills.

While the laborers might be able to sort the plastic garbage well.... with high accuracy or speed... their skills are of lower value in society... Not saying they are not important of good at what they do.. just their skills are of lower value placing them in the unskilled category... just think of the jobs back home.....you have cashiers ( who require expertise and speed) and school janitors and lunch ladies too.... they are good at what they do and are important but, they are unskilled workers, where the teachers are highly skilled. Going up the ladder further we have engineers and doctors (highly skilled specialists). ect

The designation of skilled and unskilled is the byproduct of classist policies designed to deliberately underpay workers. All labour is skilled. I would argue a lot of the labour we class as "unskilled" are actually some of the most important in society. Look at the list of "essential workers" from the past year around the world and how vital they have been to keeping entire countries running.

Yes, teachers, doctors and engineers are highly skilled...but so are janitors, farmhands and manual labourers. There's a reason 3D jobs in Korea are now paying well relative to E2 jobs...because the skills and workers needed for those jobs have been deemed as more important to society than teaching ABCs to Minsu and his dad.

Heck, bus drivers are now on 3mil+ and street cleaners 3.7 - 4mil per month.

What a day! First the Oscars, and now a Waygook Battle. I may have lost my betting pool for Best Picture (I wanted Minari or Sound of Metal to win) but I'm putting all my money on OnNut81.

Years ago, in Chungju, there was a young Korean woman getting pestered by 3 ajeossis across the street from our picnic table outside the 7-11.

They kept surrounding her and asking where she was going. I saw OnNut's ears perk up, like a fox in a still, autumn evening; mice feet on the dried leaves.

He wasn't having it.

  OnNut: Hey, what are you doing?

  Shut up, foreigner, it's none of your business!

  What the **** did you just fuc*ing say about me, you little Ajeossi? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Nipissing University, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Laurentian Uni, and I have over 300 confirmed TP throws. I am trained in black bear warfare and I’m the top curler in the entire Canadian armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the f*ck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my ssibal words.

The ajeossis turned away and one of them pinched the jean shorted bottom of this young maiden. That was the final straw. OnNut flipped over the table with the force of a thousand Kia Sportes. Luckily, we had already drank my homemade mak and he'd merely wasted half a bag of shrimp chips and 200ml of green bottle swill. He zigzagged across the street, arms open, mouth agape, eyes seared with the heat of a thousand CheongYang peppers. The ajeossis had barely time to raise their hands in defense before............. ..

Well, I can't explain. There was a flash of light, and buy the time my pupils had returned to normal, the ajeossis were simply............. . gone.

No fight, no fleeing in terror. Just..... silence.

  OnNut...... whe-................ where are they????

  Don't worry, young lady. You won't be having problems from them again. Ever. Again. Forever.

OnNut came back to be seated, not with a victorious look, as on would expect, but, rather, one might see of a Hockey Team Owner after their team's  sixth goal in a 6-0 game.

  Whe-.....Where are they? What was that light???

  Kevin, go get another bottle *slips me 2000W*

  Yes, Sir!

The young woman wandered off, and I went inside to fetch more victory mak. OnNut and I never spoke of the incident again. 

I never called anyone personal names on here and I did say some folks in Korea were larger which is true.  Either way, you want to start lobbing personal insults at people, then don't cry when you get results you don't like. 

Have no problem with the results as it's a reflection on you, not me.  I wouldn't get all worked up and start challenging someone to a fight for anything that is said on here. 

You don't think calling people "idiots" isn't a personal insult?  How do you figure?  You attack people all day long on this site.  Don't be a crybaby when it boomerangs back. 

What a day! First the Oscars, and now a Waygook Battle. I may have lost my betting pool for Best Picture (I wanted Minari or Sound of Metal to win) but I'm putting all my money on OnNut81.

Years ago, in Chungju, there was a young Korean woman getting pestered by 3 ajeossis across the street from our picnic table outside the 7-11.

They kept surrounding her and asking where she was going. I saw OnNut's ears perk up, like a fox in a still, autumn evening; mice feet on the dried leaves.

He wasn't having it.

  OnNut: Hey, what are you doing?

  Shut up, foreigner, it's none of your business!

  What the **** did you just fuc*ing say about me, you little Ajeossi? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Nipissing University, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Laurentian Uni, and I have over 300 confirmed TP throws. I am trained in black bear warfare and I’m the top curler in the entire Canadian armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the f*ck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my ssibal words.

The ajeossis turned away and one of them pinched the jean shorted bottom of this young maiden. That was the final straw. OnNut flipped over the table with the force of a thousand Kia Sportes. Luckily, we had already drank my homemade mak and he'd merely wasted half a bag of shrimp chips and 200ml of green bottle swill. He zigzagged across the street, arms open, mouth agape, eyes seared with the heat of a thousand CheongYang peppers. The ajeossis had barely time to raise their hands in defense before............. ..

Well, I can't explain. There was a flash of light, and buy the time my pupils had returned to normal, the ajeossis were simply............. . gone.

No fight, no fleeing in terror. Just..... silence.

  OnNut...... whe-................ where are they????

  Don't worry, young lady. You won't be having problems from them again. Ever. Again. Forever.

OnNut came back to be seated, not with a victorious look, as on would expect, but, rather, one might see of a Hockey Team Owner after their team's  sixth goal in a 6-0 game.

  Whe-.....Where are they? What was that light???

  Kevin, go get another bottle *slips me 2000W*

  Yes, Sir!

The young woman wandered off, and I went inside to fetch more victory mak. OnNut and I never spoke of the incident again. 

Well, one of us kept to that agreement on keeping mum.  I'm probably wanted in those parts. 

The designation of skilled and unskilled is the byproduct of classist policies designed to deliberately underpay workers. All labour is skilled. I would argue a lot of the labour we class as "unskilled" are actually some of the most important in society. Look at the list of "essential workers" from the past year around the world and how vital they have been to keeping entire countries running.

tell'm waygo0k

@hangoog & 1nut
if you're gonna go up to seoul to duel or w.e can you guys at least film it? now THAT would be a top 10 anime battle of waygook.org

Have no problem with the results as it's a reflection on you, not me.  I wouldn't get all worked up and start challenging someone to a fight for anything that is said on here. 

You don't think calling people "idiots" isn't a personal insult?  How do you figure?  You attack people all day long on this site.  Don't be a crybaby when it boomerangs back. 

Again, not a personal attack but speaking to a mindset in general.  Big difference.  If you can't understand the difference, I can't help you.  Criticing a group with a certain defeated mindset versus an individual.  Either way, if you can't have an arguement without personal attacks then step back.  Cause one day you will mouth off the wrong person on a personal basis, in person, and there'll be nothing to save you then. 

It seems I have to keep repeating myself.  Ten years ago even 5 years ago if you took a job here with deteriorating conditions, there were no other options available.  So, I couldn't criticize anyone.  Now, there are options available even if you don't like that.  So, folks don't have to put up with it.  Other countries have risen up to challenge Korea and if Korea doesn't get with the program then they will start losing teachers once Corona is done.  These are the same points I recently made to the POE inspite of their stubborness and flippant attitude on the subject.  I put my money where my mouth is.  If it offends them and they non renew me.  Boo hoo.  Off to China to make more money now rather than later.  There are some things I need to do here which is why I stay and I made a higher wage which insulated me until very recently.  Either way, coming for low wages because you saw Super Junior or BTS on YouTube is dumb.  Other places pay more and let you pay off your student loans.  If I call a group of folks or an idea dumb versus personally calling one user dumb, there is a difference.  If I had no attachments or loose ends here to tie up, I'd already be gone.  Young folks with thousands of dollars in loans to repay and looking to save for the future are wasting their time here.  I don't care how trigered it makes you or how much it offends you that I have kicked you out of some strange denial comfort zone.  Truth is truth. 

tell'm waygo0k

@hangoog & 1nut
if you're gonna go up to seoul to duel or w.e can you guys at least film it? now THAT would be a top 10 anime battle of waygook.org

Nah, fiming it means Korean blood money and witnesses.  Can't do anything if all you folks are watching.  Ha ha.  Not going to prison.

Nah, fiming it means Korean blood money and witnesses.  Can't do anything if all you folks are watching.  Ha ha.  Not going to prison.

Why'd you edit that from what you originally wrote, which was you're "going to have to stand down?"