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  • Waygook Lord

    • 6781

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2021, 10:11:19 am »
The first vaccine was by Pfizer. They didnít accept any taxpayer (Operation Warp Speed) money.


  • D.L.Orean
  • Expert Waygook

    • 509

    • February 25, 2020, 09:34:41 am
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2021, 10:17:21 am »
The first vaccine was by Pfizer. They didnít accept any taxpayer (Operation Warp Speed) money.

Their partner in developing the vaccine received money from the German government.


Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2021, 10:45:37 am »
Well, no. 

I and most people who understand US politics still blame Reagan for a lot of what happens in American politics.  The biggest example is supply side, trickle down Milton Friedman economics which has been totally disproven over the last forty effing years, yet somehow over half the body politic and quite a lot of regular folks still think that the thing to do is cut taxes for rich people.  It's proven nonsense, Reagan has been out of office for nearly 35 years, but it's the CW. 
Well, sure Reagan is to blame for a bunch of shit, but so is Carter and Clinton. It seems your "logic" is anything bad is because of Republicans, everything good is because of Democrats.

As far as Supply Side, when used in targeted doses it can help, the problem was it got turned into a religion and people assumed it was always the solution in every situation.

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If you realize that Trump is just the pinnacle--to date--of social animus against the "other" (meaning Trump didn't start it, but he was very good at stoking it) it's pretty obvious it will be a long time before disenfranchised people stop "punching down".  That includes Hispanics who "other" blacks, blacks and Hispanics who "other" Asians, and of course whites who "other" poorer whites.  And Hispanics, Asians and blacks.
It's all because of othering and Trump? No possibility its due to what, 60 years of Democrat policies that have kept large swaths of the black population mired in subsistence? Recent soft on crime policies? Wokeness and "black people can't be racist" stuff? No possibility at all anything leftyish has contributed?

I don't think it is that, but I also don't think it's Trump and all that. By and large we've always had violent assholes in America who do random shit. Now we have cameras everywhere to pick up on it.

Quote
That's not cognitive dissonance, failing to see it as a continuation of an earlier trend is.
It is when you talk about it like Trump is still the President and just reflexively blame anything bad on Trump or the GOP.

At this point it seems a lot of people have just shut down their brains and are now basically "homer" sports fans who have lost all impartiality. You've already reached a conclusion before you even know the problem: somehow it's Trump and the GOP's fault. You just need to know what the problem is so you can find out how to blame them for it.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2021, 10:46:03 am »
The first vaccine was by Pfizer. They didnít accept any taxpayer (Operation Warp Speed) money.
They (their partner, BioNTech) received public funding from Germany.

Edit: Darn it D.L.Orean. Using your time travelling abilities to beat me to the punch is cheating!   >:(
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 10:51:28 am by Kyndo »


Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2021, 10:54:03 am »
Good point.  Government, said Reagan, isn't the solution, government is the problem.

Why on earth do we elect people who don't believe in the fundamental mission of the job? 
By that "logic" government has never been the problem and never needed reform. Clearly in some cases government has been a problem. Sometimes the government of various countries has even been THE problem.

Anyways, I think Reagan was making a light generalization and mostly referring to bloat and bureaucracy. He wasn't saying government 100% shouldn't exist.

But I understand the point you're making because there are anti-government zealots out there who take that literally.


Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2021, 10:56:14 am »
They (their partner, BioNTech) received public funding from Germany.

Edit: Darn it D.L.Orean. Using your
Their partner in developing the vaccine received money from the German government.
Wait, the Germans, so that means they aren't Communists, they're Nazis! Or dare I say.....Commie-Nazis!

« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 11:02:50 am by Mr.DeMartino »


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2021, 11:04:08 am »
They (their partner, BioNTech) received public funding from Germany.

Edit: Darn it D.L.Orean. Using your
Their partner in developing the vaccine received money from the German government.
Wait, the Germans, so that means they aren't Communists, they're Nazis! Or dare I say.....Commie-Nazis!

Speaking of Comment Nazis, what in the samhain is going on with my comment over there? What did you do to it???  You butcher!!  :shocked: :cry:


Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2021, 01:06:52 pm »
Wait, the Germans, so that means they aren't Communists, they're Nazis! Or dare I say.....Commie-Nazis!

Speaking of Comment Nazis, what in the samhain is going on with my comment over there? What did you do to it???  You butcher!!  :shocked: :cry:
Oops...I don't know what happened there.

I will speak to the Bureau about it.

(Seriously though, I think I botched the quote function when I posted that. I meant to quote D.L.)


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • I am a geek!!

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2021, 01:48:09 pm »
... you did it again!
 :cry: :cry:


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2866

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2021, 02:25:01 pm »
By that "logic" government has never been the problem and never needed reform. Clearly in some cases government has been a problem. Sometimes the government of various countries has even been THE problem.

I said "Why on earth do we elect people who don't believe in the fundamental mission of the job?"  Where is the "logic" in that suggesting government has never been a problem?  People who "believe" in cars don't sit in broken-down ones pretending they're still going somewhere.  They try to fix the problem. 

US politics today are about one party that wants to use government to fix things, and another party that wants to stop government from doing anything.

That is a highly polemical statement, but it is fundamentally correct.
Quote

Anyways, I think Reagan was making a light generalization and mostly referring to bloat and bureaucracy. He wasn't saying government 100% shouldn't exist.

But I understand the point you're making because there are anti-government zealots out there who take that literally.

Indeed Reagan didn't, he was just pontificating while his administration bloated government so much it created more debt than had existed from all previous administrations put together.  Nowadays, we say that about just about every administration, but Reagan started it. 

Oh, remember, Clinton turned over a government running a surplus to the Bushies, who again more than doubled the national debt.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 02:26:55 pm by Mr C »


Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2021, 02:54:57 pm »
Oh, remember, Clinton and the Republican congress who had the powers of taxation, appropriation, budget. etc. turned over a government running a surplus to the Bushies, who again more than doubled the national debt.
FIFY.

Look, We can give credit to Clinton, Congress, and also factors beyond government (namely the internet and telecom) all around. I think they all deserve credit for that.

Quote
"Why on earth do we elect people who don't believe in the fundamental mission of the job?"
Reagan didn't fundamentally believe that government was a necessary part of civil society? Are you taking him uber-literally? Are you saying that he was essentially an anarchist?

Again, if you're going to go after people for not understanding generalizations...

But again, I do understand the larger point you are making- That while Reagan did not literally think government was the problem in every way, his attitude towards government produced unfortunate consequences which perhaps a more nuanced view would have prevented.

Quote
US politics today are about one party that wants to use government to fix things
Yes. Although in plenty of cases the Democratic Party does NOT want government to do things or simply wants to use government in a supplementary fashion. Of course the caution about that is that government isn't always the best tool to fix things, nor are its proposed fixes always the best solutions.

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and another party that wants to stop government from doing anything
No, it's another party that wants to stop government from doing anything unnecessary or that may produce bad unintended consequences.

Look, I'm no fan of Reagan in many aspects, but I think there's plenty of blame (and credit) to go around with both parties.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2866

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2021, 06:22:17 pm »
FIFY.

Look, We can give credit to Clinton, Congress, and also factors beyond government (namely the internet and telecom) all around. I think they all deserve credit for that.

Clinton had already trimmed the deficit by about 1/3 by the time Newt and his troupe of minstrels came along in the 1994 midterms.  Paul Volcker, Former Federal Reserve Board Chairman: "The deficit has come down, and I give the Clinton Administration and President Clinton himself a lot of credit for that. [He] did something about it, fast. And I think we are seeing some benefits." [Audacity, Fall 1994].

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Reagan didn't fundamentally believe that government was a necessary part of civil society? Are you taking him uber-literally? Are you saying that he was essentially an anarchist?

Again, if you're going to go after people for not understanding generalizations...
I think I was clear that Reagan was pontificating.  Lots of Republicans did take him literally at least as far as social programs, infrastructure, everything except military spending.

Quote
But again, I do understand the larger point you are making- That while Reagan did not literally think government was the problem in every way, his attitude towards government produced unfortunate consequences which perhaps a more nuanced view would have prevented.
Yes. Although in plenty of cases the Democratic Party does NOT want government to do things or simply wants to use government in a supplementary fashion. Of course the caution about that is that government isn't always the best tool to fix things, nor are its proposed fixes always the best solutions.
No, it's another party that wants to stop government from doing anything unnecessary or that may produce bad unintended consequences.

Look, I'm no fan of Reagan in many aspects, but I think there's plenty of blame (and credit) to go around with both parties.

And I don't, not in the modern era.  To the extent Republicans cut taxes and fail to decrease spending in the most significant areas of say Social Security, Medicare, etc, and military, they simply pass on debt to future generations.  And those tax cuts don't go back into the economy in any real way.  After the Trump tax cuts, Mnuchin was in a meeting with a bunch of Fortune 500 CEOs and he asked them who was going to plow that money back into R&D, expansion, and similar.  No one raised their hands.  No, they were going to do stock buybacks.

But the instant Dems come to power, it's all about deficits for them--even though, say w Clinton and Obama (and now Biden), Dems had to spend loads of money to fix the mess GOP policies got us into.

Despite the great control of the messaging from Republicans, Dem tax hikes strike corporations and the wealthy, and tax cuts go to regular earners who put that money back into the economy by buying stuff.  This is barely a generalization.

There once was a time when Republicans used government well--Nixon started the EPA, strengthened lots of regulatory bodies but he took a big hit from Goldwater Republicans for it.  Since then, they haven't seen a regulation they liked, even ones that clean up water and air.    Unless they control women's bodies and reproductive care, and now trans kids rights.  It's disgraceful and you know it.. 

BTW, we never finished bad-mouthing Reagan earlier in the thread.  Aside from disgraceful moral decisions like inaction on AIDS and shutting down the mental institutions, kowtowing to the "Moral Majority", one of his worst body-blows to the American economy was handling of the air traffic controllers strike.  Unions were a non-governmental way to get some control of corporations, and now the idea of a decent day's wage for a decent day's work has all but vanished. 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 12:15:00 am by Mr C »


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2717

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm


  • DocH
  • Veteran

    • 123

    • March 01, 2021, 11:25:39 am
    • pub
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2021, 10:39:20 pm »
The brain-dead seem to casually ignore Phillip Adams (and the identity excuses that even FNC are peddling) and what happened to Mohammad Anwar (killed by two blackwomen but nobody wants to point that out). They've also seemed to ignore the recent capital attack was by a black man...the media ignored that also.  In addition, an ethnic group that compromises roughly 15% of the US population commits an overwhelming majority of violent crime, especially on their own.

...not to mention the media pretty much refusing to show the body cam footage, which as the recording of the moments leading up to the famed incident.

 
So...yeah, violence.  There are folks that have grown quite sick of this. 



« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 03:23:53 am by DocH »


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2866

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2021, 12:04:39 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq_E3HquRJY

Thank you for that!

Although I covered the first 15 minutes of it in 200 words above.  But a lot less humorously. 


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4981

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2021, 01:09:46 am »
I mean he's the big man in charge, so I don't see why I shouldn't get to place the blame on him. Even if he's doing "quite the opposite" he clearly isn't doing enough  >:(
If you "don't see why," I suggest you look again.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4981

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2021, 01:15:37 am »
The private sector invented the vaccine, no?

Four million vaccinations a day is whatís happening in the US. Fifteen million doses thrown out sets the timeline under which everyone who wants it can get it back four days. Not a huge amount of time. Factories in America are pumping out large amounts of vaccines. When will NETs in Korea be eligible? Maybe six months from now?
Our man from the US chamber of commerce chimes in, but unfortunately forgets about all the government grants that funded the underlying research that made the vaccines possible.

It's the focus on applied research, i.e., research directly benefitting the private sector, that is holding Korea back.



  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4981

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2021, 01:23:58 am »
Well, sure Reagan is to blame for a bunch of shit, but so is Carter and Clinton. It seems your "logic" is anything bad is because of Republicans, everything good is because of Democrats.

As far as Supply Side, when used in targeted doses it can help, the problem was it got turned into a religion and people assumed it was always the solution in every situation.
It's all because of othering and Trump? No possibility its due to what, 60 years of Democrat policies that have kept large swaths of the black population mired in subsistence? Recent soft on crime policies? Wokeness and "black people can't be racist" stuff? No possibility at all anything leftyish has contributed?

I don't think it is that, but I also don't think it's Trump and all that. By and large we've always had violent assholes in America who do random shit. Now we have cameras everywhere to pick up on it.
It is when you talk about it like Trump is still the President and just reflexively blame anything bad on Trump or the GOP.

At this point it seems a lot of people have just shut down their brains and are now basically "homer" sports fans who have lost all impartiality. You've already reached a conclusion before you even know the problem: somehow it's Trump and the GOP's fault. You just need to know what the problem is so you can find out how to blame them for it.
If by 'you' you mean me, you're wrong.

Carter was anything but anti-government. Clinton, on the other hand, has a lot to answer for--okaying the transfer of technology to China, buying into conservative arguments regarding Reagan's welfare queens, repealing the Glass-Steagall law. This is a guy who signed off on the execution of a mentally retarded individual to show he was tough on crime. But don't forget he had to move to the right because conservative propaganda had moved the country in that direction.

Good to see you remain laser-focused on supporting trump.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4981

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2021, 01:26:30 am »
By that "logic" government has never been the problem and never needed reform. Clearly in some cases government has been a problem. Sometimes the government of various countries has even been THE problem.

Anyways, I think Reagan was making a light generalization and mostly referring to bloat and bureaucracy. He wasn't saying government 100% shouldn't exist.

But I understand the point you're making because there are anti-government zealots out there who take that literally.
This is reminiscent of your posts regarding trump's tweets and how they weren't meant to be taken literally/seriously/the excuse du  jour. See Jan. 6 for how that excuse played.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4981

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Violence has passed the potential stage
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2021, 02:24:38 am »
Mental illness or poor excuse making:
"A Caucasian man in Fullerton, CA has been charged with a hate crime after throwing rocks at an Asian woman and her 6-year-old son last month.

The incident, which resulted in damages to the woman's car, occurred while she was driving her son along a quiet stretch on March 31, according to the Washington Post.

Roger Janke, 28, is accused of throwing rocks at the woman's vehicle. The 38-year-old victim parked and called 911, according to the Associated Press.

Upon his arrest, Janke claimed that "Koreans in the area were trying to control him," according to the Orange County District Attorneyís Office. He is currently held at Theo Lacy Facility on a $51,500 bail."