We have to give up vacation days now to take a school holiday?

He does talk the talk, and I always like a good story from someone standing up and saying "enough".  I'm just wondering why such a prolific poster as Hangook77 that is so adamant about how he won't put up with double standards isn't giving us the goods on how he's dealing with these injustices at his school.  I'd hate to think that he was just all talk.  I want to hear how it turned out when he refused to use a vacation day and still took the day off. 

Do you just bitch about it on here or do you actually tell your teachers or school what BS it is?  I know quite a few teachers complain to me but never say boo to their schools or the education office.  At the very least vocally voice your displeasure.  I understand 10 years ago after the Great Recession when the market got flooded and the power flipped to the education offices and the hakwons away from the teachers.  A lot of us had to quiet down a bit for a while.  They started putting nonsense into the contracts about 10 years ago just because they could.  But none of my schools paid attention or enforced these things.  Recently many are trying to do just that and adding new rules. 

But what is different today from 10 years ago is the rise of China and Vietnam (no matter how triggered you get by me saying that). 

ze=" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china?koreasearch=&koreapageno=&koreapagesize=&chinasearch=&chinapageno=1&chinapagesize=60&internationalsearch=&internationalpageno=&internationalpagesi ze=

An experienced teacher searching for the right jobs can get at least 25000 RMB with housing (maybe even more).  Deductions will bring you to low 20's.    If you send home 15000 RMB then, 15,000 RMB = 2,559,991.50 KRW.  If you send home 20,000 RMB by hearing 28,000 or 30,000 RMB and what you have left after deductions, then  20,000 RMB = 3,413,984.00 KRW.  These are theoretically the amounts you can send home in Korean won equivalent each month.  (Of course you may be less picky about locations to get these.  I've been doing a lot of research on these topics lately and educating myself.)   Banks are legally allowed to transfer money home for you but does require some monthly paperwork to bring.  It is more of a hassle than Korea but it is possible to send home on a legal Z Visa up to your monthly salary.  Some bank staff may try to resist because there were currency controls years ago and they never educated themselves.  You will have to be assertive and make them call their head office and other banks and not take NO for an answer.  But Chinese law is that a foreigner on a legal Z visa can send their salary home.  But they have to bring proof of employment, a letter from the tax office and some other paperwork each month.  It is a pain, but doable.  Would you rather send home or save 500 or 600 thousand won or would you rather send home or save the equivalent of 2.5 to 4 million won per month depending on how hard you are willing to work or which job you are willing to take?  Korea is very easy to send money home, but you know what the pay off is? 

I thought my salary was decent here until recently being over 3 mil including the housing and some small overtime assignments.  But with the living costs shooting up, even I am starting to notice it recently.  Anyways, this is not a go to China post.  I have some things I need to do here which will keep me here for a while longer.  But if I were non renewed because I told them there new rules and enforcement of old ones that treat us like children then no big deal.  I will hop over to China and make more money.  I told some of the Koreans about the recent Chinese salaries and they will start losing teachers in the next couple of years.  I mean if they are getting more arrogant because they think they can and they could for a while.  China had little going on 10 years back.  Pay was still quite low.  Ten years back the power was in their hands and they slowly started exerting it.  And still seem to be plus some bad province specific rules .  They really can't read the their surroundings?  If they don't it will be their fault and teachers will start leaving.  No pay raise and more and more being piled on.  But then it will be too late.  Many of the experienced teachers will be gone and they will eventually have to respond with massive salary hikes to compete whether they like it or not.  Whenever we got some ajossis being arrogant towards us pre Great Recession, we could push back and they were scared we'd leave and they backed down fast. 

Also I believe some of these schools there don't get too strict with deskwarming.  Salaries are reduced over there during winter and summer vacation.  But you can still collect some pay and save more overall plus get 2 or 3 months off a year.  No arguing over 3 extra days or not 3 extra days.  This is for public schools and universities (which are lower pay but more slack).  A private kindergarten or Chinese hakwon you can get some of those higher salaries with little vacation but bank a lot after a couple of years.  Depends on what you want.  Of course you can choose Shezhen which is a like a developed country and some recruiters offering public schools there lower pay like 18000 RMB including the housing pay.  No thanks.  EF also offering 15,000 including the housing.  No thanks.  Just do a search and seek out the opportunities.  China is a bit of the wild west like Korea was before 2010. 

Anyways, if non renewed, I have a plan B or C.  SO, I really have no fear.  I do need to stick around at least another year or two.  But it's not a big deal if I am not.  Whoopdie Doo.  Now someone said a sickday you will have points taken off your contract if you are sick?  I don't take many, but if I were sick for real then there'd be nothing I could do about it.  As someone else said, the education office had to give 3 more days and took them back out of spitefulness.  Well, again, no matter how much it triggers, there are options and no reason to be fearful.  The powers that be here had better wake up and see where they are going to be in a couple of more years. They will probably put their head in the sand and be stubborn.  Then again, who knows?  Maybe this August could have a pay raise?  At least if there is a raise, you put up with things. 

Anyways, I don't shy away from speaking my mind.  I try to be diplomatic and polite about it, but sometimes speak more bluntly.  I did tell a few folks about China and the equivalent Korean salary in China.  Lots of folks of course don't pay attention to their surroundings and put their head in the sand until it is too late.  It reminds me when I was reading on Daves in the fall of 2009 all these veteran teachers getting non renewed (and replaced with blond haired blue eyed slim 22 year old American females).  Out in the provinces, folks were still renewed more automatically.  But I saw the writing on the wall.  I was warning teachers in my area and they were dismissive of me.  Sure enough a year later in fall 2010 and spring 2011 and beyond, folks started getting non renewed and dropped at renewal time.  I paid attention to my surroundings and noticed the changing conditions.  I am doing the same thing now, though it is more in the nearby Asian neighborhood.  Supply and Demand.   Ten years ago, English teachers lost the power they had pre 2009.  We are slowly getting it back due to the ability to leave and nearby growth of teaching jobs.  Korea will be in for shock soon enough. 

As for the holidays given up.  I'll reduce the desk warming or some other way.  Maybe just argue and create stress.  Who knows?  Either way. 

hangook77, do you have any interests/hobbies besides waygook.org and ESL? Genuine question.

hangook77, do you have any interests/hobbies besides waygook.org and ESL? Genuine question.

I hope he only copy/pastes these long posts with the same content. Writing them new, every single time would be really dumb.

hangook77, do you have any interests/hobbies besides waygook.org and ESL? Genuine question.

Yeah though spending an hour of my desk warming time held hostage doesn't  count.  I rarely log in herr on weekends or holidays.  But being articulated and well spoken is hardly a matter of shame.  I made a good compelling case whether you listen or not.


Though admittedly if my schools let  me go home early like they did years ago I'd prob be on here less.  Sadly I am stuck till 4 30.  I gotta move back to the mountain towns.  Ha ha.

Anyways.  I have a married friend been married to a Korean for years.  She use to be the manager in a hakwon.  My friend just sent me this message.  Guess foreigners are waking up to stuff they don't have to take anymote due to othet options.   (He's been here longer than me.)

Anyways.  I have a married friend been married to a Korean for years.  She use to be the manager in a hakwon.  My friend just sent me this message.  Guess foreigners are waking up to stuff they don't have to take anymote due to othet options.   (He's been here longer than me.)

Is that intro an example of being articulate and well spoken?  Man, you were only second on this site for typos and writing errors but then PiggyDee left.  You is the champ now! 

Is that intro an example of being articulate and well spoken?  Man, you were only second on this site for typos and writing errors but then PiggyDee left.  You is the champ now!

What about me? :O I tend to write pretty poorly. :o

Nononono it's just your thoughts that are a jumbled mess. You actually articulate them quite accurately! :)

Is that intro an example of being articulate and well spoken?  Man, you were only second on this site for typos and writing errors but then PiggyDee left.  You is the champ now! 

Of course, don't debate on the substance.  Just pick apart spelling which my phone put in wrong versus when I am on the computer.  EIther way, the substance of what I said and what my friend said stands.

ah yes the substance stands... that "exploitative racist bitch" really got what was coming to her! foreigners waking up everywhere. workers of the world, unite!

Of course, don't debate on the substance.  Just pick apart spelling which my phone put in wrong versus when I am on the computer.  EIther way, the substance of what I said and what my friend said stands.

From the guy who doesn't even acknowledge people's counter points or rebuttals, but just calls them a recruiter, apologist or coward, that is just a tad hypocritical.  Don't have to look that far.  Just  read your reply to some specific points made by martino in a recent thread.  You completely refuse to engage when someone contradicts or challenges your assertions.  Don't then expect a different reaction to your blathering.  Grow up. 

I remember the 'pre-2008 exchange rate/get yer butt to korea cuz maritimes suck/payin' down my debts/the weather outside is perfect' Weigookin74. The 3-years-younger hangook77 undeniably takes after his older brother, but damn, with youth comes feistiness.

Sooooo anyway, going back to the topic of the vacation days.
In my contract (Gyeonggi), it says that we have 26 vacation days and we must observe the difference between "school vacation periods" and "paid leave" and that during school vacation periods, we are expected to fulfill 8 hours of work per day unless we have taken paid leave. I always took this as meaning summer and winter vacation (worded as "school vacation period" as the scheduling differs from school to school); even during those long vacation periods, you need to desk warm unless you take your paid leave. Everyone knows that fun time.

Note that it does not explicitly say that we need to use our paid vacation for discretionary holidays that your school decides to take, such as school anniversary or the days between a red day and a weekend (basically any day off during the semester that isn't a red day). These days are up to the school to decide to have off (like my school doesn't take off for its anniversary but my friend's does) and are different than vacation "periods" noted in our contracts. I was still a bit confused, but confirming this, I was told recently in a meeting with the supervisor of the English department present that we do NOT need to use our paid leave for these discretionary days off. Your school may tell you that you do, but you don't. I assume that this would be the case for anyone in Gyeonggi province, so try contacting your coordinator or supervisor to find out for sure if your school tries to tell you that you need to use these days.

From friends in Seoul though, I was told last year that in their contracts it does indeed say that they must use paid leave for discretionary holidays, but they are given 5 bonus days on top of their 26. When my friends renewed their contracts, they said that the 5 bonus days were presented like a renewal bonus, but really they were to make up for the discretionary days they were now being forced to use paid leave for.  I haven't read the Seoul contract so I don't know for sure, so if anyone in Seoul does know then let us know.

Long story but what I took from this was that if it does not say explicitly that your vacation must be used for discretionary holidays (not vacation periods), it might just be your schools not knowing the rules and assuming. I don't know how it is for other provinces, but if your school is adamant, like I said above, try contacting your coordinator or supervisor to find out for sure before being forced to accept it.

Sooooo anyway, going back to the topic of the vacation days.
In my contract (Gyeonggi), it says that we have 26 vacation days and we must observe the difference between "school vacation periods" and "paid leave" and that during school vacation periods, we are expected to fulfill 8 hours of work per day unless we have taken paid leave. I always took this as meaning summer and winter vacation (worded as "school vacation period" as the scheduling differs from school to school); even during those long vacation periods, you need to desk warm unless you take your paid leave. Everyone knows that fun time.

Note that it does not explicitly say that we need to use our paid vacation for discretionary holidays that your school decides to take, such as school anniversary or the days between a red day and a weekend (basically any day off during the semester that isn't a red day). These days are up to the school to decide to have off (like my school doesn't take off for its anniversary but my friend's does) and are different than vacation "periods" noted in our contracts. I was still a bit confused, but confirming this, I was told recently in a meeting with the supervisor of the English department present that we do NOT need to use our paid leave for these discretionary days off. Your school may tell you that you do, but you don't. I assume that this would be the case for anyone in Gyeonggi province, so try contacting your coordinator or supervisor to find out for sure if your school tries to tell you that you need to use these days.

From friends in Seoul though, I was told last year that in their contracts it does indeed say that they must use paid leave for discretionary holidays, but they are given 5 bonus days on top of their 26. When my friends renewed their contracts, they said that the 5 bonus days were presented like a renewal bonus, but really they were to make up for the discretionary days they were now being forced to use paid leave for.  I haven't read the Seoul contract so I don't know for sure, so if anyone in Seoul does know then let us know.

Long story but what I took from this was that if it does not say explicitly that your vacation must be used for discretionary holidays (not vacation periods), it might just be your schools not knowing the rules and assuming. I don't know how it is for other provinces, but if your school is adamant, like I said above, try contacting your coordinator or supervisor to find out for sure before being forced to accept it.

Almost right.  The vacation for SMOE used to be 21 days, they added 5 more on account of the discretionary days to make 26.  There is a separate 5 days of re-signing bonus.