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This year I'm teaching more 3rd grade classes than before and these kids can SCREAM.

We've spoken to the students about it, it's usually only a few kids in the class who get excessively excited and scream. It's more the high pitch than the volume that troubles me.

I'm not looking for ways to get them to quiet down, We're working on that.

I'm just wondering if anyone's suffered any kind of tinnitus or other auditory issues. Projecting my voice everyday definitely takes its tole, particularly in a larger classroom (ginger tea and shutting up for a few hours helps).


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6747

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
I think I've discussed my tinnitus a bit on here. Was diagnosed a few years ago. I would never attribute it completely to classroom activities, having had an airbag go off in the left ear in 2007 and brain surgery on the right side in.... 2011? I always would joke that "I still have my right ear! haha." That didn't last long.

I do, however make it a very clear point that excessive noise will not be tolerated in my classes at all. Even sans tinnitus, I wouldn't want that crap. Kids can get loud, and clap their hands, and laugh, that's fine. I'm not a curmudgeon. But the child "야~~~~~." Christ, it's enough to make one grab them by the collar and shake them while yelling STFU in their face. IT's truly one of the most awful sounds. "야~~~~~~ 민준아!!!~~~~~~~"

UGH. So, when I'm laying out the rules I always stress this, I will say hi to a student at the back of the class. The farthest possible student. They'll say hi back.

"See class. I an hear them. They were saying hi at a normal level and everyone could hear them, yes?"

I have no problem getting pissed and getting punishy when shit goes of the rails.

Last year was the first year I taught middle school and the kids weren't even here 75% of the time and this year it's slowly going back to normal. That said, the kids are older and, while the fun energy of the classroom has lowered considerably, my ears are the better for it.

If anyone wants a good recommendation for a movie, I watched "Sound of Metal" last Sunday. About a metal drummer who loses his hearing.

The acting is great and the sound design of the movie is REALLY good. Like "The Conversation" levels of good. Really effective.

SPOILER: Towards the end, when he goes without hearing again, that's when I realised the tinnitus was there. There's enough atmospherics in the audio to keep it at bay but the moment he took solace in that final moment, WEEEEEEEEEE. God damn, haha.
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5689

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Korean adolescents have a higher prevalence of hearing loss compared to their counterparts in our home countries (at least according to studies Iíve read).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0209254

The miced volume at school assemblies is so loud. Also sometimes the volume on classroom speakers are turned up to the max (if say there is a listening test).  Iím worried about the kids. Maybe knowledge about how loud noises can cause hearing loss (which often isnít bad until years down the road) isnít sufficiently thought about or widespread. More public education is needed.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5689

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Kids shout a lot in elementary school and gradually become more quiet with age. (They learn appropriate manners over time.)


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6747

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Korean adolescents have a higher prevalence of hearing loss compared to their counterparts in our home countries (at least according to studies Iíve read).

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0209254

The miced volume at school assemblies is so loud. Also sometimes the volume on classroom speakers are turned up to the max (if say there is a listening test).  Iím worried about the kids. Maybe knowledge about how loud noises can cause hearing loss (which often isnít bad until years down the road) isnít sufficiently thought about or widespread. More public education is needed.

I know this is a bit of a meme amongst us waygs, but it really drives me nuts, the "loud wayg" sterotype.

When I went back to Toronto 2.5 years ago I was blown away by how quiet it was, even walking down Yonge St, right in the core.

Another time, 7 friends and I went out for some Hanwoo BBQ in Wangsimni and we got a long table. There were 8 or 10 Korean............ uni age students at the table parallel to us. HOLY SHIT, loudest group of people I've ever heard in my life. It's Saturday night, it's a BBQ resto so we didn't really care 100% but we all kind of agreed it was a bit annoying.

The best part? 20 mins into the meal, the ajumma comes over and tells us that they were complaining how loud we were.

Like, no. Sorry. Just............. go die in a fire. Honestly. We all just stared at each other, processing the audacity.

Yeah, English sounds different, OBVIOUSLY. But no, sorry, dinkwads, you don't get to say that.   
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


I've got ringing in my ears 24 hours a day now. Sometimes it's low, sometimes it insanely loud and it gets worse at night. Shouting near me also causes a sharp pain, like a knife digging in. Admittedly, I've always had problems, like as kid, it used to sound like the inside of my head was the inside of a drum...echoes everywhere.

But yeah, the ringing has become much worse over the past 10 years. I also believe it's made worse by the constant shouting that passes for talking. Also, a real problem with my granddaughter. She, like young kids, tests her vocal range constantly. Hurts like crazy at times.


Or you know, it's years of listening to loud rock music and playing the guitar or spending every Friday night at some loud hip-hop club whatever or a bunch of nights playing Call of Duty or whatever and constant simulated gunfire and explosions going off through your amped up speakers.

But I'm sure no one here does any of that.


Or you know, it's years of listening to loud rock music and playing the guitar or spending every Friday night at some loud hip-hop club whatever or a bunch of nights playing Call of Duty or whatever and constant simulated gunfire and explosions going off through your amped up speakers.

But I'm sure no one here does any of that.

Don't be a douchebag, that's all I'm going to say.


Don't be a douchebag, that's all I'm going to say.
Could it be the kids or guy at mart screaming into mic guy? Sure. Its also just as likely the  things I listed above.


Could it be the kids or guy at mart screaming into mic guy? Sure. Its also just as likely the  things I listed above.

You don't know the habits of other people.

To come out guns blazing with this "It could very well be your irresponsible habits, maybe it's not the kids" BS is presumptuous and insulting to say to a bunch of educated
adults. We're not stupid and we know what we put our ears through better than you do.
Some posters here are dealing with some serious pain and ear issues and oftentimes, it's permanent. As a musician I've ALWAYS taken precautions for me ears and
it scares the shit out of me that I could suffer significant hearing damage one day.

If someone opens up about their struggle with cancer are you going to "Well, maybe you should've watched your diet" or are you going to be respectful?

I know you've got a very strong pro-Korea stance and that's fine, but you're seriously pushing it now and being a giant assh*le in the process.

If I were you I'd be a man and apologise for being so insensitive. That's just my opinion.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 08:00:27 pm by Aristocrat »


Or you know, it's years of listening to loud rock music and playing the guitar or spending every Friday night at some loud hip-hop club whatever or a bunch of nights playing Call of Duty or whatever and constant simulated gunfire and explosions going off through your amped up speakers.

But I'm sure no one here does any of that.

I'm so glad I'm not you. What happened to make you such a snarly, difficult person? I can only imagine. Everything you say just reeks of negativity and bitterness. No one wrote that Korea was to blame for their ear pain, just one contributing factor. We live here...can't really say it's the Mongolians that talk too loudly.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 09:12:32 pm by Kurt Sorensen »


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2506

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
I'm so glad I'm not you. What happened to make you such a snarly, difficult person? I can only imagine. Everything you say just reeks of negativity and bitterness. No one wrote that Korea was to blame for their ear pain, just one contributing factor. We live here...can't really say it's the Mongolians that talk too loudly.
Some are born asshoe, some achieve asshoeness, some have asshoe thrust upon them.


Yeah, it's established that teachers tend to suffer more hearing loss over time than do many other professions due to being surrounded by noisy students all the time.

My dad used to work as a correctional officer after he retired from the military. He definitely suffered hearing loss as a result of how loud it would get during inmates' meal times.

This is one of the reasons why I keep a lot of control over student volume during my time with them. I don't mind if they get excited during games and whatnot, but I won't tolerate outright screaming or yelling.


You don't know the habits of other people.

To come out guns blazing with this "It could very well be your irresponsible habits, maybe it's not the kids" BS is presumptuous and insulting to say to a bunch of educated
adults.
Actually, one of the dominant habits of people, regardless of education, is to draw conclusions based on circumstantial evidence and bias. It is also a habit to externalize blame. I didn't come out "guns blazing". I simply tried to caution people that they were being a bit presumptuous.

I absolutely acknowledged various factors. But unless you're OCD about things, odds are there's some form of recreation you're doing that exposes you to high levels of noise.

Quote
If someone opens up about their struggle with cancer are you going to "Well, maybe you should've watched your diet" or are you going to be respectful?
Well, if they're blaming their occupation but also engaged in risky behavior elsewhere, and this is on a public forum, then yes. Sorry, the person isn't entitled to their own fantasy land of blaming whoever, simply because they are afflicted.

It's one thing if you listed it as a contributing cause along with a bunch of other things and acknowledged other possibilities. But nope, it went straight to "It's the kids in my school."

As I said- It could very well be them. It could also be other factors.

Quote
I know you've got a very strong pro-Korea stance and that's fine, but you're seriously pushing it now and being a giant assh*le in the process.
No one's being an asshole. That's in your head. As for Korea, I'd make the same observation to any person in any country blaming a single cause for hearing loss that isn't in some sort of field where they don't already wear hearing protection. This is the 21st century and we know what people do, particularly younger people.

Why does this bother you? Do you think there shouldn't be someone saying "Maybe it's this other possibility?" Do you think opinions on here should go unchallenged? Do you think me saying those other factors is unreasonable or unlikely?

You just as easily could have said "Oh definitely, it could be one of those things too. Probably a combination of everything. This just adds another thing I have to worry about."  But instead you took offense for some reason.

Quote
If I were you I'd be a man and apologise for being so insensitive. That's just my opinion.
Or you know, not get so upset over this. No one is saying you're lying or a bad person. Just that before you go blaming one cause, perhaps consider it's another cause and that correlation isn't necessarily causation here. And on a public forum, it is fine for someone to point out that you may be jumping to conclusions. This isn't an attack on you. No need to take it so personally.


I'm so glad I'm not you. What happened to make you such a snarly, difficult person? I can only imagine. Everything you say just reeks of negativity and bitterness. No one wrote that Korea was to blame for their ear pain, just one contributing factor. We live here...can't really say it's the Mongolians that talk too loudly.
Well first off, someone did (L I).  Second off, this doesn't have anything to do with Korea. It has to do with occupation vs. recreation and leaping to conclusions. If a teacher back home blamed their noisy kids on some forum and then a bunch of other teachers did as well, I would do the same thing. There's a host of potential causes and you know what human beings are terrible at? Being a good judge of those. The fact is when we're engaged in recreation we have much different tolerances and perceptions of things vs. when we're engaged in work or in some situation we are involuntarily, doing an activity that isn't bringing us enjoyment. To suggest otherwise is to argue against organic chemistry and neurology and a bunch of other sciences. And this is before we even get to plain old aging.

FFS, people on here talk about being college educated adults, well the first thing a college educated adult should do is apply some sort of scientific reasoning to things and healthy skepticism.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 11:30:29 am by Mr.DeMartino »


https://health.clevelandclinic.org/8-jobs-that-lead-to-hearing-loss-and-how-to-prevent-it/

I'm a teacher. Have been for 32 years, 27 of those in Korea. I don't do any of those things (bar 1 on occasions) you suggest may be a problem regarding ear pain.
Korea is a loud place. More than a few Koreans are loud people. Korean children are really loud. As Chinguetti pointed out, teaching, especially over many years, often leads to hearing problems.

Now you! Once again would rather, in your own snide way, chuck in a sarcastic reply to a conversation that had piss all to do with you, unless you too suffer some ear problems. You weren't really saying 'what about these options' You were really just having a dig at posters for daring to mention Korea. Your style got old back on Dave's.

You know, I stay away from threads where you are being contrary and arguing with everyone. Stay away from threads where you can't add anything positive or at least humorous.

You're just a shit-stirrer Demartini. F***in grow up. What are you, nearly 40? Getting your jollies doing this kind of stuff, is just sad. At least I had the balls to apologize to you when I called you a #@$!#&*head.



  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2506

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Well first off, someone did (L I). 

What?  No he didn't!  He linked a study showing Korean young people's LNE, so how does that say Korea is responsible for foreign teachers' tinnitus?  It doesn't, that's how.  Your problematic relation with truth-telling is becoming more and more acute.

Quote
Second off, this doesn't have anything to do with Korea. It has to do with occupation vs. recreation and leaping to conclusions. If a teacher back home blamed their noisy kids on some forum and then a bunch of other teachers did as well, I would do the same thing.


Thus proving you can be wrong in a variety of formats.  Because, you see, you are wrong.  As usual:

Quote
A 2015 report from EPIC Hearing Healthcare showed that 15
percent of teachers reported a diagnosed hearing loss, compared to 12 percent
of workers nationwide. That might not seem like a large difference, but EPIC
also found teachers between the ages of 18 and 44 reported a higher rate of
diagnosed hearing problems (26 percent) than the national average (17 percent).
That 9 percent difference is evidence that a teacherís work environment is a
major contributing factor to their hearing difficulties.
and other studies here:
https://www.jameshearing.co.uk/teachers-risk-hearing-loss-impairment#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20recent%20study,other%20professionals%20(17%20percent).
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0034-72992007000200015&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en
http://www.bjorl.org//en-occupational-hearing-loss-in-teachers-articulo-S1808869415310727


Quote
There's a host of potential causes and you know what human beings are terrible at? Being a good judge of those. The fact is when we're engaged in recreation we have much different tolerances and perceptions of things vs. when we're engaged in work or in some situation we are involuntarily, doing an activity that isn't bringing us enjoyment. To suggest otherwise is to argue against organic chemistry and neurology and a bunch of other sciences. And this is before we even get to plain old aging.

FFS, people on here talk about being college educated adults, well the first thing a college educated adult should do is apply some sort of scientific reasoning to things and healthy skepticism.

Like, say, break into a reasoned discussion about the possible relationship between a noisy occupation and hearing loss and making untethered accusations about going to "loud hip-hop clubs", playing video games too loudly, and similar BS.  All while ignoring the possibility of doing even five minutes of research that shows the occupational hearing loss for teachers is definitely a thing. That kind of scientific reasoning from college educated adults?


What?  No he didn't!  He linked a study showing Korean young people's LNE, so how does that say Korea is responsible for foreign teachers' tinnitus?  It doesn't, that's how.  Your problematic relation with truth-telling is becoming more and more acute.
Oh please, don't be disingenuous.

If you really think that, then go after him for posting something off-topic.  Seriously. Because you are saying there isn't any connection between his post and this, then go after him hard for posting something off-topic and irrelevant and trying to muddy the situation.

Quote
https://www.jameshearing.co.uk/teachers-risk-hearing-loss-impairment#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20recent%20study,other%20professionals%20(17%20percent).
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0034-72992007000200015&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en
http://www.bjorl.org//en-occupational-hearing-loss-in-teachers-articulo-S1808869415310727
The bottom two are the same study. Also, that study is VERY preliminary.
Quote
Like, say, break into a reasoned discussion about the possible relationship between a noisy occupation and hearing loss and making untethered accusations about going to "loud hip-hop clubs", playing video games too loudly, and similar BS.  All while ignoring the possibility of doing even five minutes of research that shows the occupational hearing loss for teachers is definitely a thing. That kind of scientific reasoning from college educated adults?

Where did I ignore the possibility when I said "Could it be the kids or guy at mart screaming into mic guy? Sure."

And again, correlation does not prove causation. For starters there may be a host of reasons beyond just "the kids" that teachers may experience this. For example, given that teachers, unlike other professions, tend to have long summer holidays, is there a chance that they are more apt to engage in recreation that exposes them to loud noises? Are teachers more apt to be raised in environments that would expose them to loud noise as a childhood? Do they have greater rates of engaging in recreation that exposes them to hearing loss risk? These are the kinds of control factors that people have to do a deep dive into. Also, you have to look into the control group. Although information is given regarding the sample group, there is little information regarding the control group. Your control group MUST look as close to the sample group as possible. That is one of the major hurdles in many studies. For starters, they should have at least broken down the education and occupation of the other subjects. The kind of people who would be able to take time out of their day to participate in this study might not be representative of the population at large. Furthermore there is no breakdown of results by gender. Were male teachers more likely to experience hearing loss? What about by subject?

Also the subjects were female by a large majority. That is not the case on waygook.org. There could very well be differences there.

As for people here, just because they are teachers, doesn't mean their hearing loss is due to teaching. Again, what recreation do they do? Are there environmental factors? Were they already at reduced hearing levels as youths relative to other youths? Any underlying health conditions? Aging? There's no reason my suggestion that their hearing loss was potentially caused by other factors should have been summarily rejected.


 :huh: :huh: :huh:

He's done it again! Unbelievable!


:huh: :huh: :huh:

He's done it again! Unbelievable!
Do you have any specific rebuttals to the points I raised or are you just outraged that your views aren't being agreed with?