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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2021, 11:31:56 am »
What about just acting as a responsible corporate citizen rather than yet another complicit enabler?
How about platform vs. publisher? That's the standard we use because it's objective, not subjective.


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2021, 11:50:44 am »
Yeah, you see you're using the more recent definition of 'snowflake' which is someone who expresses an opinion about something you disagree with. I was referring to the original meaning  of 'snowflake' which is someone who gets emotionally upset about something to the extent that they can't deal with it.  It's useful to make the distinction, otherwise I can just accuse you of being butt hurt for complaining about things Trump says or moaning about me talking about BLM (the language you use e.g. 'black Americans wanting to be treated like human beings ' is far more indicative of this) and being a snowflake for objecting to me raising the question of freedom of speech and it can go round and round and get rather tedious. Do you see what I mean?  No, probably not.

ok boomer


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2021, 11:51:34 am »
(Lindsay Graham posting disingenuous crap to distract people)

He has a point.

Ok so let's ban Trump, the Ayatollah and Xi from Twitter. Great idea, thanks, I completely agree with you.


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2021, 11:54:27 am »
Well, even if my friend were to qualify under the original definition of a snowflake, I suspect that the more important snowflake to consider is Donald Trump himself. This twitter permanent suspension is perhaps one of the rare moments in which he's been told "no" for like the first time in his life. (The other times being the divorces of his previous wives.)

But I shudder when I think about how he might reply to this ban. Fortunately, extremist right-wing messaging boards like Parler have been removed from Google Play too.

I definitely do NOT want to bash the Republican Party of the United States; there are many good Republicans in the party. And the United States needs an ideological Republican Party of thoughtful people who respect the rule of law, and not a Trump social media cult. It wouldn't be healthy for American democracy to have two wildly different political parties, with one favoring the use of facts and the other one living in a (to put it euphemistically) fantasy-land of "alternative facts." The US-ROK alliance depends on a sound and fact-based consensus of both the Republican and Democratic parties of the United States.
A series of questions for you-
1) Do you believe that fraudulent elections take place in other countries around the world?
2) Do you believe our technology is substantively different compared to those other countries?
3) If it IS different, is that because it is based on computers? Old-style scan ballots? Different ones? In either case are they tamper proof based on world history?
4) Who gets to decide if an election has vote fraud taking place in other countries? Is it twitter? Is it only Western countries (who rigged plenty of elections around the world in the Cold War and happens to be the job of one of Trump's biggest foes- The CIA)?
5) Given twitters global reach, as well as its use during various civil protests, do you think having twitter as that arbiter is a good thing?
6) Given the points above, is it completely illegitimate for people to have questions about the election?
7) Doesn't banning dispute of the election results and any talk about them only further deepen the suspicion that its illegitimate?

"The right-wing authoritarian and nationalist Gen. Krull won a narrow election victory, defeating the hopeful progressive, President Sunshine. Although Sunshine lead throughout much of the night, a late surge in ballots counted at 2AM came in overwhelmingly for Krull. Experts have explained that this is due to the way mail-in ballots are counted and the unreported precincts being Krull's strongest base of support- the slums of the big cities. President Sunshine has called for a full audit, but various states are refusing. The media has denounced President Sunshine's claims of potential fraud as "baseless". Twitter pledged to flag or delete tweets challenging the legitimacy of the election and many are calling for President Sunshine to be banned from twitter so that General Krull may peacefully take over.

Krull has called on Sunshine to accept the results and embrace the voice of the people as they demand a return to normal and strength, order, booming business, speech codes and proper authority.

Do you think twitter stepping in and flagging tweets and issuing bans would be appropriate here?

This is your position at its logical conclusion.


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2021, 11:57:11 am »
You get butthurt about black Americans wanting to be treated like human beings despite being a Brit living in Korea. Also you got butthurt about Trump's "freedom of speech" after he got banned by Twitter (a private company) for inciting domestic terrorism.

Quit being a snowflake.
MayorHaggar, you're the last person on this board to lecture anyone about bigotry.


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2021, 12:00:52 pm »
I think you need to read up on what freedom of speech entails.

The first amendment blocks the federal government from controlling or censoring the speech of private individuals.

The first amendment does not prevent a private company like Twitter from enforcing its own terms of service and controlling or censoring the speech of users.

Anyone crying about "freedom of speech" is completely wrong when it comes to Twitter or other companies banning users like Trump for violating their terms of service.

You can argue about the terms of service but that is a contractual matter, and is absoluetely not a first amendment free speech issue. For instance we can't talk about religion here because the site admins have decreed it so. The US government does not run waygook.org and has no control over its user content.

An actual freedom of speech issue would be if a US state or the US Congress passed a law banning certain speech on Twitter. Or if a politician asked Twitter to ban certain users. (pretty sure Trump has done this but I could be wrong, he certainly tells his chud army to attack journalists all the time)

Just wanted to clear that up because we have a lot of uneducated people and non-Americans who don't understand what "free speech" means in the USA.


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2021, 12:01:27 pm »
MayorHaggar, you're the last person on this board to lecture anyone about bigotry.

ok boomer, so basically you have no argument


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2021, 12:38:26 pm »
Quote
I guess Twitter believes Trump is a greater threat to National security at present based on the available evidence.

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html

The fact that you think that what happened at the capitol is worse than a government pledged to eradicate the nation of Israel or the CCP and its genocide.



You do love making sh*t up don't you or is it a literacy issue ?  :laugh: Is it any wonder why so few people take you seriously.

Do you still think the events of last Wednesday will be forgotten by the super bowl?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 01:20:56 pm by Adel »


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2021, 01:22:41 pm »
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html

You do love making sh*t up don't you or is it a literacy issue ?  :laugh: Is it any wonder why so few people take you seriously.

I've always considered it as a mental issue with Marty.


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2021, 01:27:07 pm »

If you and twitter think Trump and what happened is a graver threat, I don't know what to say.



Then how abouts clamming up and going away?


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2021, 03:55:45 pm »
As Mr. DeMartino has directly replied to our last post, we wish to answer some of his questions, but we feel scared of a TL/DR reaction. We will therefore only answer the individual's hypothetical question, a question that concerns a hypothetical victory of conservative "General Krull" against a progressive "President Sunshine."

Assuming that your question pertains solely to a Western-style democracy, then we must insist on consistency. If "President Sunshine" seemed completely unhinged from reality and if "President Sunshine" offered baseless tweets contesting the legitimacy of a fair election, then yes---Twitter should flag the tweets of "President Sunshine" as divorced from the facts.

But Hillary Clinton (a rough analogue for "President Sunshine" here) never called for insurrection against the Capitol building. And neither did Al Gore.

We understand that right-leaning people in the former American colonies sense a bias against media perceived as left-leaning. But we suspect that these perceptions partly relate to a phenomenon known as "asymmetric polarization," a concept carefully vetted in peer-reviewed academic research. To make a (very) long story short, Republicans have become more ideologically extreme than Democrats in the United States because of the phenomenon of "asymmetric polarization." And so Republicans (justifiably or unjustifiably) will feel ignored by journalists and other vessels for the dissemination of information.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 03:59:50 pm by PaulineMacLeod »


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2021, 03:58:26 pm »
I think you need to read up on what freedom of speech entails. Having freedom of speech does not enable you to force someone to make a cake.  As Jordan Peterson had to explain again and again to people who were too stupid or unwilling to get it, he was arguing against enforced speech not the government telling him what he couldn't say (cue some inane comment from someone like Mayorhaggar at this point about lobsters/tidying your room) Telling people they have to do something against their religious beliefs goes against liberal democracy and I'm pretty sure if a government tried to force Muslim shop owners to sell pork or something, you'd be up in arms against it.

A freedom of speech issue would be something like this

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2593217/Christian-preacher-wins-13-000-wrongful-arrest-telling-gay-couple-Bible-says-homosexuality-sin.html

when a preacher was arrested for quoting the bible (which was later overturned) I'm guessing you and several others on this site would agree with the police action on this occasion, I personally wouldn't (no Mayorhaggar that doesn't mean I'm homophobic)



As always, you deliberately or unwittingly missed the point of the post.

Carry on with your fear!


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2021, 04:33:46 pm »
Neither the Ayatollah nor Xi incited an insurrection at the Capitol building last Wednesday where five people lost their lives

Yeah, I guess murdering Falun Gong, Christians and Muslims, putting 2 million Uyghurs in concentration camps, forced sterilization of Uyghur women, forced organ harvesting by Xi, pales in comparison to what Trump did.    :undecided: :undecided: :undecided:

There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2021, 04:41:03 pm »
Neither the Ayatollah nor Xi incited an insurrection at the Capitol building last Wednesday where five people lost their lives
I guess Twitter believes Trump is a greater threat to National security at present based on the available evidence.


Yeah, I guess murdering Falun Gong, Christians and Muslims, putting 2 million Uyghurs in concentration camps, forced sterilization of Uyghur women, forced organ harvesting by Xi, pales in comparison to what Trump did.    :undecided: :undecided: :undecided:
A red herring




I guess you're not an American? How is this an immediate  threat to their national security? 
Do you think  the CCP give a rat arse  about twitter? Ever heard of WeChat?
How many Chinese people do you know?  :-*
Ever watch Geoffrey Robertson's Hypotheticals? :laugh:
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 06:11:07 pm by Adel »


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2021, 06:22:25 pm »

I guess you're not an American? How is this an immediate  threat to their national security? 
Do you think  the CCP give a rat arse  about twitter? Ever heard of WeChat?
How many Chinese people do you know?  :-*
Ever watch Geoffrey Robertson's Hypotheticals? :laugh:

Well to answer your question about how many Chinese I know, a lot, I lived there for more than 2 years and still have many Chinese friends. Whether or not the CCP gives a rats ass about Twitter, see their latest Tweet about Uyghur women now no longer being baby making machines since they are now in concentration camps.

You can laugh all you want, but though the CCP isn't a direct threat YET, they most certainly are becoming more and more of a threat. Your point is moot by the way, we are talking about principles here, ban Trump because some people rioted but allow the CCP to tweet despite their human rights abuses.
Then again I have principles about human rights abuses, perhaps you don't??
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2021, 06:30:20 pm »
DM, this is one of the occasions where you and I really agree, Adel is living in a bubble (la-la land) where she thinks the whole of America is irreversibly damaged by last Wednesday and nothing else in the world matters.

This too shall pass. Am I condoning what happened? Of course not, Adel, but it's not the end of the world and Trump is certainly NOT in the league of the people under discussion.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • Adel
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2021, 07:04:15 pm »
Well to answer your question about how many Chinese I know, a lot, I lived there for more than 2 years and still have many Chinese friends. Whether or not the CCP gives a rats ass about Twitter, see their latest Tweet about Uyghur women now no longer being baby making machines since they are now in concentration camps.

You can laugh all you want, but though the CCP isn't a direct threat YET, they most certainly are becoming more and more of a threat. Your point is moot by the way, we are talking about principles here, ban Trump because some people rioted but allow the CCP to tweet despite their human rights abuses.
Then again I have principles about human rights abuses, perhaps you don't??

Dude, I've been teaching Chinese students for the last eight years. I have a lot of Chinese friends who regularly visit my home. A lot of them share my concerns regarding  Uyghurs and their cultural genocide but very few of them use twitter. They often ask me to engage with them via WeChat but I decline.

Nonetheless all of this is beside the point with regard to the immediate security threat that twitter, a private company , has decided that Trump has become to the United States. I agree that the CCP are an evil bunch of c**ts but their are infinite number evil c**ts in the world. Whether they are better or worse is than Donald Trump would make for an an interesting debating topic but it isn't the relevant to the topic at hand. Ie should Trump be banned from twitter after inciting his followers to commit an insurrection and prevented from committing any further seditiously violent acts.

Perhaps you are privy to greater logistical intel than twitter and better informed to make such judgments regarding the likelihood of further violence . I don't pretend to be better informed than twitter so I'll respect their judgment on this one.
 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 07:26:16 pm by Adel »


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2021, 07:56:23 pm »
DM, this is one of the occasions where you and I really agree, Adel is living in a bubble (la-la land) where she thinks the whole of America is irreversibly damaged by last Wednesday and nothing else in the world matters.

This too shall pass. Am I condoning what happened? Of course not, Adel, but it's not the end of the world and Trump is certainly NOT in the league of the people under discussion.

But perhaps that's because 1) the US has a much better set of firewalls against totalitarianism, and 2) Trump is just so crap at everything he turns his hand to, except whipping up uneducated people (the ones he loves)  with ad baculum arguments.


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2021, 08:15:45 pm »
Why does Twitter ban Trump and not CCP propaganda? It's simply a question of money, it always has been.

Trump was the leader of a Democratic nation. Before, during and after is term he amasses a sizeable following as well as a sizeable opposition and companies have decided and concluded that
they make more money by pandering to Trump's opposition than his support base. Trump and his support base are also not particularly harmful to said companies image meaning Twitter can do what they please.

Enter the CCP...

Leaders, groups and people from Democratic nations can, for the most part, handle criticism and discourse. The CCP can not and they will brutally fight back at any hint of criticism and cause significant financial damage
to companies like Twitter should they get on the CCP's bad side.

Twitter will ban Trump because they'll make more money, they wont touch the CCP because they'll lose a sh*t ton of money. Not politics, economics.


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2021, 08:29:08 pm »
Twitter has removed more than 170,000 accounts it says were tied to an operation to spread pro-China messages.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53018455

Twitter also revealed it has shut down more than a thousand Russia-based misinformation accounts.