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Trump permanently banned from twitter
« on: January 09, 2021, 12:17:10 pm »
Although I'm Canadian, I must say that I am absolutely delighted with this long-overdue decision. One of my American friends was crying because some people in Korea poke fun at her for belonging to a nation led by a racist who incites violence. But now, I think the healing will begin for her and similarly situated Americans in Korea.


  • stoat
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2021, 12:35:40 pm »
I don't like to bandy the word 'snowflake' around too much these days due to its overuse but I reckon your friend would definitely qualify under the original definition.  :smiley:


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2021, 12:46:06 pm »
Well, even if my friend were to qualify under the original definition of a snowflake, I suspect that the more important snowflake to consider is Donald Trump himself. This twitter permanent suspension is perhaps one of the rare moments in which he's been told "no" for like the first time in his life. (The other times being the divorces of his previous wives.)

But I shudder when I think about how he might reply to this ban. Fortunately, extremist right-wing messaging boards like Parler have been removed from Google Play too.

I definitely do NOT want to bash the Republican Party of the United States; there are many good Republicans in the party. And the United States needs an ideological Republican Party of thoughtful people who respect the rule of law, and not a Trump social media cult. It wouldn't be healthy for American democracy to have two wildly different political parties, with one favoring the use of facts and the other one living in a (to put it euphemistically) fantasy-land of "alternative facts." The US-ROK alliance depends on a sound and fact-based consensus of both the Republican and Democratic parties of the United States.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 12:56:08 pm by PaulineMacLeod »


  • Adel
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2021, 01:17:41 pm »

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html


It looks like a very sensible and well reasoned position, if not a little overdue.

Quote
Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021.

The potential for more violence still exists and they have to act responsibly.


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2021, 04:09:34 pm »
I don't like to bandy the word 'snowflake' around too much these days due to its overuse but I reckon your friend would definitely qualify under the original definition.  :smiley:



  • stoat
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2021, 04:48:15 pm »
Not sure what your airship pictures are all about, but I can assure you I am 100% certain that under no circumstances would I ever burst into tears over someone having a go at Boris Johnson.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 05:47:23 pm by stoat »


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2021, 06:05:34 pm »
You get butthurt about black Americans wanting to be treated like human beings despite being a Brit living in Korea. Also you got butthurt about Trump's "freedom of speech" after he got banned by Twitter (a private company) for inciting domestic terrorism.

Quit being a snowflake.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 06:08:13 pm by MayorHaggar »


  • stoat
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2021, 06:21:37 pm »
You get butthurt about black Americans wanting to be treated like human beings despite being a Brit living in Korea. Also you got butthurt about Trump's "freedom of speech" after he got banned by Twitter (a private company) for inciting domestic terrorism.

Quit being a snowflake.

Yeah, you see you're using the more recent definition of 'snowflake' which is someone who expresses an opinion about something you disagree with. I was referring to the original meaning  of 'snowflake' which is someone who gets emotionally upset about something to the extent that they can't deal with it.  It's useful to make the distinction, otherwise I can just accuse you of being butt hurt for complaining about things Trump says or moaning about me talking about BLM (the language you use e.g. 'black Americans wanting to be treated like human beings ' is far more indicative of this) and being a snowflake for objecting to me raising the question of freedom of speech and it can go round and round and get rather tedious. Do you see what I mean?  No, probably not.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 08:58:42 pm by stoat »


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2021, 09:35:01 pm »
A sexual predator, a traitor and a conman walk into a bar.



The bartender says, "What can I get you, Mr. President?"
 


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2021, 02:04:23 am »
In these very difficult times, I would hesitate to casually toss the label of "snowflake" to American expats like my friend in South Korea who honestly cry when they are mocked (in Korea) for coming from a country represented by Donald Trump.

And it's important to remember that the extreme fringes of Trump's most fervent supporters have a little too many uncomfortably awkward (and that's me trying to put a "positive spin" on this) connections to ill-informed (and that's again my frail attempt to euphemistically describe it!) groups like QAnon, One America News Network, and other white nationalists.

In a recently published New York Times article ("Confederate Battle Flag an Unnerving Sight in Capitol, 1/9/2021"), we are told that a Muslim-American student CRIED upon the sight of a Confederate Battle Flag in the capitol. Banning Trump on Twitter should serve as a warning to people who traffic in sedition, treason, and insurrection. People are free to disagree with the laws of the former British colonies of North America, but people are NOT free to disobey those laws.


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2021, 06:19:44 am »


He has a point.


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2021, 06:23:30 am »


He has a point.

Yes, I guess Xi can tweet too.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • Adel
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2021, 06:38:21 am »
Yes, I guess Xi can tweet too.

Neither the Ayatollah nor Xi incited an insurrection at the Capitol building last Wednesday where five people lost their lives, including a police officer. If they had their way that mob would've lynched the vice president. A lot of the perpetrators were stupid enough to stream it live on social media.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/reuters-photographer-says-pro-trump-rioters-wanted-to-hang-pence-2021-1?r=US&IR=T
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/trump-rioters-wanted-more-violence-worse/617614
There is evidence to suggest that this mob was looking to take hostages.
https://lenexweb.com/insurrectionists-didnt-just-come-to-invade-the-capitol-some-were-planning-to-take-hostages/

I guess Twitter believes Trump is a greater threat to National security at present based on the available evidence.
Does this help to alleviate the confusion?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 07:30:07 am by Adel »


  • waygo0k
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2021, 07:49:50 am »
Thank you GOP for your supreme Court decision dictating religious nutcases can refuse to bake cakes for gay weddings.

As always, when it comes to Conservatives...it's "free speech for me...none for thee!


  • stoat
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2021, 08:18:53 am »
I think you need to read up on what freedom of speech entails. Having freedom of speech does not enable you to force someone to make a cake.  As Jordan Peterson had to explain again and again to people who were too stupid or unwilling to get it, he was arguing against enforced speech not the government telling him what he couldn't say (cue some inane comment from someone like Mayorhaggar at this point about lobsters/tidying your room) Telling people they have to do something against their religious beliefs goes against liberal democracy and I'm pretty sure if a government tried to force Muslim shop owners to sell pork or something, you'd be up in arms against it.

A freedom of speech issue would be something like this

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2593217/Christian-preacher-wins-13-000-wrongful-arrest-telling-gay-couple-Bible-says-homosexuality-sin.html

when a preacher was arrested for quoting the bible (which was later overturned) I'm guessing you and several others on this site would agree with the police action on this occasion, I personally wouldn't (no Mayorhaggar that doesn't mean I'm homophobic)

« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 08:29:07 am by stoat »


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2021, 08:27:43 am »
Quote
Pretty bad day for freedom of speech too. No matter what you think about Trump.

I think you need to read up on what freedom of speech entails. Having freedom of speech does not entail the freedom to incite violence.  Many Supreme Court cases upholding restrictions on speech believed to be subversive have relied on the idea that such speech is forbidden because it incites, or is likely to lead to, violence or illegal actions.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 08:31:25 am by Adel »


  • stoat
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2021, 08:31:22 am »

I think you need to read up on what freedom of speech entails. Having freedom of speech does not entail the freedom to incite violence.  Many Supreme Court cases upholding restrictions on speech believed to be subversive have relied on the idea that such speech is forbidden because it incites, or is likely to lead to, violence or illegal actions.

True, freedom of speech does not entail incitement to violence and if Trump did this he should be taken to task. My issue,was whether Twitter should be acting as a publisher or a platform as someone else I think DM pointed out. The incitement to violence definition is growing wider and wider every day and nowadays often just includes opinions that go against the orthodoxy. E.g. Google removing videos containing lockdown skepticism from a regulated UK news outlet.  If Twitter is going to keep banning people under this umbrella heading, it's a bad thing for freedom of speech IMO.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 08:45:13 am by stoat »


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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2021, 08:44:18 am »
yeah i agree with stoat. since when did social media websites become arbiters of what is deemed okay or not? seems to becoming a trend


  • Adel
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2021, 09:08:11 am »
True freedom of speech does not entail incitement to violence and if Trump did this he should be taken to task. My issue,was whether Twitter should be acting as a publisher or a platform as someone else I think DM pointed out.

What about just acting as a responsible corporate citizen rather than yet another complicit enabler? It's not as though he wasn't warned. 

Nonetheless, perhaps you should clarify your position though because it appears a little contradictory. If you would prefer that laws are passed that deprive tech companies of liable protections for third-party comments, ie. removal of section 230 protections, as Trump has threatened to do,  then are you in favour the potential for more subversion of free speech not less.


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2021, 11:29:20 am »
Neither the Ayatollah nor Xi incited an insurrection at the Capitol building last Wednesday where five people lost their lives, including a police officer.
I guess Twitter believes Trump is a greater threat to National security at present based on the available evidence.
Does this help to alleviate the confusion?
The fact that you think that what happened at the capitol is worse than a government pledged to eradicate the nation of Israel or the CCP and its genocide, says all we need to know about your thought process and to what degree it's controlled by the media.

If you and twitter think Trump and what happened is a graver threat, I don't know what to say.

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