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  • tylerthegloob
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1888

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #100 on: January 12, 2021, 12:32:40 pm »
idk i think a lot of lefties still see the danger in allowing silicon valley (and others) to have so much power. when i look at what amazon web services (et al.) is doing to parler, i see how easily it could be a website/app that i care about. that said, it's really hard not to rub it in when you see conservatives crying about being "oppressed" by these kinds of ("free market") monsters they've created. it's a kind of "this is what we were talking about with the cakes. i guess you didn't realize someone might not want to serve you a cake someday"


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #101 on: January 12, 2021, 12:34:30 pm »
This from a guy whose spent the last four years defending a cult leader devoid of any real conservative ideological consistency!  :laugh:
Any idea why the Lincoln Project was formed?
His lack of conservative ideology was a feature in my book. I was willing to vote for him or Bernie. Whoever would seriously challenge the system and hopefully stand up to War, Inc.

Congrats on embracing the Neocons, the intel community, the cast of characters that gave us Iraq and the Patriot Act, and embracing corporate primacy all to get rid of Orange Man.

Great long-term thinking skills there.


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #102 on: January 12, 2021, 12:37:15 pm »
idk i think a lot of lefties still see the danger in allowing silicon valley (and others) to have so much power. when i look at what amazon web services (et al.) is doing to parler, i see how easily it could be a website/app that i care about. that said, it's really hard not to rub it in when you see conservatives crying about being "oppressed" by these kinds of ("free market") monsters they've created. it's a kind of "this is what we were talking about with the cakes. i guess you didn't realize someone might not want to serve you a cake someday"

I see your point, but there isn't exactly an amazon of cake stores lol


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #103 on: January 12, 2021, 12:58:00 pm »
He damned well deserves to get banned from Twitter. And after January 20th he should get banned from entering Washington DC.


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #104 on: January 12, 2021, 01:04:56 pm »
I think it speaks volumes that people are more obsessed with Trump being banned from twitter than civil liability.

A little Black Mirrorish.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2627

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #105 on: January 12, 2021, 01:59:00 pm »
This is true. Regardless of whether Trump deserves to be banned or not, America is definitely more corporatist than capitalist. Gov't has been slacking on breaking up monopolies as they should. Amazon got richer this year while continuing to kill small businesses at an accelerated rate due to covid.

How about corporations over a certain market value or capitalization (market value) move into a different tax bracket.  A higher corporate tax rate and more anti competitive regulations to follow once over a certain size nationally or internationally and perhaps a lower threshold if holding a monopoly in a small local region.  Incentivize breaking up into smaller entities.  No more of this too big to fail and no more of entire monopolies.  Perhaps excepts may still be allowed with some utilities, but everything else break up or just tax them much more to encourage volunatry break ups.  Corporations below a certain market value can pay a lower corporate tax rate.  (Though some joint ventures between smaller corporations could still be approved for a 5 or 10 year period if economies of scale are necessary to get a project off the ground.)  Also, higher tax rate for incomes over 5 million dollars, instead of proposed for 250,000 or 400,000 dollars or whatever it is nowadays.  The real rich, the millionaires and billionaires can pay a bit more since they seem to have money to spend on corruption and financing total government and corporate fascism.  Some traditional liberals and some new libertarian populists can forge a new ideology and a new party going forward.  Low taxes and simple regulations for the working guy (including upper middle class) and the small to medium sized companies.  Difficulty for too large of companies and monopolies. 

It seems big tech and big banks are conspiring together with the deep state to silence any voices of disagreement and to cancel people's lives.  It is a complete takeover and it is dangerous.  And to all the SJWs applauding this, don't be surprised once they turn on you too once your "useful idiot" status is no longer needed.  Once freedom is gone, it is hard to get it back. 

NO one should be banned including those for Trump and those against Trump. 


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #106 on: January 12, 2021, 02:11:43 pm »
No, that's what you want the issue to be.  Most Americans don't like the idea of foreign countries poking their noses in American elections, especially if they try to sway the results, which is exactly and indisputably what Russia did.  As Republican-led Senate investigations found.  Period.
Most Americans are blissfully ignorant of the extent to which America has interfered in elections across the globe since the 1950s. They're also blissfully unaware to the extent we interfered in Russia's domestic politics. Finally they are unaware as to how ineffectual the Russian "interference" was, as are they blissfully unaware of the extent of Chinese, Saudi, and Israeli interference, which was surprisingly never addressed.

Any comments on that lack of interest in Chinese, Saudi, and Israeli interference Mr. C?

Quote
And the fact is, as far as criminal collusion, the jury is out on that, because there was so much obstruction, the investigation could never get to the bottom of it.
Or you can just use common sense. Common sense such as-
1) The lack of serious response by our allies. If Trump truly was in league with Russia, there would have been massive sanctions against Russia, a direct attempt to remove Trump, military alerts, etc. None of that happened.
2) The fact that American companies haven't embraced Russian firms for advertising.

But I understand how the easily duped would believe it was real. "Look this FBI big wig says its real. He says they spent MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! That makes it real and effective!"

Also, it was drummed up by the same crew involved in the Iraq War and domestic spying. Definitely a trustworthy cast of characters.

Quote
But you don't really care about trying to overturn American democracy, whether its the Russian fascists or the Trump fascists.
Wrong. I believe that not ******** myself in fear and panic and falling for propaganda only the stupid would believe is safeguarding American democracy.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 08:01:12 am by Kyndo »


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 742

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #107 on: January 12, 2021, 02:42:49 pm »
I think its hilarious both conservatives and liberals have completely flipped their positions on this thanks to Trump. No principles whatsoever, just pure Team.

Flipped how, exactly? Like Tyler said, a lot of us on the left do have concerns about monopolistic corporate power. Conversatives aren't offering constructive solutions to that by selectively complaining about censorship. I know it might look like we approve of such censorship if we don't speak out against it every time, but as I said, I have no expectation that a private enterprise is going elevate an abstract principle like free speech above what it perceives to be its own interests. Add that to the fact that erroneous content moderation accounts for a lot of this censorship, and basically you have a problem, but not the problem that conservatives have invented for their grievance strategy.



Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #108 on: January 12, 2021, 02:48:41 pm »
Flipped how, exactly? Like Tyler said, a lot of us on the left do have concerns about monopolistic corporate power. Conversatives aren't offering constructive solutions to that by selectively complaining about censorship. I know it might look like we approve of such censorship if we don't speak out against it every time, but as I said, I have no expectation that a private enterprise is going elevate an abstract principle like free speech above what it perceives to be its own interests. Add that to the fact that erroneous content moderation accounts for a lot of this censorship, and basically you have a problem, but not the problem that conservatives have invented for their grievance strategy.
That's fine and I do think there are principled liberals on this board and you're absolutely right in your view of them as well as your critique of conservatives.

I also think a number of so-called liberals on this board are little more than tribalists and might as well be the other side of the hangook77 coin.


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 742

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #109 on: January 12, 2021, 03:07:10 pm »
I would totally collect hangook77 coins.


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 742

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #110 on: January 12, 2021, 05:00:29 pm »
Let's do a little thought experiment.

Imagine we're talking about, say, Sudan. Or Venezuela. Or Pakistan.

President X is a notorious blowhard who uses Twitter as his main mouthpiece for bragging and lying. His style gets under a lot of people's skin, but his supporters think he's a refreshing alternative to establishment politics. For months he's been saying that if he wins an upcoming election, it will be legitimate but if he loses it will be because the other side cheated. Most people expect him to lose, complain about it on TV, then shuffle away. He does, in fact, lose the election and his inevitable fraud claims prove beyond credibility. Still, he persists, using every media outlet available to propagate this falsehood, bringing numerous sympathetic TV reporters, commentators and parasitic politicians along for the ride. People still assume that he'll eventually go away.

He starts advertising a big rally for the day of his opponent's electoral certification by the country's Parliament, generally an uneventful bureaucratic affair. Twitter seems to his favorite tool for spreading misinformation about the integrity of the country's election. By this point, people are starting to get nervous about the fact he won't concede and appears to be actively undermining the country's democratic structure. His rally attracts tens of thousands of people and, as expected, he whips them up into a collective rage with his falsehoods about the "stolen" election. Not longer after he encourages his supporters to descend on the Parliament building, they do exactly as instructed, and it soon becomes a riot. His supporters invade the building, beat a police officer to death, vandalize the parliamentary chambers and chant about murdering politicians who "betrayed" President X by following the country's electoral laws.  In addition to the police officer, four more people die in the melee.

President X describes the vandals and murderers as "beautiful people" some hours before offering a token statement against violence. The next day, he is back on Twitter, making more false statements about the election. Twitter suspends his account.

Does anyone really think that the reaction of T.Rex, stoat, hangook77, etc. would be: "The real travesty here is Twitter's affront to freedom of speech"?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 05:03:19 pm by fka »


Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #111 on: January 12, 2021, 05:04:25 pm »
Sounds pretty run of the mill. The kind of story we yawn a.


  • Adel
  • Expert Waygook

    • 849

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
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Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #112 on: January 12, 2021, 05:14:44 pm »
That's fine and I do think there are principled liberals on this board and you're absolutely right in your view of them as well as your critique of conservatives.

I also think a number of so-called liberals on this board are little more than tribalists and might as well be the other side of the hangook77 coin.
That's fine and I do think there are principled liberals on this board and you're absolutely right in your view of them as well as your critique of conservatives.



Ah yes!  What liberal amongst us  could possibly turn our backs on that well cited principle of allowing one the  freedom to incite violence and insurrection!

 :laugh:







Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #113 on: January 13, 2021, 12:16:20 am »
To Mr. C: As a stereotypically polite Canadian, we did not make any attempt to tell others what to post---do not worry! The sentence "As we started this thread on the topic of Trump permanently banned from Twitter, we will try to keep our replies to Mr. DeMartino confined to this theme" actually only uses the highly formal "we," but the pronoun "we" doesn't refer to the entire community posting on this website. We use the pronoun "we" in the royal sense, as we are the very distant cousin of a margrave. The status doesn't do anything practical for us, but when we sit at some auction house tea gathering, the host will usually allow us to sit to his/her right---even if we are dressed in horrible clothing. This situation has happened a few times, and some rich and stuck-up people get upset because of that.

Now, moving to Dr. DeMartino's reply to our last post---if Russian interference seemed ineffective, then the argument could be made that only the sheer incompetence of actors on the side of the former North American colonies made it so. It reminds us of how the worst crime (from a humorous standpoint) of the Capitol insurrectionists was their utter stupidity in getting photographed while not wearing masks (and thus becoming more easily identifiable by law enforcement agencies). Anyway, just a question from our end to yours (just so that we can honestly discern the thought processes on your side): which punishment seems more detrimental to Trump's hopes of representing his followers---the suffocation of his media megaphones (Twitter, and so forth), or the second impeachment that may come his way this week?


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4427

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #114 on: January 13, 2021, 01:42:17 am »
I think its hilarious both conservatives and liberals have completely flipped their positions on this thanks to Trump. No principles whatsoever, just pure Team.
So it wasn't Elizabeth Warren going after Facebook?


  • T_Rex
  • Veteran

    • 171

    • April 23, 2019, 08:10:20 am
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #115 on: January 19, 2021, 07:33:31 am »
"The tech giants essentially blamed Parler for the sickening attack on the United States Capitol and destroyed the entire platform as punishment. But anyone with a Facebook or Twitter account could tell you that Parler — social media’s new kid on the block — could not have been the sole facilitator of communication between rioters....

"Amazon, Apple and Google have long hosted websites and apps that exploit children, give dictators a platform, and allow other harmful, criminal behavior to go unchecked while arguing it’s not their job to edit the internet.

"Yet they ripped Parler from the face of the internet for failing to meet a standard to which no one else is held. Not only is this unfair, but it won't change anything....

"The rise and fall of Parler is a chilling lesson for small businesses everywhere: Amazon, Apple, and Google control access to the internet."
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2021/01/16/opinion-big-tech-parler-trick-pretend-content-moderation-matters/4178474001/

Is this a free market? It's certainly not a fair one.


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2546

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #116 on: January 19, 2021, 07:49:42 am »
"The tech giants essentially blamed Parler for the sickening attack on the United States Capitol and destroyed the entire platform as punishment. But anyone with a Facebook or Twitter account could tell you that Parler — social media’s new kid on the block — could not have been the sole facilitator of communication between rioters....

"Amazon, Apple and Google have long hosted websites and apps that exploit children, give dictators a platform, and allow other harmful, criminal behavior to go unchecked while arguing it’s not their job to edit the internet.

"Yet they ripped Parler from the face of the internet for failing to meet a standard to which no one else is held. Not only is this unfair, but it won't change anything....

"The rise and fall of Parler is a chilling lesson for small businesses everywhere: Amazon, Apple, and Google control access to the internet."
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2021/01/16/opinion-big-tech-parler-trick-pretend-content-moderation-matters/4178474001/

Is this a free market? It's certainly not a fair one.

Parler has re-surfaced again on Russian servers. Enjoy your freedom, comrade!


  • T_Rex
  • Veteran

    • 171

    • April 23, 2019, 08:10:20 am
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #117 on: January 19, 2021, 08:04:50 am »
Parler has re-surfaced again on Russian servers. Enjoy your freedom, comrade!
Will it be reappearing in the Android and Apple app stores? I don't think so. It gets discriminated against for leaning libertarian and not being on board with the left wing agenda of the Dems, the tech giants, and the msm.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1730

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #118 on: January 19, 2021, 08:17:36 am »
I thought it was removed from those platforms for refusing to censor its content in the same way FB et al are required to?

Could you provide a link to a reputable source that cites different reasons? Because if the above is not the case, that would be something to be genuinely upset about.


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Trump permanently banned from twitter
« Reply #119 on: January 19, 2021, 08:24:04 am »
I thought it was removed from those platforms for refusing to censor its content in the same way FB et al are required to?
Knowing Parler, this is pretty likely to be the case
I think the more interesting question is why are they only dropping it now, seeing as the apps always been like that