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  • stoat
  • The Legend

    • 2087

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2020, 04:47:02 pm »
Being judged on criteria you're not aware of is like being on trial for a crime you're not told about. Kafkaesque


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2282

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2020, 04:15:52 pm »


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4525

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2020, 07:24:02 am »
Of course.  It's all Trump's fault somehow.  A virus spreads no matter who the leader is.  They just needed a narrative to give him bad press and try to make him lose. 
Keep telling yourself that.  It's all the virus's fault, not the guy who said it didn't exist, would disappear, encouraged people to ignore it, refused to step up and implement a federal initiative to halt the pandemic, who held super spreader events, the guy whose job it was to lead and abdicated all responsibility.

What beautiful lies trump and his cultists tell.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1970

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2020, 11:06:53 am »
those evaluations are a joke. is there even a criteria to be judged on? if there is, i've never been shown it. would probably be nice to know what you're judged on before the class, but i suppose that would be too much professionalism for public schools.

I know there is an actual evaluation form, as one of my ex-coworkers and I would joke about it fairly often, and she mentioned having had to fill one out.
I think I'm gonna go ask my school for a blank copy of it tomorrow, and see what happens!  :smiley:


Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2020, 04:43:14 pm »
Keep telling yourself that.  It's all the virus's fault, not the guy who said it didn't exist, would disappear, encouraged people to ignore it, refused to step up and implement a federal initiative to halt the pandemic, who held super spreader events, the guy whose job it was to lead and abdicated all responsibility.

What beautiful lies trump and his cultists tell.

And yet despite all that it's flaring up again and again across Europe and Canada. Yes dipshit Euros and stupid anti-Trumpers ignored science and believed that everything was because of Trump.

They've been proven wrong. The virus doesn't spread because of Trump or what he says. It spreads because people are people and live lives in 21st century developed economies and all the behavior that entails. Duh.

Only idiots would think Trump's tweets and proclamations and empty statements like "believe science" are what affects the virus. Seriously, how stupid do you have to be to think that?


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4626

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2020, 04:46:56 pm »
can we not make this trump thread number 32489327498734


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2282

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2020, 05:15:57 pm »
I expect people will stop talking about the current President of the United States of America when he leaves office.

Obama used to be on every second thread.

It's the nature of the beast.


  • hippo
  • Super Waygook

    • 313

    • July 16, 2011, 11:28:36 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2020, 08:33:49 pm »
Maga Rally Livestream

This is outrageous and irresponsible. 


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1226

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2020, 10:15:24 am »
can we not make this trump thread number 32489327498734

lol


Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2020, 10:49:19 am »
Also, remember when everyone thought Korean spitting, not covering their mouths when coughing, non hand-washing, sharing food, and everything else would mean a pandemic would run riot here while it wouldn't be as bad back home.

1 poster here was able to look at that and think it was horseshit. 1 person was able to notice that flimsily covering your mouth with your hand was not the prophylactic measure people claimed it to be.

Of course those people wrong about that also blame Trump and shout nonsense like "Finally we have a President who will believe science."

As if they themselves engage in anything resembling scientific, rational thought.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1970

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2020, 11:12:07 am »
Also, remember when everyone thought Korean spitting, not covering their mouths when coughing, non hand-washing, sharing food, and everything else would mean a pandemic would run riot here while it wouldn't be as bad back home?

I think people were complaining that it was unhygienic, not that it would cause a pandemic. If that was actually stated, that would be pretty darn hyperbolic and would deserve a good lolling.

Korea's response to Covid19 has been exemplary, and that's nothing to spit on!


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2958

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2020, 12:06:02 pm »
I think people were complaining that it was unhygienic, not that it would cause a pandemic. If that was actually stated, that would be pretty darn hyperbolic and would deserve a good lolling.

Korea's response to Covid19 has been exemplary, and that's nothing to spit on!


Yet Covid is going through the roof.  the point is you can't blame anyone.  It's a virus and will run it's course, especially during colder weather.  It wasn't Trump's fault, nor is it Moon Jae In's fault.  It is simply what it is.  Take personal precautions and stay safe. 

I use anti bacterial wipes and clean the door handles to my room, the tables, chairs, countertops, computer keyboard and mouse, etc.  Lots of things to do.  I don't trust anyone else to clean and sanitize as they should a few times a day.  (It's why I haven''t been to a gym in a year.  You know no one is getting of their lazy ass to sanitize and clean all the equipment several times a day.  Also, heavy breathing while wearing a mask is uncomfortable.  Get more window guards or something.   

The point is a lot of folks letting their guard down.  I do take the mask off when it gets to be a bit much.  But I also sanitize the hell out of my room and work space. so touching something and then touching my mask means I am not in danger (or as much). 

As for the spitting and hacking everywhere, use to be a lot of bad habits here.  TB use to be rampant here too, especially amongst the older generation.  I got my twinrix hep A and B shots in the mid 2000's just to be safe.  (Especially with sharing food with shared chopsticks at the table.)  I take responsibility for myself.  Trump and Moon Jae In don't take responsibility for me nor do I assign them blame. 


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1970

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2020, 12:31:54 pm »
What you say is true, but a government that takes a problem seriously will be able to do a lot more than a government that does not.
Korea invoked emergency powers at the beginning of the epidemic. By doing so, they gave themselves the power to track its citizens, to detain those that did not comply with safety regulations, and laid out a well planned course of action for controlling the spread of the virus.

    While these actions in and of themselves were quite effective, it also showed the Korean people that this was not something that could be safely ignored. Treating Covid19 like a serious issue right from the very beginning made it far easier to control its spread.

Also, you're correct that Covid is going through the roof here in Korea: the numbers are higher than ever.
However, even with the 1,030 new cases per day (1:52,000), Korea is doing several orders of magnitude better than various other countries.
For example, the USA had 207,444 confirmed cases. (1:1,600)  :huh:
   A lot of that is due to the horribly politicized response to the epidemic. Nearly half that country refuses to take effective measures against the virus because "that's what the other team does". :sad:

TL;DR: I disagree: while happenstance, culture, and bad luck can account for some, a countries government certainly is responsible for a portion of the blame too.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 12:33:50 pm by Kyndo »


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2958

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2020, 01:14:12 pm »
What you say is true, but a government that takes a problem seriously will be able to do a lot more than a government that does not.
Korea invoked emergency powers at the beginning of the epidemic. By doing so, they gave themselves the power to track its citizens, to detain those that did not comply with safety regulations, and laid out a well planned course of action for controlling the spread of the virus.

    While these actions in and of themselves were quite effective, it also showed the Korean people that this was not something that could be safely ignored. Treating Covid19 like a serious issue right from the very beginning made it far easier to control its spread.

Also, you're correct that Covid is going through the roof here in Korea: the numbers are higher than ever.
However, even with the 1,030 new cases per day (1:52,000), Korea is doing several orders of magnitude better than various other countries.
For example, the USA had 207,444 confirmed cases. (1:1,600)  :huh:
   A lot of that is due to the horribly politicized response to the epidemic. Nearly half that country refuses to take effective measures against the virus because "that's what the other team does". :sad:

TL;DR: I disagree: while happenstance, culture, and bad luck can account for some, a countries government certainly is responsible for a portion of the blame too.

The US has had a lot of problems.  But being a large country with strict seperation between States and the Federal Government has sometimes led to problems.  Koreans do have less civil liberties written into their Constitutions and the national government has a lot more power.  In the US, citizens have rights many more than most other democracies, the States have a lot of power and control.  The States share as much to blame as the Feds.  Cuomo running off his mouth while having record number of deaths still occurred.  What was different was the coastal areas were getting hammered in the spring and the interior has been getting hammered now. 

Korea with it's system allowing the government to have more power federally (it use to be dictatorship until 30 years or so ago) and it's experience with MERS in 2015 when another woman was President, allowed a fast initial response this time.  It had little to do with Moon.  But his party got credit and got a big majority in legislative elections temporarily suspending his plummeting approval ratings.  Now they are falling again and covid is spiking including places which were initially safe in the spring outside of Seoul.  Has a lot in common with the US that way. 

The US is the 3rd largest country in the world. It will have high numbers regardless.  China's numbers aren't real.  How many developing countries are testing and reporting accurately also?  Yes, it does suck and I do take it seriously myself.  It is real and it came from a bio lab in Wuhan most likely.  The point is I take responsibility for myself and watch my own ass.  Government nor anyone else will ever have my best interests at heart. 

As for the US, most aren't willing to trade in their freedoms and rights for temporary convenience of control.  The downside is that the feds bureaucracy does seem to bungle things sometimes.  As I understand it, the bird flu of 2009 was screwed up badly by Biden and Obama.  Complete incompetence.  They just got lucky it went away fast.  Had it have gone big like this, folks would have been blaming them too. 


Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2020, 01:36:24 pm »
I think people were complaining that it was unhygienic, not that it would cause a pandemic. If that was actually stated, that would be pretty darn hyperbolic and would deserve a good lolling.
Not that it would CAUSE a pandemic, but in a pandemic, Korea would do far worse because of certain habits, while covering your mouth while coughing was some great deterrent to disease rather than what I declared it to be- Pretty much a performative gesture. Not to mention every other claim that Koreans are so incompetent they couldn't manage anything and would panic and blah blah blah.

Seriously, all those people who said that crap pre-pandemic should eff off permanently with their opinions on culture and whatnot.

  TB use to be rampant here too, especially amongst the older generation. 
I'm not sure the term "rampant" is appropriate, more like higher than most of the developed world, not as bad as most developing countries.

Quote
  (Especially with sharing food with shared chopsticks at the table.)
Not the danger that people have made it out to be, or else Korea would have been completely infected.

Quote
  A lot of that is due to the horribly politicized response to the epidemic. Nearly half that country refuses to take effective measures against the virus because "that's what the other team does". :sad:
That's debatable. Trump could have "listened to the scientists" (whatever that rubbish phrase means) and still gotten an outcome that was the same. The Dems and media still would have ripped him to shreds. Trump could have instituted a national mask mandate and people would bitch and moan that he was a dictator and trying to throw poor people in jail or whatever. Obama could have been president and done the exact same things and the media would have proclaimed him a hero and blamed flyover country. People still wouldn't listen about masks. So much of this comes down to things other than "leadership". The natural urge of people is to look towards "leadership" for an explanation rather than more mundane reasons.

I mean, look at the idiots who think NZ's results are more due to leadership rather than having a small population on an island in the middle of nowhere. Yet the majority of people seem to believe that "leadership" was the decisive factor in NZ's case.

"Leadership" is so meaningless. We've seen the thing flare up repeatedly in Europe and Canada which have "good leadership" and "listen to science", but guess what they also have? Human beings in the developed world who do human things.

As far as Asia's numbers being substantially lower, I think that tracing protocols might have some effect, but mostly there's probably a genetic element to it. The tracing protocol here is good, but it's not like the second an outbreak happens they're tracking you down and a frickin CDC team is rolling up like the SWAT van and testing you. I remember when the Itaewon outbreak happened they gave people like, days to show up, during which people were putzing around.

Our systems are designed to essentially function regardless of "leadership". Our behavior is unchanged because of "leadership". Look at our personal behavior under Obama vs. Trump or Moon or Park Geun hye, anything change because of who the leader was? No, because we're in a 21st century developed economy. We do the same things- Wake up, go to work, grab lunch, work some more, go out or go home after work, do some shopping, entertainment and maybe travel on the weekends, eat, drink, f*ck, etc. etc. Same shit around the world and THAT has far more impact on viral spread than "leadership" or "listening to scientists" or "treating the issue seriously." Both Belgium and Germany have all those things in common and got completely different outcomes. Who knows why, but it isn't one of those factors.

Finally "listening to scientists" is one of the dumbest things out there. For starters, it's the kind of thing said by someone who has never been in a leadership position in a large, financially powerful institution. Anyone who has would know that "scientists" are telling leaders to do certain things every day and on top of that the scientists all have different opinions and think they should be running things. And that's just within a discipline. Then you got one kind of scientist saying the other scientists are full of shit because they aren't accounting for Factor X because their science doesn't deal with that. Add in the fact that it's a fog of war situation with incomplete information and well it's not so simple. This isn't like a Chernobyl or some Asteroid heading at the Earth. This is something that you have to listen to a lot of different experts on because it affects a lot of different fields and isn't a single confined object.

Finally, you can tell "leadership" and "listening to scientists" are horseshit points due to the lack of specificity. The vaguer the claim is, the less it is rooted in actual science and actual truth.


Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2020, 01:39:37 pm »
As I understand it, the bird flu of 2009 was screwed up badly by Biden and Obama.  Complete incompetence.  They just got lucky it went away fast.  Had it have gone big like this, folks would have been blaming them too.
Nope, media would have covered for them like they did back then.

"But they listen to scientists."  :rolleyes: 

And don't forget their precious pandemic playbook which is about as detailed, informative, and relevant as whatever training manual you get tossed by EPIK when you start teaching. In other words, it's sole purpose is to check off a box and it's best function is as a paper weight. Meanwhile idiots who have zero reading comprehension or understanding look at it and go "Oooooooo it looks so pretty and it has big words and flow charts...it must be a serious document!"


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1988

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2020, 01:47:07 pm »
Nope, media would have covered for them like they did back then.

"But they listen to scientists."  :rolleyes: 

And don't forget their precious pandemic playbook which is about as detailed, informative, and relevant as whatever training manual you get tossed by EPIK when you start teaching. In other words, it's sole purpose is to check off a box and it's best function is as a paper weight. Meanwhile idiots who have zero reading comprehension or understanding look at it and go "Oooooooo it looks so pretty and it has big words and flow charts...it must be a serious document!"
Wasn't it the swine flu?

Anyways, the swine flu wasn't nearly as deadly as covid-19. And it hit young kids more than adults since it was a flu derivative, and most adults have pretty good flu immunity.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1970

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2020, 01:56:20 pm »
The US has had a lot of problems.  But being a large country with strict separation between States and the Federal Government has sometimes led to problems.  Koreans do have less civil liberties written into their Constitutions and the national government has a lot more power.  In the US, citizens have rights many more than most other democracies, the States have a lot of power and control.  The States share as much to blame as the Feds.  Cuomo running off his mouth while having record number of deaths still occurred.  What was different was the coastal areas were getting hammered in the spring and the interior has been getting hammered now. 

Korea with it's system allowing the government to have more power federally (it use to be dictatorship until 30 years or so ago) and it's experience with MERS in 2015 when another woman was President, allowed a fast initial response this time.  It had little to do with Moon.  But his party got credit and got a big majority in legislative elections temporarily suspending his plummeting approval ratings.  Now they are falling again and covid is spiking including places which were initially safe in the spring outside of Seoul.  Has a lot in common with the US that way. 

The US is the 3rd largest country in the world. It will have high numbers regardless.  China's numbers aren't real.  How many developing countries are testing and reporting accurately also?  Yes, it does suck and I do take it seriously myself.  It is real and it came from a bio lab in Wuhan most likely.  The point is I take responsibility for myself and watch my own ass.  Government nor anyone else will ever have my best interests at heart. 

As for the US, most aren't willing to trade in their freedoms and rights for temporary convenience of control.  The downside is that the feds bureaucracy does seem to bungle things sometimes.  As I understand it, the bird flu of 2009 was screwed up badly by Biden and Obama.  Complete incompetence.  They just got lucky it went away fast.  Had it have gone big like this, folks would have been blaming them too. 

All very true.
Just want to point out that those numbers I posted were per capita ratios.
Also, for a country so invested in rugged individualism, it's only doing middling fair as a democracy - it actually ranks behind South Korea on the World Democracy Index.
That said, I totally agree that ultimately, people are responsible for their own actions. Keep safe!

Not that it would CAUSE a pandemic, but in a pandemic, Korea would do far worse because of certain habits, while covering your mouth while coughing was some great deterrent to disease rather than what I declared it to be- Pretty much a performative gesture. Not to mention every other claim that Koreans are so incompetent they couldn't manage anything and would panic and blah blah blah.
Seriously, all those people who said that crap pre-pandemic should eff off permanently with their opinions on culture and whatnot.
Haters gonna hate. Laugh 'em off: the rest of us know they're just trolling.

That's debatable. Trump could have "listened to the scientists" (whatever that rubbish phrase means) and still gotten an outcome that was the same.

I disagree, but it's pretty hard to prove either way.
I'll just say that history has proven time and time again that it's preferable to act on good scientific data than on hunches and preferences. Not that it necessarily guarantees a happy ending, but...

The Dems and media still would have ripped him to shreds. Trump could have instituted a national mask mandate and people would bitch and moan that he was a dictator and trying to throw poor people in jail or whatever. Obama could have been president and done the exact same things and the media would have proclaimed him a hero and blamed flyover country.
I suspect that you're right. The system is broken: it's a crises that America really needs to make its number one priority. Another American civil war would be a terrible, terrible thing for the rest of us.  :sad:

As far as Asia's numbers being substantially lower, I think that tracing protocols might have some effect, but mostly there's probably a genetic element to it. The tracing protocol here is good, but it's not like the second an outbreak happens they're tracking you down and a frickin CDC team is rolling up like the SWAT van and testing you. I remember when the Itaewon outbreak happened they gave people like, days to show up, during which people were putzing around.
It's certainly possible, and there *is* a historical precedence for that having happened, but without some kind of data I would be very hesitant to support that kind of statement.
Regardless, you'll have to concede that testing and contact tracing is preferable to the lack of either when it comes to containing an outbreak.

Finally "listening to scientists" is one of the dumbest things out there. For starters, it's the kind of thing said by someone who has never been in a leadership position in a large, financially powerful institution. Anyone who has would know that "scientists" are telling leaders to do certain things every day and on top of that the scientists all have different opinions and think they should be running things. And that's just within a discipline. Then you got one kind of scientist saying the other scientists are full of shit because they aren't accounting for Factor X because their science doesn't deal with that. Add in the fact that it's a fog of war situation with incomplete information and well it's not so simple. This isn't like a Chernobyl or some Asteroid heading at the Earth. This is something that you have to listen to a lot of different experts on because it affects a lot of different fields and isn't a single confined object.

Finally, you can tell "leadership" and "listening to scientists" are horseshit points due to the lack of specificity. The vaguer the claim is, the less it is rooted in actual science and actual truth.
Hard disagree.
Listening to a scientific consensus is *always* wiser than ignoring it. I'm sure there are specific events in the past that can be used to claim the opposite, but they are a tiny minority. Data, research, debate, and peer review will beat out political expediency 99.99% of the time.  Anti-science is anti-smart.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4626

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2020, 03:25:53 pm »
lol
seriously. where ever you go on the internet it's like you can't ****** avoid US politics

someone should make an app which filters out any webpage which has US politics on it. i'd pay good money for that


  • hippo
  • Super Waygook

    • 313

    • July 16, 2011, 11:28:36 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Warning about Covid Vaccine.
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2020, 05:53:51 pm »
seriously. where ever you go on the internet it's like you can't ****** avoid US politics

someone should make an app which filters out any webpage which has US politics on it. i'd pay good money for that

There are programs to filter out keywords.  You just have keep updated what words you want to mute. 

I cannot recommend any because it depends on your setup and privacy concerns.  I agree with your sentiment about US politics since the election is over and there is not much actionable we can do about politics in countries outside of Korea.  And, as an aside, we shouldn't really get very involved in Korean politics though I am eligible to vote in local elections now.