People reacting rudely when you ask for help

...  Maybe I’m so attractive the answer is obvious?? I wonder how actual Russians answer that question...

I have; whilst wearing a Canada baseball cap.

The first expats I met at the hotel when I arrived were Russian.

I have

They must have liked the cut of your jeans

whilst wearing a Canada baseball cap.

They figured you worked for high-end, cosmopolitan clientele?

The first expats I met at the hotel when I arrived were Russian.

What kind of hotel we talkin here?

Why do people here react so unpleasantly?

Because, they consider what you are doing unpleasant. Why do you do this?

In general you do not address people unless you have had a formal introduction. Definitely you don’t approach random people in public. In the rare occasion that one finds this necessary you must follow Confucian rites of propriety; since you are the one disrupting others’ lives there is body language and words that apologize for doing so before asking your brief question. But foreigners often don’t know anything about this, and refuse to study it. Although, the other side of that is that as a foreigner you may get some leeway, but don’t expect it. This is the way it works in Seoul, at least.

Simple stuff, I learned this my first week in Korea 10yrs ago. Not sure why this question keeps getting asked, and why the answers ignore this cultural fact.

I'm one of those people that will probably do my best to ignore you...Ignoring people is my first instinct now.

Same here.

In my 3,600 days in Seoul I only recall being addressed in public by a stranger four times (excluding foreigners). Two times were by mentally unstable youths in the subway who seemed to be going around trying to English foreigners. I ignored them. The third time was by a very strange drunk ajusshi in the subway. I was not successful in ignoring him, as he just kept “hey look, I’m here, I’m talking to you.” The fourth time was by a common clothed police man at a crosswalk who I totally ignored until he tapped my shoulder “no sorry, you actually have to listen to me, see here my badge, have you seen this dirty looking foreigner?” I said no, and he bowed and walked off. But this hasn’t happened in four years now.

In my view there’s rarely a situation where a non-weirdo would be addressing strangers, so ignore is my default mode. The lack of toxic smalltalk culture is one of my favorite parts of Korea!

The reluctance to help people extends far beyond the street however. Reticence to disclose helpful information often extends to people whose duty it is to disclose helpful information, like doctors and managers. My wife is almost pathologically adverse to engaging with strangers on the street. Don’t get it and she would be hard pressed to explain it beyond, “I don’t want to bother them,” but I feel like it runs much deeper than that. That all said, I hardly think this trait is true of most Koreans, just more than you would expect in a random sample of the population.

While I have always had very good luck and responses from strangers that I have approached for help, all 3 of them. I did start with Korean, and then asked in my tarzan/jane Korean where is ___? they could recognize my limited language skills and went above and beyond to assist me. I was very grateful and thanked them in Korean and bowed accordingly. Other times I would say excuse me in Korean, then ask if they spoke english. it sort of gives them an "out" to not help.

But i HAVE to agree with the quote here on the reluctance to assist when they ARE SUPPOSED TO assist you, like my mentor teacher. I personally HATE being dependent on someone for so much, so I did my best to ask other foreigners and figure it out on my own. but there are times when you NEED a Korean to help you because they understand how "the system" works. not to mention it's super easy for them to hop on naver and look up something whereas my google search will not find it, because it's a Korean issue I'm looking to resolve.
them main one that still irks me is this.  I asked her if there was a bus app when I got here and her answer was No. (come to find out not long after that answer that indeed of course there is an app for the bus) her reasoning was that they  can't tell you exactly when the bus is coming because  it's always different because of traffic. my response was, yes, however if I had an estimate of WHEN it should be there, I can manage my time better. turns out Kakaobus is more exact on the timing than the sign AT THE BUS STOP. it's literally TO THE SECOND. but because she didn't use the bus , she didn't know about it or even care that I needed it! Nor did she take 2 minutes to look on Naver, or even ask anyone else. So basically I stopped asking her and found someone else to ask when things got more complicated. simple example but I think it illustrates my point. 

There seems to be a tendency here for people to say 'no' when they don't know or can't be bothered to think about it. E.g I asked someone telling me to use a certain teaching software if there was a breakout room function as I couldn't find it. She said no. Of course after trying to find it again I worked out where it was.

but there are times when you NEED a Korean to help you because they understand how "the system" works. not to mention it's super easy for them to hop on naver and look up something whereas my google search will not find it, because it's a Korean issue I'm looking to resolve.

Yeah, I hate asking for help, too, but you nailed it.

  Kevin, can't you figure it out?

  Like, I don't even know HOW/WHERE to even begin figuring this out? Could take me an hour? Maybe? And I might not even have the correct thing. It's a total crapshoot.

Fine, I'll do it.

*2 mins later*

  Got it. It was in 려ㅏ호제대ㅑㅓㄹ제ㅓ매ㅔ네ㅐㅓ맨ㅇ르ㅐㅡㅜ걀대ㅑ귷ㄷㅈ.

  Where?

  You know, in the 뎌ㅑㅐ랴ㅐㅈㄷ루ㅗㅈ댜ㅐㅜ잳루재댜룾댜ㅐㅜㅐㅑㅎㄷ개ㅑㅜㄷㅎㄳ.

  Yeah, you could give me 2 weeks with a computer and I wouldn't have figured that out.

And it's the same in turn. If you're going to Toronto, I'll hook you up with some good restaurants. I'M FROM THERE. Don't JUST use naver blogs to research a place that ISN'T in Korea. It'll take me 2 mins to give you ten restos .

Yeah, I hate asking for help, too, but you nailed it.

  Kevin, can't you figure it out?

  Like, I don't even know HOW/WHERE to even begin figuring this out? Could take me an hour? Maybe? And I might not even have the correct thing. It's a total crapshoot.

Fine, I'll do it.

*2 mins later*

  Got it. It was in 려ㅏ호제대ㅑㅓㄹ제ㅓ매ㅔ네ㅐㅓ맨ㅇ르ㅐㅡㅜ걀대ㅑ귷ㄷㅈ.

  Where?

  You know, in the 뎌ㅑㅐ랴ㅐㅈㄷ루ㅗㅈ댜ㅐㅜ잳루재댜룾댜ㅐㅜㅐㅑㅎㄷ개ㅑㅜㄷㅎㄳ.

  Yeah, you could give me 2 weeks with a computer and I wouldn't have figured that out.

And it's the same in turn. If you're going to Toronto, I'll hook you up with some good restaurants. I'M FROM THERE. Don't JUST use naver blogs to research a place that ISN'T in Korea. It'll take me 2 mins to give you ten restos .

100%
this just happens way too much for me. they act like you should know how to look in Naver  for a solution to your situation, but then over explain something simple like to wait for the bus here.  look, I've been riding this bus for months now, I KNOW to wait for it here.
I'm pretty sure that my school thought I suddenly became fluent in understanding Korean because in the classroom I could read the situation and know the gist of what was going on and I can read the vibe. that's when it really got difficult getting help!
Also I would ask my KT for help, or ask her about something and she would tell me to "call them".
I would ask her "do they speak English?"
her reply "No."
so please help me understand why I am calling them if we cannot communicate?????? I can't even count on 2 hands how many times she would say "call them!" (sigh) if i could call them, why am I asking you?  ToT
there are so many things i really love about this place, but this is the hardest for me to deal with.

and as far as helping someone visit my city out, I'd be happy to help you find a hotel, restaurant or a nice hike. hand me your phone so I can type it in the navigation app  or in google for you to reference later. Like you said, I know what's good in my city. if you're asking about ,say the mountains, idk, let's check.

Yeah, I hate that, too. For some of them I think it's their way of saying, "You should be able to communicate in Korean enough to do it, now."

Right or wrong, doesn't change the fact that you can't if you can't, or from the fact that a lot of people's racism really bleeds through during phone calls when you speak broken Korean. I can't tell you the number of times I've literally been screamed at AND hung up on because I didn't 100% understand what they said the first time. When I share my experiences with my handlers, they don't usually believe me, or they think it was a misunderstanding.

There was no misunderstanding. People can be assholes, even if they're Korean. That's all there is to it.

OMG!! you have got to be kidding me.
A Korean friend told me to ask her for help if I need it. So I just did. I'm looking for luggage storage at Hongik uni station. i KNOW it's there but  IS IT OPEN on the weekends or at all because of corona. if it's not open on the weekend, i need to know so I don't lug all my shit up there to find it closed. I'm countryside so taking 2 large, heavy suitcases all the way there is no small feat.

3 guesses as to what she said.
"you can call them and ask" seriously. I've just hit my wall with this.
at least she gave me a phone number. but like I can understand wtf its saying when i call.
I just wish they would stop offering to help when they don't actually WANT TO HELP. i don't offer to help people if I dont' want to.

Yeah, if it's a huge query or if you constantly nag with mundane life shit like you said, then I get it. But, it literally takes 45 secs to call and with her being a native speaker, there's ZERO confusion.

Yeah, if it's a huge query or if you constantly nag with mundane life shit like you said, then I get it. But, it literally takes 45 secs to call and with her being a native speaker, there's ZERO confusion.

I don't think that they understand how freaking COMPLICATED  stuff is now that corona has closed the most ridiculous stuff now.

for instance I cannot find ONE place in Seoul that vertoe.com stores luggage. I just tried it again and nothing comes up.

the good news is the person DID speak English, he actually texted my phone which is easier because they can use translator app if needed. but I think they don't open until 11 am and my flight is at 1:20. with it taking an hour to get to the airport this isn't going to work, but for one day. but at least i can get it up there closer and spend my last precious time finding another place.
edit: thanks for letting me rant. this is not that complicated of a situation, but figuring it out on your own, WAY TOO COMPLICATED.

While what you're saying is true about not being the best help, at the same time, a lot of people here tend to demand help (and English service) as a right, rather than a favor. Also, you get people who ask for help first, rather than trying to solve it themselves first. Finally, you have people who become "help dependent" and don't really try to get better at things.

I mean, just look at the posters on here who throw a temper tantrum the second they have to deal with a Korean website. Or the wifi freeloader we all know. Or the skinflint who won't accept a simple solution that costs 1,500 won but wants a difficult won that costs nothing and expects the person to spend 20 minutes of their life trying to save them 1,500 won (meanwhile said person constantly complains about their wage).

Are plenty of Koreans the types who can't be arsed? Sure. But as someone who transitioned from being someone who needed help to someone who can help, let me say that it's a real different experience when you're on the other side. Before you judge those who roll their eyes at helping, try being the office waygookin problem solver for 12. You'll probably do it too for some things.

I only ask for help from Korean friends when I have exhausted all my other options, meaning internet search, FB groups, kakaotalk chats.
i literally HATE asking people for help. I don't even like asking in the foreigner groups.
I just find that since corona has complicated so many things, closed stuff down, info on the internet cannot be trusted.

Before you judge those who roll their eyes at helping, try being the office waygookin problem solver for 12. You'll probably do it too for some things.

Doesn't make it right, especially when that teacher is assigned the duty to help the foreign teacher. It's part of the job they're being paid to do. If those handlers can't be bothered to make a phone call on their NETs behalf, then they're literally not doing their job.
   
   It's something like a shift manager not bothering to tell the new employee how to operate the deep fryer. Not only is it lazy and unprofessional, it's also counterproductive.
   I was a regional coordinator for a couple years in Japan, and there were a *lot* of dumb questions, but answering them was part of the job.
  Understanding that they're not necessarily dumb questions/problems to the person asking was definitely key to becoming a better coordinator! (I mean, I was still sarcastic and snarky, but I was *sympathetically* sarcastic and snarky ).

While what you're saying is true about not being the best help, at the same time, a lot of people here tend to demand help (and English service) as a right, rather than a favor. Also, you get people who ask for help first, rather than trying to solve it themselves first. Finally, you have people who become "help dependent" and don't really try to get better at things.

I mean, just look at the posters on here who throw a temper tantrum the second they have to deal with a Korean website. Or the wifi freeloader we all know. Or the skinflint who won't accept a simple solution that costs 1,500 won but wants a difficult won that costs nothing and expects the person to spend 20 minutes of their life trying to save them 1,500 won (meanwhile said person constantly complains about their wage).

Are plenty of Koreans the types who can't be arsed? Sure. But as someone who transitioned from being someone who needed help to someone who can help, let me say that it's a real different experience when you're on the other side. Before you judge those who roll their eyes at helping, try being the office waygookin problem solver for 12. You'll probably do it too for some things.

I like how you assume the worst of us while giving everyone else massive benefit of the doubt

Agreed. If it's just some random guy in the office who's unhelpful  fine you won't ask them for help again. If it's someone's specific role in their job description, that's a different matter. I guess problems arise when someone with an attitude problem, like DM,  gets assigned a role to help people unofficially or against their will and ends up resenting it.  Makes you wonder what these people are like as teachers though, considering virtually their entire job day in day out is to help people with stuff they probably should have spent more of their own time trying to get the hang of .

I like how you assume the worst of us while giving everyone else massive benefit of the doubt

HaHaHa, perfect summation of DMart's outlook. 

Agreed. If it's just some random guy in the office who's unhelpful  fine you won't ask them for help again. If it's someone's specific role in their job description, that's a different matter. I guess problems arise when someone with an attitude problem, like DM,  gets assigned a role to help people unofficially or against their will and ends up resenting it.  Makes you wonder what these people are like as teachers though, considering virtually their entire job day in day out is to help people with stuff they probably should have spent more of their own time trying to get the hang of .

Come on, do you actually believe DMart had that role?  Not for a second do I buy that.  Just trying to bolster his argument with his usual horsesh*t.  He was king of that on Dave's Cafe.  Whatever the discussion topic was he either had personal experience in the field or had a close relative that was a pilot, banker, union activist, bookie, CEO, male escort etc.  It's why he can be so entertaining and never gets the boot.  Truth is no barrier for him to hold court on any given topic. 

Well I must admit it wouldn't be a very inspiring management decision.

'Now we need someone with patience and understanding to babysit all the Waygooks in the office who can't speak Korean or use the latest phone aps. How about Martin?'